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Old 12-23-2003, 09:17 PM   #1
Odin
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Default Would the world be better off if....

...everyone drove a manual. I just started to drive a manual again and I feel like people are trying to screw me? What does the subaru community think? Oh, my daily commute go's from about 20 min. no traffic to an hour with so I get a nice chance to practice with 1st gear.
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Old 12-23-2003, 09:26 PM   #2
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i have to say - yes - maybe then people would stay off my butt when i'm stopped on a hill .
this is something which doesn't bother me on dry or even wet pavement, but when it's snowy .....

we usually try to keep one of each AT/MT

for the above-mentioned reason i'm more comfortable driving an auto in 6+ inches of snow
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Old 12-23-2003, 10:27 PM   #3
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im from alaska, so i like u in pennsylvania, get my fair share of snow
but i still would much rather have a manual than an auto in any level of snow, i feel more in control
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Old 12-24-2003, 10:43 AM   #4
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Yes it would! Everyone I know who drives close/stops close to people in traffic once they start driving manual they stop doing that.
Note I have only had 1 car and 1 transportation that where automatic. 4 cars that where manual. Autos suck!
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Old 12-24-2003, 11:27 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by hpracingwrx
im from alaska, so i like u in pennsylvania, get my fair share of snow
but i still would much rather have a manual than an auto in any level of snow, i feel more in control

Yes, you can use a little torque braking to feel your way around!!
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Old 12-24-2003, 11:49 AM   #6
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most of our friends and family think we're insane - i've been tempted to post a thread to see how many people can top our car ownership record of 13 cars in 12 years (the wrx is no. 13 and i'm praying it's not a jinx - so far, so good). We've definatley favored the m/t with a 9/4 ratio. Of those 3 are rare, if even available in a stick ('90 Audi V8, '95 Explorer & '02 Trailblazer). The outback was a/t by default, as we were looking for a newer/used AWD to replace the Audi and the only ones we found were autos.

but i do have one concern about some m/t drivers - a moment of road rage that i was guilty of: last summer after having picked up my son from school, i slowed down approaching a red light - from out of nowhere a woman in a new saab (yuck) turbo cuts me off. this was annoying but....... the light turns green and she stalls - not once, but twice!!!! and, as an m/t driver, i'm usually very sympathetic when another driver has an error in judgement, but i was soooooo mad at the audacity of this women that i lacked all compassion and sat behind her blaring my horn.
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Old 12-24-2003, 12:14 PM   #7
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It's actually proven that manual transmission is safer to drive in the snow. Personally, I didn't even touch an automatic until two years after I learned how to drive. It actually took me a long time to change my method of actually putting the car into "Park" before turning it off.

And about the drivers who get right up on your tail on hills when you're stopped.... it's why Subarus have the "Hill Holder". Georgeous invention. Should be standard on all manual transmission vehicles...
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Old 12-24-2003, 12:27 PM   #8
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I never roll back on hills, in a normal FWD car, no matter the weather. At least no more than an inch or so.

How? Use the handbrake if feeling uneasy, and rev it up higher while releasing clutch more aggressively than usual.

The handbrake can be held until one feels the wheels trying to pull the car forward, then one lets go of it = not the slightest rollback.
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Old 12-24-2003, 01:31 PM   #9
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I find a little heel-toe action on the brake and accelerator prevents rollback. Of course, if you're driving a vehicle whose pedals don't line up conveniently for it, then it becomes difficult. My nephew has a relatively new F-150 with a manual, and the brake and accelerator are too far apart for my feet, and the parking brake isn't convenient to use, so it's a bit more challenging.
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Old 12-24-2003, 01:38 PM   #10
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I think it would be better since it's difficult to eat or talk on a cell phone when driving manual transmission...too many people are poor drivers already on auto and shouldn't be eating or talking on cells
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Old 12-24-2003, 01:49 PM   #11
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Question

Quote:
Originally posted by Big_Mikey99
It's actually proven that manual transmission is safer to drive in the snow.
Not that I necessarily disagree with the concept, but how does one prove that manual transmissions are safer to drive in the snow?
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Old 12-24-2003, 01:49 PM   #12
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Actually, I often hear of north-americans (never anyone else so far) using the "have a free hand to do other things with" argument in favour for automatics.

One can even find advice-articles about it on www.epinions.com. Moms saying how great it is to be able to reach over and search for toys and not have to stop, etc. One would think they are joking, but they aren't.
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Old 12-24-2003, 01:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Not that I necessarily disagree with the concept, but how does one prove that manual transmissions are safer to drive in the snow?
Snow, ice, slush - all slippery surfaces. Not snow exclusively.

It is considered safer because one may use engine braking, and more importantly, one has easy access to a pedal that directly disconnects the engine to the driving wheel - which makes a big difference in correcting skids (which we can assume to happen more frequently on slippery surfaces).
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Old 12-24-2003, 04:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikko
Snow, ice, slush - all slippery surfaces. Not snow exclusively.

It is considered safer because one may use engine braking, and more importantly, one has easy access to a pedal that directly disconnects the engine to the driving wheel - which makes a big difference in correcting skids (which we can assume to happen more frequently on slippery surfaces).

