Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday December 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Archives > NASIOC Archives > General Forum Archive

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2000, 08:34 PM   #1
Overtime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1346
Join Date: Apr 2000
Smile Anyone hit 200+ hp sans turbo yet? (on topic!)

I am looking into the long term and seeing an N/A set up for at least a year or two. I think that with the torque of the 2.5l and the additional hp of bolt on upgrades combined with suspension goodies would make my car a pretty solid ride (though it's fun already!).

Anyway, back to the mods...here's what I've gotten from all the bolt-ons. Feel free to correct me.

4-10 hp from Catback/muffler with custom 2.25" tubing (varies on each muffler/catback)

5-12 from intake (lots of viewpoints here...any help?)

2-3 from K&N filter

20 from VTEC stickers (just kidding )

5-6 from UD pulley

Added up (except the VTEC stickers) we're looking at 180-190 hp put out (not at the wheels necessarily). Assuming you add in the "extras" like fuel compressor/chip/ITC/etc. in there you still only get about 200 hp. Has anyone passed the 200 hp mark with a naturally aspirated Impreza? If so, how'd you do it? I am very interested.

Thanks in advance...oh, and here's a bonus quote:

My Passenger after a good ride: "Do you always drive like a race car driver?"

Me: "Only on the curves."

I thought you all would enjoy that. Gotta love AWD.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Overtime is offline  
Old 05-24-2000, 09:00 PM   #2
Hucker
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1272
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Post

I think alot of people are over the 200HP mark keeping everything N/A. As its been said before a guy on the Toronto board is pushing close to 230HP. His main mods include, SAFC, cat back, headers and also a cam upgrade. This thread will probably get huge. but yeah alot of people are close to, if not over the 200HP mark
Hucker is offline  
Old 05-24-2000, 09:08 PM   #3
shiv
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 607
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Post

230hp? Very unlikely. Anyone actually verify these numbers on a dyno or are they guessing.

shiv

[This message has been edited by shiv (edited May 24, 2000).]
shiv is offline  
Old 05-24-2000, 09:10 PM   #4
Gambit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The meeting place
Post

That was Colman. But not it's not 230hp. has problems with his Cams right now. Poor boie. Overtime I think u are really optimistic at the gains.
Gambit is offline  
Old 05-24-2000, 09:17 PM   #5
Overtime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1346
Join Date: Apr 2000
Exclamation

Let me clarify so this thread doesn't get into a "did not" "did too" debate.

1) Has anyone ever reached 200+ hp N/A with some sort of evidence to prove it? I trust that the Toronto guy has gone past 200, but 230 seems a stretch. Not to say it couldn't happen of course.

2) If so, how'd you do it? What mods did it take?

3) Are there any proven figures on bolt on equipment? Like I said, anything you've got I'll take in terms of evidence. I'm just trying to sort through the "weird math" some people are using. Catback and an intake doesn't mean you get 190 hp...or does it? Who has the dyno/G-tech/quarter mile computations to prove it?

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to learning a lot. Good night everyone.
Overtime is offline  
Old 05-24-2000, 09:19 PM   #6
cvalle-sd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 420
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: The LBC, CA, USA
Vehicle:
2001 Cr-V
Silver

Arrow

I think im in the neighborhood, 195-205 (of course every schmartenheimer will want to know exactly how I know that ) , but I don't really see much room above that without replacing cams - there aren't any available, are there? And as far as I've heard, the Borlas were a flop. I sometimes think about raising the comp. ratio, shaving heads, etc - but then I snap out of it. At my current power level, not only am I NEARLY satisfied with the power, I am also stoked that I didn't have to take out separate loans to do it. Once I get my AGXes - All I have to wrestle with is the "turbo question"

ps - how much power did porsche get out the 944 engine - and how?

ps - how much power does the 1st gen M3 make?

K&N cone, no 2nd filter torquemasters, Pulley, AFC, ITC, Flowmaster.


