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Old 09-30-2000, 09:16 AM   #1
JC
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Unhappy I think its about time I posted this story...

Keep in mind this was in my '93 Legacy. Anyway I've been a little embaressed to tell this story up to now, but the what the hell.

For anyone who's been the Lake Tahoe, this happened on hwy 28 going from Incline Village to hwy 50. For those who don't this is a windy two lane road that lasts about 10 miles or so. I drive this road alot so I know it well. It was fairly early in the morning, I had just gotten on the road and was stuck behind a slow car going 40mph or so (the limit is 45) and a black Jeep Wrangler with tires slightly sticking out of the fenders, but no lift. So the slow car pulls over finally and I get ready to pass the Jeep (on a double yellow mind you) because I usually go ~65mph. The Jeep just takes off. He's haulin' ass going 75mph-80mph. Being only 16 and cocky at the time I decide to keep up. Through the first set of 35mph turns I held my ground. My heart was literally pounding and my car's steering was getting light. After about 2 min of this we got to the S-Turn. He slowed down to 75mph and I matched pace. After the first part of the turn my car got "upset" and squirelly. I let off, tapped the brakes hit the next turn at 65 or so, and barely made it through. He on the other hand made it through just fine. We parted ways at hwy 50 and that was the last time I saw the Jeep. So there ya go, without making it *too* long, the story of me get my a$$ handed to me by a Wrangler in the twisties.

edit: it was a YJ

[This message has been edited by JC (edited September 30, 2000).]
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:32 AM   #2
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hey man, tjhose things aren't that bad. my buddy used to have an 88 YJ with the sport suspension. That thing handled tight. not what you'd expect from one of them
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:37 AM   #3
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We used to own a '90 Laredo. It was a great little vehicle. Too bad my parents sold it.
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:42 AM   #4
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i still have another buddy who's got a 90 laredo. The thing is costing him a ton to keep runing (new engine, rebuilt carb, ewtc..) but a fun thing, defenitely
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Old 09-30-2000, 02:06 PM   #5
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Are you saying I'm a bad driver? I take offense to that. My former car did not handle that well. AWD or not it was still a family sedan and IT got bested by a Wrangler.
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:00 PM   #6
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Smile

Um, no. I was saying I was a bad driver.

Carlos Sainz could pull away from me on a twisty road if he was driving a Yugo and I was driving a 22B.

Maybe Carlos was driving the Jeep...
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:02 PM   #7
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I don't think anyone was calling you a bad driver, just that the person in the YJ was likely a better driver.
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:15 PM   #8
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I think you guys are just in denial. I've driven this road at least 50 times for one. I knew my car like the back of my hand for two. I have pushed it to and beyond its limits before including on that road. The simple fact is that his Jeep handled better.
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:28 PM   #9
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I"m just grabbing at straws here, but.....maybe YOUR in denial he he
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:31 PM   #10
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You don't even have a car.
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Old 09-30-2000, 09:35 PM   #11
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You did mention you were 16 at the time right?? Well let me tell you, I am a much better driver now than I was at 16. I think that probably goes for a majority of the people here.

Regardless of how many times you may have driven the road, if your technique is poor (i.e. inexperienced), you will not be able to coax the limits of any car.

Not tryin' to smack you down or anything, but the reality of the story is you lost. "Sometimes you get the bull and sometimes you get the horn"
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Old 10-01-2000, 12:34 AM   #12
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Sounds like your '93 Legacy is in need of some new shock/springs and some better tires!

It's hard to imagine a high center of gravity short wheelbase vehicle kicking butt in the twisties.

JD

edit - language. changed a$$ to butt. Don't mean to offend any sensitive eyes with my foul typing.

[This message has been edited by T-WRX (edited September 30, 2000).]
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Old 10-01-2000, 12:58 AM   #13
Jon Bogert
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Sounds like the Jeep driver knew what he was doing. A great driver in an OK vehicle will beat an OK driver in a great vehicle any day.

I remember when I was younger I had a GTI and I thought I was hot *****. I was driving down the Saw Mill Parkway in NY and was passed by a Grand Cherokee. I tried to stay with it, but the Jeep driver was a lot better than I was, and he drove away easily. I've since owned a Cherokee, and I have a lot of respect for anybody who can four-wheel drift one at 80 mph.

Further evidence: the Karl Scheible VW Beetle rally car. He really DID beat 300 HP Talons with that 135HP Beetle. It's the driver.
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Old 10-01-2000, 05:11 AM   #14
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I'm having trouble comprehending the fact that, providing both drivers were at least of equal skill, a Jeep Wrangler can out-handle a Subaru Legacy, even if it was a FWD Legacy. You put the blame on the Legacy being a "family sedan"? Not for nothing but a Jeep Wrangler isn't exactly a sports car.

Prodrive obviously felt the basic Legacy street car was a good enough platform to build a all-out Group A World Rally Car from. Maybe they should have taken the Wrangler instead?
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Old 10-01-2000, 05:45 AM   #15
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First off my Legacy was AWD. Second prodrive changed the suspension on the Legacy for a reason. What I meant by family sedan is that the suspension tuning is geared more towards ride than handling.
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Old 10-01-2000, 06:09 AM   #16
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hey maybe it was a bad dream huh. but jeep does kick ass. you said he had diffferent tires that sticked out. that helps alot. you should try it. then sit patiently and wait for him to come back. ask for a rematch. oh and you didn't tell when this race was. was it a 2o0O jeep to your 93 subie?

aloha
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Old 10-01-2000, 07:58 AM   #17
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They made YJs from 1987-1995, with the only major change being the introduction of fuel injection in 91. It was a base model so its hard to date, I would guess it was a later one maybe 92 or so. This happenend about a year ago. I can remember it though because I like telling it to my friends when they tell me I'm gonna die because I drive too fast.

Just a fast Jeep model FAQ:

CJ: 1945-1986 (most of the round headlight civy Jeeps)
YJ: 1987-1995 (square headlight Wrangler)
TJ: 1997-present (current round headlight wrangler)
ZJ: 1993-1999 (previous gen Grand Cherokee)
WJ: 2000-present (current gen Grand Cherokee)
SJ: 1962-1991 (full size Jeeps, like mine )
XJ: 1984-present (cherokee)
MJ: 1986-1992 (Comanche)

Those are the more popular Jeeps, just FYI.

[This message has been edited by JC (edited October 01, 2000).]
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:47 AM   #18
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Sport suspension in a jeep? Mine has leaf springs, not very sporty but extremely firm.

I have autocrossed my jeep at my college (not SCCA sanctioned). I only got one run and I didn't go all out (I like to stay wheels down). It was my first autocross ever, but I managed to have a better time than most others. Unfortunately they had more runs to improve, and they did. I would up 16th out of 20.
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/sports...html/oct17.htm

Moral of the story: Jeeps are not race cars, but they are not completely inept.
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Old 10-01-2000, 11:51 AM   #19
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Talking

BTW, that is the autocross where this happened:



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Old 10-01-2000, 08:12 PM   #20
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What is that person trying to prove?
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Old 10-01-2000, 08:45 PM   #21
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SCCA rules say that passenger must keep his arms inside at all times!!

Larry www.ImprezaRS.com
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Old 10-02-2000, 06:28 AM   #22
Technic
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As I said, it wasn't a SCCA event (I was driving a wrangler)

I think he was trying to prove that avis rental vans can be fun to autocross too. Just add some yellow tape and listen to the tires roar.
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