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Old 10-01-2000, 10:22 PM   #1
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Arrow Joel meets Byron again, not what you expect!!!

Hello,

Well, for any of you who have been around for long enough, you'll remember that when Byron first claimed to have a super powerful Impreza, I bashed him for a total lack of technical "backing up" to his claim. Then, as many of you will remember, there was that day that I was driving to Southern California with Shiv and we happened upon some stranded Subarus - amongst which was Byron's and Alan's (from ASR). Shiv and I talked to Byron and Alan, and after hearing what seemed to be the biggest load of crap on earth, I posted here what I thought of Byron and his million-hp Subaru (or 500 or 600 or whatever numbers you've heard over the last year or two).

Before I go any further, I still do not believe his ridiculous claims.

However, I thought I'd share with you my utter amazement at his car. Byron showed up for the Thunderhill Subaru Track Day (well, so did Alan, but after having blown 3 EJ25s, one of which was built with aftermarket rods, pistons, etc., he's on an EJ20 now and he couldn't run more than a lap or two due to severe pinging and knocking - Alan, if you read this, Shiv mentioned at the track event that he could provide you with some help on setting up the MoTeC). First, let me say that Byron's car is beautiful. It has some amazing custom body work done. Someone can fill in, but he has a sweet looking front bumper, custom aluminum and fiberglass bulged fenders, that reverse hood scoop, etc etc etc. Some really pretty rims and brembo front brakes, too.

But now, what (some of) you've been waiting for. I said (and I feared for my life) "Byron, give me a ride, please." Byron, who, for those of you who don't know, is the friendliest person on Earth, even though I still can't believe half of what comes out of his mouth, said "sure, but I need to get more gas in that case." After getting gas (sitting in his nice, supportive, comfy seats), Byron showed me what his car could do.

I take back that his motor sucks He has the stock tachometer (he uses the Wolf EMS so uses it's little display for real readings) so I couldn't see how far up the revs we were going. Huh? Yes, as we took off, the tach needle swung the entire arc and pegged itself well past 8000 rpms. I'd say, from what I could hear the engine screaming, Byron took at least one shift in the 9-10k rpms range. He says 10k rpms (but remember, I can't believe what he says without seeing it for myself). Holy ****. The boxer engine makes a sweet sound at 9k+ rpms. Unfortunately, what I noticed right away is that his cams, well, suck. I felt a strong pull right up to 7k rpms or so where the pulling ended. The car still went up the revs quickly, but it lost most of it's power by then. Quick question to Byron and he responded that peak power on the engine dyno (still not sure I believe him about dyno stuff) was at 67-6800 rpms.

So what about the turbo? Byron was running a T3/T4 (60 trim) turbo on 92 octane gas at 18 psi. No doubt, his "secret" CR is not 10:1 He wouldn't say what it was, but I'd say from the off-boost performance, it can't be that low. If I had to guess - and really, you can't make much of an educated guess from a short drive like that - I'd guess it's something like 8.5:1 - like a stock, older, EJ20 turbo. He's running a very pretty front mount intercooler, but I still think that 18 psi is already pushing the limits of that turbo setup. The intake charge temps, however, even on our full romp through what seemed to be the top of 4th (140 mph -ish he says, since 4th tops out at 150 ish at 8k rpms (see, useless above that) with his current custom dog-box gear set) never really exceeded 40 degrees. Pretty impressive.

Now the real question - how fast was it? Immediately after riding in his car, or actually during, I made my educated guess on the power he was putting out. Byron said he thought I was pretty close to right. Later consultation with his engine builder (who also showed up at the track, and whose name is JC, but who has nothing to do with JC Sports) put my guess as spot on (assuming we can trust their "dyno" experiences). I couldn't wait. I asked Shiv to show me what his Scooby could do. I remember Shiv's Scooby as the fastest Scooby I'd ever been in by a long shot. Anyone in the Bay Area who has been in Shivs car knows how fast it is. It's currently faster than it ever was before. If you haven't ridden in it in a few months, its much faster than it was before.

So how did it compare? Umm, well, something about eating my words... Umm, Shiv's car could match Byron's car to about 3k rpms. After that, no comparison. None. None, whatsoever. Byrons car would walk away from Shiv's car, much like at T-hill, Byron's car came out of the final corner before the straight-away slower than the 996 that was there. Yet, even with a lower speed entering the straights, Byron's car walked away from the 996. At 18 psi, Byron's car would walk away from Shiv's car.

Of course, Shiv has stock internals and Byron's car can rev past 9000 rpms so for you or me to emulate that would involve at least a $10k engine build...