[This message has been edited by cvalle-sd (edited May 24, 2000).]
cvalle-sd is offline  
Old 05-24-2000, 11:38 PM   #7
John2.5RS
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1140
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2013 Ecoboost'd F150
Grey

Smile

I think if you use a good fuel management like the TEC-II (if it's out yet) and all of your bolt-ons you might get it up there but I think that 230 is a little far fetched. Shiv is probably the best source for how much you can get out of N/A. I don't think he's done tuning it, though. I could be wrong.
John2.5RS is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 05:46 AM   #8
FatChanceTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 274
Join Date: Sep 1999
Post

There were four different versions of the 944 N/A engine if I recall correctly.

Up until 1987 (I think) it was 2.5L and about 147 HP. I had one of these (1986 model). It was great fun.

Eventually displacement was increased to 2.7 liters, which I think bumped output to the 160's neighborhood.

these were both 8V engines.

There was also the 16V version of this engine which came out in the late 80's. I dont have the literature with me to quote HP though. (Pilot will probably know this)

Finally, my dream car, the 968, which bumped displacement to 3.0L and I believe was rated at a wonderful 236bhp.

Pilot seems to be the 944 guru on this board, Im sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

Ryan
FatChanceTi is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 06:49 AM   #9
HRE | giulio
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 481
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NY USA
Talking

I'd be happy as a pig in ***** to get 230hp from NA
I think i may be close to 200hp. I have a 98, leaning back with the AFC can produce 7-14+ hp (so I've heard). I dont know the 'real' number, but everyone definitely feels it in my car.
Other mods:
- Turn3 Cold Air Intake w/ air horn & K&N Filter (@ 10hp, 10 FtLbs)
- UD pulley
Soon:
- ACT clutch
- Stromung Track pipe for 98RS (+6hp)
- headers
- Muffler
Maybe:
- Cams, major engine work

PS, my buddy's got a GtechPro. Will do some runs this weekend.

[This message has been edited by giulio (edited May 25, 2000).]
HRE | giulio is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 09:58 AM   #10
FatChanceTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 274
Join Date: Sep 1999
Post

giulio,

you really see 7-14HP (est) on your 98 just by leaning out with the S-AFC?

holy cow. Maybe my 98 needs one now. booooooooooo!

Ryan
FatChanceTi is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 10:18 AM   #11
Marius
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: MI
Cool

Hey Ryan!
You gonna need those extra hp....
:-P
Marius
99 RS blue
faster anyways
Marius is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 10:21 AM   #12
boxerman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 644
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hoboken, NJ, USA
Post

230hp from 2.5 liters is certainly not far fetched. Its only 92hp/liter. I don't think it could be done strictly with bolt ons and fuel management however.(unless you consider cams bolt ons)

For example a 2.7liter 911 motor is easily capable of putting out 250HP with Carburators. Of course the quality of the material used in Porsche motors is very high. I have been told by many tech's that, with the exception of early T engines (bottom of the line, non-counterweighted crank and single valvesprings)all 911 engines are capable of spinning to 8000RPM.

Hypothetically, I think bringing compression up to 10.5/1 combined with a cam, intake and exhaust designed to produce peak power around 6300RPM will get you very close.

I think cams, headers, exhaust and machine work such as P&P, bigger valves, port matched manifolds, balanced internals (tolerances may already be very good although even Porshes benefit from balancing and matching) combined with an engine management system that can take advantages of the increased VE get you there.

But we are talking over 5g worth of work when all is said and done.
boxerman is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 10:51 AM   #13
Hucker
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1272
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Post

Sorry my mistake, colman is still having probs with the ECU, has he got the ECU Link installed yet?? I think once its running the way it should be, 230hp isn't unrealistic, with the mods he has.
Hucker is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 10:59 AM   #14
FatChanceTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 274
Join Date: Sep 1999
Post

oh man, frank is bringin' the smack.

I'd better show up on monday........

FatChanceTi is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 11:27 AM   #15
Gambit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The meeting place
Post

Spoke to him recently at a meet. He has sent the cam back to Belgium in exchange for some waffles. Err.... no I meant to have it replaced with a less aggressive cam I believe. So we'll see in a few months' time.
Gambit is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 11:38 AM   #16
Eric
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Impretza 2.5
silver

Post

This one is simple.