Why does EVERY manual driver that brings up snow not realize that you can engine brake with an auto. Cripes! I have seen it a million times here. Yes I can hold first or second, and yes I can engine brake.

And I don't think anything has been proven. Try driving for an hour on an extreemly slippery hill ridden snow covered road full of bumper to bumper traffic. I don't think a manual would have been a better choise in that situation I was in.

Last edited by Rev; 12-24-2003 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 12-24-2003, 04:27 PM   #15
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Yes, I believe that if everyone who is physically able drove a manual we would all be better off. Everyone would pay closer attention to driving, following distances will increase (ie less tailgating). Most importantly, more hours of driver training will be needed for one to get a driver's license. No longer will Americans be able to get their licenses out of a Cracker Jacks box.

BTW, a skilled manual driver can eat or yap of the phone just as easily as an automatic driver
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Old 12-24-2003, 04:32 PM   #16
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The ironic thing about this thread is that the manual drivers are the ones with the problem (and are really the biggest part of the problem) when someone gets too close on a hill. Eliminating all the manual drivers would more efficiently solve the problem.
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Old 12-24-2003, 04:35 PM   #17
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My dad is a mechanic and he swears by manuals. I've had 6 cars so far and none of them have been auto. Right now in my house there are 0 auto cars. I even got my g/f to start driving a manual, from there her mom decided to get another manual car.
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Old 12-24-2003, 04:55 PM   #18
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Almost every car you see in European cities have a manual tranny......They are cheaper and more reliable with less maintenance. Also, when you park in Europe you actually use your bumbers and "nudge" cars out of the way. Automatics would not fair well.....
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Old 12-24-2003, 05:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Why does EVERY manual driver that brings up snow not realize that you can engine brake with an auto.
How well does it work? Can you slow down to walking speed without the use of brakes rather quickly in an auto, through engine braking alone?

About 85% of cars are manual in Europe. Possibly even more in Sweden. About 40% of the cars are diesel in Europe while they are not nearly as popular in Sweden, though.

I took the test in manual - have to do it, otherwise you can't drive manual vehicles legally, the license would only apply for auto. But manual license covers auto also.

I have yet to try driving an auto. I don't know anyone who owns one. Only ever sat in some dealers that had some auto vehicles (seems the dealers are keen to sell automatics for some reason, probably because they cost more).
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Old 12-24-2003, 05:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big_Mikey99
it's why Subarus have the "Hill Holder". Georgeous invention. Should be standard on all manual transmission vehicles...
Most Subies don't have it any more; I wish they would bring it back.

I agree it would be better if there were no ATs. A lot of clueless people would not be able to drive at all.
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Old 12-24-2003, 07:21 PM   #21
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the trans of the car is not the problem...its the drivers...
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Old 12-24-2003, 07:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikko
How well does it work? Can you slow down to walking speed without the use of brakes rather quickly in an auto, through engine braking alone?
You can, but the actual downshifts themselves are not very smooth. Imagine downshifting a manual tranny and letting the clutch out fairly quickly without revmatching. That's what downshifting an auto feels like if you do mid to high RPMs. (You can 'revmatch' an auto to make downshifts smoother, however).

It's possible that downshifting an auto [without revmatching] can put enough of a shock through the drivetrain that you upset the balance of the car. However, you also run this risk with a MT and a poor driver.

I don't understand why people are so afraid to use their brakes in the snow. I thought this was what ABS was designed for? As with everything, you have to be smooth with your inputs. Not slamming on your brakes in the snow is a good way to avoid disaster, but this doesn't mean you should avoid the use of brakes altogether.
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Old 12-24-2003, 07:41 PM   #23
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If the world had no ATs, it's true that a lot of "clueless drivers" would not be able to drive at all. Neither would many physically disabled drivers. Something to consider.

My WRX comes with a "hill holder". It's called a clutch. True, using it too often can accelerate wear, but in an emergency I can take off without rolling back by holding the car with the clutch for that split second it takes for me to move my foot from the brake to the gas.

Come to think of it, my WRX comes with another "hill holder". It's called the handbrake.
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Old 12-25-2003, 04:16 AM   #24
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while theoretically a manual might be better off... do keep in mind that most drivers are idiots already. adding a clutch and gear shifter in along with eating and talking on the cell phone might be doable (though safe is still questionable) for a skilled driver, it would probably spell disaster for the general public which is made up primarily of completely UN-skilled drivers.

While a manual may be better for an experienced person, it's not for the average joe schmoe. I mean, there are still people out there that use two feet to drive an automatic... left foot braking while adding gas. Throw in a clutch and you'll probably have people that can't get started from a stop or confuse the gas and brake even more...

Just remember, most people are dumb.
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Old 12-25-2003, 04:18 AM   #25
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I think alot of people may not be PHYSICALLY or MENTALLY capable of driving a stick. Take my dad for istance... 0 hand-eye coordination! Cant drive a car smoothly if his life depended on it... Its not like he cant drive either, he can, and he needs to, but he just sucks

That being said, maybe he WOULD be more coordinated if he was forced to learn when he first learned how to drive. But who knows...
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