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Old 12-17-2003, 11:33 PM   #1
hatake
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34811
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Denver
Vehicle:
04 Baja T
Black

Default So here is the 3% over invoice

So I went to the dealer tonight to get my pre-sell order in. Guess the freight train is stuck in Nebraska or somewhere that car didn't arrive today like they expected here in Denver. So I put down a deposit for the car they don't have yet for 5MT Baja Turbo (I have a VIN now, so it is locked in). Iím posting this only because there maybe someone out there unable to get to the bottom line with the dealers. I traded in my 98 OBS with 81k on it at $5,500, a bit lower than I wanted, but I canít spend any time dealing with my old car Ė not economical. I got the vehicle with basic options at 3% over the invoice (at least so the dealer says). My objective here if for you is to be better informed. You may be able to get better discounts and rebates later, but here is the deal I got at this dealership in Denver as a pre-sell.

Vehicle cost 21,779.00
Floor mats 33.00
Dimmer mirror + compas 119.00
Splash guard 98.00
Security system upgrades 126.00
Destination charge 550.00
Advertising fee 275.00
Total vehicle cost 22,980.00

3% profit for dealer 689.40
Total vehicle price 23,669.40

Dealer Handling (new car) 299.00
Tax 683.33

Total cost to me 24,651.73
Trade-in (5,500.00)

Total cash price 19,151.73

Overall, I think they got $500~1,000 profit for my trade in (resale probably goes to $7,000), and full hold back (3%, I think). I didn't want splash guard and auto dimmer mirror with a compass (the heck is it for??), but another option is to have a new car ordered without them. Anyway, during my negotiation, I wished I had more detailed info on such upgrades. I still feel like I got ripped off, but oh well. I waited for a year, I ain't gonna wait any longer!
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Old 12-18-2003, 12:27 AM   #2
BajaNut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36905
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Kirkland, WA
Vehicle:
2014 Outback SAP
leggtnut on lgt.com

Default

Hatake, I feel your pain. I am going to be going to my local suby dealier here in Santa Curz, CA soon and either ordering my baja the way I want it, or if they have something close and they can make it they way I want it.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:04 AM   #3
SouthShoreBaja
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Member#: 50658
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: out in left field
Vehicle:
2006 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default Re: So here is the 3% over invoice

Quote:
Originally posted by hatake
I didn't want splash guard and auto dimmer mirror with a compass (the heck is it for??), but another option is to have a new car ordered without them. Anyway, during my negotiation, I wished I had more detailed info on such upgrades. I still feel like I got ripped off, but oh well. I waited for a year, I ain't gonna wait any longer!
Firstoff great info! I'm sure it will help some folks out on their ends.

The compass is irrelevant these days with GPS systems and/or computer based trip planning etc..I just don't see the utility of it, other than "hey look honey, we're headed SW"

The autodimming part of the mirror i enjoy however. With the number of SUV's and 18 wheelers out there these days, its a welcomed addition.

I just wish the heated mirror option was stateside too.
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:50 AM   #4
cadillacjake
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Member#: 49969
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Crestview, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Baja Turbo
Black Granite Pearl

Default

The compass comes in handy around town (do I turn left or right?). I love the auto-dimmer mirror, I just can't go back to the old lever-type. I also agree, heated seats and mirrors for all models (at least of the turbo) would have been nice.
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Old 12-18-2003, 02:51 PM   #5
White Knight
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Member#: 2864
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Shelton, CT 06484
Vehicle:
'08 Aspen White STi
'11 Legacy GT

Default

Advertising fees are a ripoff, why should you pay for their advertising? It's completely removeable and they shouldn't charge you for it.

Whether or not you pay full price for accessories you don't want is up to you. You can usually negotiate the "extras" into the cost but you'll always pay something for them unless they're really trying to move the car. The dealer cost info is very valuable though, grats on your new purchase!
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:13 PM   #6
White Knight
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Member#: 2864
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Shelton, CT 06484
Vehicle:
'08 Aspen White STi
'11 Legacy GT

Default

Hrmm in retrospect you got hurt in a few more palces then I thought:


"Vehicle cost 21,779.00 "

You should base %3 dealer profit off this....

"Floor mats 33.00
Dimmer mirror + compas 119.00
Splash guard 98.00
Security system upgrades 126.00 "

Paying full value for these is okay, usually hard to negotiate option prices, however, if you didn't want them and it's all they offered you, you should do what you can to reduce costs. They shouldn't push product on you that you don't want. (and make you pay for it that is)

"Destination charge 550.00 "

Can't usually avoid desitnation charges, sometimes they are negotiable but the manufacturer charges the dealer this money to deliver the car so usually you have to pay it.

"Advertising fee 275.00 "

Completely bogus charge, you just paid them for advertising the car. Vehicles are the only cars where you, the consumer, pay for advertising directly which is meant to convince you to buy it. No matter what they say, you don't have to pay this.