PAECO

320+ HP DOHC RACING ENGINE

ALL N/A

Call them if you want serious N/A HP gains.
they will sell you several different cam sets for the DOHC and SOHC 2.5L and all the goodies to go along with it. In fact, you can just get a whole engine setup from them.

Eric
Silver 99 RS
Eric is offline  
Old 05-25-2000, 12:44 PM   #17
Catfish
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1322
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Silicon Valley
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Sedan
72 Datsun 240Z

Post

I keep asking this but no one ever seems to answer. What are the stock intake/exhaust valve sizes on the 2.5L? This information is essential to cam design and I really need it. Can anyone help me out here?

Thanks,
Dave
Catfish is offline  
Old 05-26-2000, 01:24 AM   #18
Eric
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Impretza 2.5
silver

Post

Wait, are you talking about dimensions of the cam itself or of the valve.

My shop manual has cam info, but I couldnt find and numbers on the valves. Its the cam heights that I can give you. Email me privately.

Eric
Silver 99 RS
Eric is offline  
Old 05-26-2000, 06:42 AM   #19
HRE | giulio
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 481
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NY USA
Post

Eric, that paeco engine sounds cool. But one rip down the track and you gotta rebuild it. I dont think anyone here wants that.

Ryan, I'm going to try and do some Gtech runs this weekend.
HRE | giulio is offline  
Old 05-26-2000, 05:21 PM   #20
Aspen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 145
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: The Windy City
Vehicle:
Banned to
Housework for Summer

Post

I agree with Guilio.
All the four cylinder NA touring cars I've seen creating 300hp+ needed to be rebuilt every season or sooner. Partly due to the high compression and high rpm duty the engine sees.

I also found this out when I tried ordering an N1 race engine package from Cali. In the information packet, stated the rebuild schedules of the engine.

Also,
I've yet to see a 300 hp NA 4cylinder engine that has good street manners(good idle, broad torque/hp band, cool running engine, etc.)

BTW,
On the topic of Broad HP/torque band and good idle, It would be cool to see Subaru come out with variable timing for the boxer engines. I'm not sure if it can be done correctly on a boxer engine but everyone else is implementing this technology to squeeze some more horses, so why can't Subaru? This would definitely benefit us the most since our engines are 2.5l of displacement. Examples of Variable Valve Timing: VVTI- Toyota, Mivec - Mitsubishi, Vanos - BMW, VTEC - Honda, and a couple others which I can't remember the names of.

Any thoughts?
Aspen is offline  
Old 05-26-2000, 05:54 PM   #21
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Post

Oh hell yeah! I wanna put big VTEC stickers all over my RS!!

Seriously though, when I was first explained the principles behind VTEC (and still to this day) I thought it was a really great idea. Of course, right now I'm getting wacky thoughts in my head about creating a method of changing the cam (duration mainly) without changing the actual cams. I need a few pics of the cam setup on a MY99 or MY00 motor to figure it out though, anyone got a few?
8Complex is offline  
Old 05-26-2000, 06:19 PM   #22
MPREZYA
SCIC
Moderator
 
Member#: 85
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: www.themonkeystrunk.com
Post

Aspen they already have on their Fleet-X concept car. 178 HP 2.0L in a legacy wagon platform that weighs 30% lighter through the use of composites. This engine was also rumored to be in the new impreza(I would take it if thye reduced the impreza's weight by 30% @2900-30%= @2100 lbs sweet Almost Lotus Elise 190 sweet.)
(\/\/)
[___]
:Rice:
.Rich.
MPREZYA is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any WRX hit 200,000 miles on the odometer yet? plunk10 Impreza Forum 4 05-25-2006 04:05 AM
Anyone drop in a Baja turbo yet? Solomon Legacy Forum 3 01-16-2004 12:52 AM
Anyone down for a San Francisco meet on Friday 11/22? MMBOOST Bay Area Impreza Club Forum -- BAIC 14 11-23-2002 01:47 PM
Anyone try the new Greddy turbo yet ??? alfriedesq Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 0 08-10-2002 03:21 AM
Anyone hit with that new virus yet? Big_Hitter Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 15 12-05-2001 11:19 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.