Now, what about the rest of Byron's story? Well, I still don't believe that the little T3T4 is capable of the 36 pounds of boost that Byron claims he runs on special occasions. I still don't think the worlds best intercooler would be capable of bringing the temps of the intake charge to anything reasonable from what they'd be from that tiny turbo pumping out 36 pounds of boost. The 587 hp figure that Byron currently says his engine makes is still beyond belief for me. Oh yeah, what was my guess at 18 psi that seemed spot on with what Byron and JC claimed? I'd say the car was pumping out 400 hp on 92 octane gas. That's what they thought too. And it did walk away from a 996, which is, albeit heavier, gifted with a 420 hp engine, right? Byron's car weighs 2400 pounds, he says (and seriously needs suspension tuning - that suspension felt bad on the straights, not to mention any turns - Byron came second only to me in amount of air taken off one of the turns at the race track - mine due to failed brakes, his due to 80-120 mph (again, he says 120, I think less ) on a turn that the RX7s take at 30 mph .

Anyway, that's my report. I'm amazed at Byron's car, but I still think the 587 is a load of utter crap. We'll see, since (and here's the pressure on Byron) he says he'll be on ESPN-2 when they televise some drag event on November 12...

Joel
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Old 10-01-2000, 10:38 PM   #2
Saw Jai
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Post

yeah Byron's car is a pretty nice piece of work..I didn't get to ride in it...but saw it down the straights...that is one hella fast car (sometimes too fast as Joel mentioned about Byron going airborne and off road on turn 5)...

some pics of Byron's car can be found at: http://www.donutzracing.com/gallery/thillsubaru/ http://sawjai.freewebsites.com http://www.photoaccess.com/share/gue...4982FFEC&cb=PA
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Old 10-01-2000, 10:49 PM   #3
TMR Impreza
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Talking

I've been saying his car was fast for over a year. About time, Now I know I'm not crazy. Joe; rode in it at 18lb's, I have been in this car at 24lb's. ( BIG diffrance from 18lb's ) But no matter what, This car is fast.
www.wonderlan.com/~hksupra
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:03 PM   #4
Digital_Boy
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Hey Saw Jai...

Was that red Porsche really a GT-3 that had been imported, or was it a more pedestrian 996 that had been given a GT-3 wing?
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:05 PM   #5
christoph1371
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Talking

yeah, i'm not sure of the actual numbers but i know what i saw. his car was freakin fast at thunderhill!
i also liked those flared aluminum wheel wells.
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:09 PM   #6
Digital_Boy
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Hey TMR, how would you compare your car to his, performance wise? Think you have a chance of keeping up with a TEC-2?
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:10 PM   #7
Saw Jai
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Digital_Boy:

it was a 996 with a GT3 wing...its the one that Joel mentioned in his story that Byron walked away from...
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:15 PM   #8
socal2.2
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Hey,Joel,what a killer experience to ride in a 400+hp Subie!

If the guy tells "big fish" stories,at least he is a nice guy,and was willing to give people a ride.

For those that will probably never see or ride on a 400+hp Imp,is that Nov12 date the event date,or the date that ESPN2 is airing the show. Thanks!
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:20 PM   #9
Digital_Boy
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Ahhhhhhhhh! Well, I don't think that red one is a turbo then, is it? The 996 TT's are the 415HP/400-something lb/ft torque Porsches...

If Byron could maul a 996 turbo like that, then I'm definitely going the EJ25 forced induction route!

Edit: After looking at the pics again, the red Porsche is definitely not a 996 Turbo. It lacks the side intercooler scoops and hydraulic/fixed tail of the 996 T's.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Boy (edited October 01, 2000).]
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:33 PM   #10
rsquire
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1986 Ford RS200 White

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Joel.....

You really must get a life..

Either that or get an R34

Richard
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:39 PM   #11
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,

First, not being a drag racing type person, I dunno. There's some kind of drag racing battle, somewhere out there, I think somewhere between California and Texas! How's that for specifics? Trey Cobb is one of the biggest drag racing freaks (I mean, fans) out there, so maybe he knows what we're talking about?

As for the Porsches, there were two, a yellow and a red. Honestly, I was instructing every single session except one and a half, when I was receiving instruction (thanks Kit Wetzler (and sorry for making you need to puke ) and Joe Longworth). So I am a sorry loser and I didn't get to even go look at the porsches. Byron walked away from both of them. Alex rode in one or both, so he can say which was which car. One was a 911 and the other was something else.

In either case, Shiv thinks Shiv's Subaru is about as fast as Shiv's RX7. Byron's car is faster than Shiv's. You tell me what that means, considering some of the race car drivers out there thought Shiv's RX7 was as close to ideal a street/track car as one could have... (side note, Shiv's RX7, running on 4 spare tires, would out handle Byrons car, but Byron has yet to setup his suspension).

Joel
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:40 PM   #12
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,

Richard who has some 600 posts more than me tells me I need to get a life? Hee hee hee...

Joel

[This message has been edited by Joel Gat, 1.8L (edited October 01, 2000).]
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:53 PM   #13
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,
By the way, go to http://www.donutzracing.com/gallery/thillsubaru/set1/ to see pics of the yellow 996 tt.