"Total vehicle cost 22,980.00 "

This is not total cost, your previous cost was actual cost. This is price with options and ad fee... options and ad fees are all sold at a profit (not cost).

"3% profit for dealer 689.40
Total vehicle price 23,669.40 "

See above.

"Dealer Handling (new car) 299.00 "

Doh, you just paid them to wash, wax, and vacuum your car... something i'd argue they should do anyway as a a service to you. 30 minutes of work for $300 bucks.. worst case you tell them not to wash/wax it and not to charge you the fee (you can get it detailed for much cheaper elsewhere)

"Tax 683.33 "

No biggie, not getting out of this one

"Total cost to me 24,651.73 "

MSRP on the vehicle is 24,995. Dealer cost is 21,779.00 as you said, you didn't get taken to the cleaners but you did pay about $1000 in stuff you didn't need to pay (add fee, dealer handling, "cost" caluclation based on w/options etc).

"Trade-in (5,500.00)"

Dunno what you traded it, that's not a bad value for a car worth about $8-9k retail as a used car with whatever mileage/wear you had.

"Total cash price 19,151.73 "

Even with all my bickering, That's still a good price for a quality vehicle that should last several years. I love Subaru's because you can get a solid car for around $20g's that performs as well as cars worth more than $10g's more. Grats!
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Old 12-18-2003, 04:52 PM   #7
hatake
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34811
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Denver
Vehicle:
04 Baja T
Black

Default

I knew they got me!!

I was thinkng to push back the dealer handling charge, but thought - oh, that plastic stip removal, buff it, check all fluid level (should be full, I guess) and such myself at the dealership - with my tool, maybe - that's a PITA, what the heck. Or handling strictly means cosmetic clean-up, rather than real check up?

All options are at cost, and I got suckered (couldn't argue decisively to exclude those items from their "invoice" price). Maybe I should've been tough, but I thought - oh, I got them at cost anyway, what the heck.

This non refundable deposit is cancellable if they fail to deliver the vehicle to me by Dec 31. Don't think that will be the case as I already have a VIN, but I didn't want to take a chance. I think for a nifty turbo Legacy (with a bed), this is a good purchase...
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Old 12-18-2003, 04:53 PM   #8
SouthShoreBaja
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 50658
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: out in left field
Vehicle:
2006 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Interesting stuff, yellow knight. Is it your impression from experience and friends that a dealer will balk at you not wanting to pay these(ad fee, handling)? Have you then had to go to another dealer?

I've been as ignorant to this as most i guess.

Langston, any thoughts on this?
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Old 12-18-2003, 05:44 PM   #9
White Knight
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2864
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Shelton, CT 06484
Vehicle:
'08 Aspen White STi
'11 Legacy GT

Default

Actually depends on the dealer. If you're in the market for a new car I highly recommend reading this website:

www.carbuyingtips.com

It's a bit disorganized but does a fabulous job explaining to you the business of car sales, what goes on, how dealerships make money and what should be considered "fair".

As for refusing to pay, hey, car buying is all about the art of negotiation. Always valuable to remember that the dealer does not "Have" to sell you the car. Likewise you do not "have" to buy it. Some dealers may refuse to remove the fees, you can refuse to buy it. If they really want to sell the car (remember dealers get incentives not for individual sales, but total cars moved) they'll remove the fees. Up to you At the very least you are doing yourself a serious disservice if you do not get at least two quotes on the exact same model car (sans options) from two different dealers. Never, ever, buy a car on your first talk with a dealer, no matter how much you want one or whether or not the one you want is on the lot. At least come in with a quote from another place.

What's impressive about this purchase is that he was able to obtain the actual "Dealer Cost" value of the car. Which is NOT 'invoice' price. That's better explained at the aforementioned website. I had been unsuccesful so far in finding Dealer Cost for a Turbo Baja. So while a bit of money was lost with the fees, a lot was saved by using this value as the base of the negotiation.

I'd should note that the aforementioned site is not always well loved by car dealerships (there are lots of posted letter responses from very angry car dealers, several positive ones too). The business of car sales is far more complicated then buying a box of Wheaties at the local grocery store. Not all car dealerships are out to take you to the cleaners, most in fact are respectable and friendly. But they ARE in the business of making money, they deserve to make a profit, you deserve not to be ripped off but you don't deserve a car at a loss to the dealer.
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Old 01-02-2004, 01:47 PM   #10
VGN WRX
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Member#: 51744
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
Platinum Silver

Default

Did anyone else go through AAA? I did a ton of shopping around to find a good price and ended up using AAA and paid $300 over invoice (with NO charge for extras, destination, etc.). Sale price on my '04 WRX Wagon with short-throw, auto dimming mirror and arm rest extention was $22,356. Then sales tax, etc. I highly recommend it. We did everything over email until I went in for the final test drive and to pay.
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