Joel
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Old 10-02-2000, 12:03 AM   #14
rsquire
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1986 Ford RS200 White

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Joel

NOoooooo

You need to get a R34

The rest really suck .. Including John Felsteads' wicked wannabe

So Joel???? Should I trade "da blue car" on "da white car" ??

Richard

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Old 10-02-2000, 12:06 AM   #15
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,

Err, I don't get it? And I still want to go head to head against Byron some time in February-March-April. Instead of this pansy dyno-day that people kept talking about, let's just take it to the track and have another track day event where everyone gets to run their cars (all dialed in). Trey, Shiv, JC (and their magic energy from nothing turbos), etc.

And race gas allowed for everyone, of course

And no skylines for me - too refined. Hahahaha...

Joel
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Old 10-02-2000, 12:09 AM   #16
TMR Impreza
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2011 M3 and 328i
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Talking

Will my car with the Tech II keep up with Byrons??????? HELL NO!!! I wish. Maybe instead of running away from me he will walk away from me after the built block goes in.
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Old 10-02-2000, 12:12 AM   #17
Imprezer
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The yellow one was a stock TT and the red was a heavily modded C4 which was faster than the yellow TT as everyone said. I rode in yellow TT and Byron's car. Byron's car was faster hands, legs, head and everything else down than the yellow TT.
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Old 10-02-2000, 12:12 AM   #18
rsquire
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Quote:
Richard who has some 600 posts more than me tells me I need to get a life?
Yes ,, but you must allow for the

SS Einstatzgruppen



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Old 10-02-2000, 12:35 AM   #19
Digital_Boy
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Question

Okay... Now the big question is, how long has Byron's engine been like this? How durable is the setup for a street car? I'm in love with the idea of a, relatively, dirt cheap Porsche turbo killer. Hell, I might even go ape and get coupe and a wagon and build em both. :]
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Old 10-02-2000, 12:40 AM   #20
N/A
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Um doesn't he have to go through the CA emissions test soon? Isn't it every two years or does he yank the engine out and put in a stocker for the test? I am just curious how he passes the tailpipe test let alone the visual inspection. Anybody find out? What did he do for the drivetrain to keep from tearing it apart with that kind of power and hard launches? I ripped the ass end of the Pulsar apart with just over 300hp.
edited for clumsy fingers

[This message has been edited by N/A (edited October 02, 2000).]
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Old 10-02-2000, 12:53 AM   #21
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,

As for tranny, Byron is running a BPM dog-box, much like the ones Trey sells. He's running 1-4 dog cut and 5 normal. His ratios are such that 4th tops out around 150, 5th around 200 (he says).

As for rear end... umm, I can partially explain how Byron got air on turn 5 at t-hill... KAAZ front diff, open rear diff The car can't turn for **** right now

Joel - who has no idea how long Byron has had his car like this, but knows that it wasn't all that fast half a year ago, though byron was running "a stock L tranny" back then. And a stock clutch.
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Old 10-02-2000, 02:54 AM   #22
doripreza
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well hello
just spoke with byron he heard that someone was posting about him...
well he was right i guess.

(somebody asked..)he has been using the same bottem end for about a year now.. that much i know for sure.
i guess that makes it pretty reliable. We were both laughing because we were so suprised its been running strong through all the heavy abuse.. AWD burnouts that sort of thing..

joel he's glad you enjoyed the car..
reluctantly taking back all those nasty things you said?
well you should be shame on you for doubting hahaha..

i really couldn't vouch for any charge pipe figures or anything but
if 400hp at 92octane with 18psi then at 24psi(an possible boost amount for an t3/t04e..) with race gas..
still 580 seems unbelievable???

gino
SOHC rocker arm WOOHOO!!!
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Old 10-02-2000, 03:01 AM   #23
Imprezer
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Gino, you still can't type good.
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Old 10-02-2000, 08:21 AM   #24
rrsettgast
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Hey Joel,
I think that the 996 was being driven by a major wuss at the time. If I remember correctly, the owner allowed others to take it out for a spin (are you going to open up somebody elses 996?....well maybe YOU will), so you may not have a valid comparison on your hands. Whatever the case may be, Byron's car is definitly fast to pull on the poorly piloted 996. I think that an event like this would have put many arguments to rest a long time ago. He may not have a 10 second impreza like he claims, but he probably has the fastest one in north america to date.

Randy
"the slowest impreza in north america"
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Old 10-02-2000, 10:54 AM   #25
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,

No kidding, Randy, about this having happened a long time ago would have been very helpful. Somehow, with all the problems he's been having, I'm guessing the car wasn't running reliably enough for it to happen before now . Yeah, fastest (straightline) impreza in the US, for sure. In the world? I'll believe it when I see or feel it.

Gino, I think 24 psi is pushing the limits on the t3/t4. In fact, I still think 18 psi is pretty high for that turbo. That's why I would assume that on race gas he wouldn't get much faster since he's probably at or near a point of diminishing returns - more boost means more heat and less power gain. But, I've been proven wrong once, maybe he can do it again?

Joel
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