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Old 04-06-2007, 02:11 PM   #251
Jeremy05sti
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haha.....no no no we all know boost creep can't not be fixed with em however em is a step in the right direction.....still having the same problem with boost creep afterwards port the stock IWG or buy an after market EWG. Thats pretty much all there is to it....
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Old 04-06-2007, 03:33 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXBrakes View Post
BTW

07 STi has a VF-43 - which apparantly has a larger internal wastegate....

Could that be the ticket?? Anyone crash one yet?....or actually - go to a larger one?
I will say that I think i was the first one here to post a 'OMG I GOT Boostcreep on my new 07 STI Limited' . I threw a Catless DP and a Catback on it the 2nd day I had it. I had an 05 STI w/ a catted DP without issues...

My initial response to the flood of 'search noobie' responses I received was basically "WTF 2 years later they haven't fixed/upgraded this *****!". I'm Glad to see that maybe they have....

I got that 07 ECU reflash about a month ago, still running catless TBE with no other mods. I haven't been able to make it creep once (and I've been trying) since the reflash.
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:49 AM   #253
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Giving this thread a good old bump because people still do not understand that boost creep cannot be tuned out.
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:27 AM   #254
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^^^That's because SOOOOOOOO many people think boost creep and boost spike from lack of tuning/improper tuning of the WGDC are the same thing.

If people would learn the damn difference 98% of "I have boost creep" threads would die.


****see below for yet another good example****

Last edited by conker69; 05-08-2007 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 05-07-2007, 10:40 PM   #255
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I just thought I would let everyone know that I am running my AP v2.0 now on the stage 2 map on 93 oct and I have now boost creep (at least none that I can notice) and no fuel cut as well. I spike 18psi and tapper off to about 12.

So.................not saying the some kinda tuning will fix your boost creep problems however I am saying tuning can be done to work with it......I know this only from personal experence, however I would still advise anyone to go with some kinda EWG option to further control the issue.

Thanks for everyones input on this issue as I know it is something which we all have had issues with along the way.
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Old 05-08-2007, 01:43 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy05sti View Post
I just thought I would let everyone know that I am running my AP v2.0 now on the stage 2 map on 93 oct and I have now boost creep (at least none that I can notice) and no fuel cut as well. I spike 18psi and tapper off to about 12.

So.................not saying the some kinda tuning will fix your boost creep problems however I am saying tuning can be done to work with it......I know this only from personal experence, however I would still advise anyone to go with some kinda EWG option to further control the issue.

Thanks for everyones input on this issue as I know it is something which we all have had issues with along the way.
UGH!!!!!! Dude, you are not tuning out the boost creep, the boost is simply too low for boost creep to occur. See this quote RIGHT IN THE FIRST POST:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Q) What is boost creep?
A) Boost creep occurs when the wastegate is physically unable to bypass enough exhaust around the turbine on the turbo.
By lowering the boost (yes, through tuning) you are reducing the exhaust to a level that the wastegate is able to bypass. You are NOT getting rid of the boost creep; moreso, you are preventing the car from reaching a point at which boost creep occurs.

It's really not that difficult people.
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Old 05-08-2007, 09:44 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by wrxfactor View Post
UGH!!!!!! Dude, you are not tuning out the boost creep, the boost is simply too low for boost creep to occur. See this quote RIGHT IN THE FIRST POST:



By lowering the boost (yes, through tuning) you are reducing the exhaust to a level that the wastegate is able to bypass. You are NOT getting rid of the boost creep; moreso, you are preventing the car from reaching a point at which boost creep occurs.

It's really not that difficult people.

well first I really doubt that my boost is to low for boost creep to occur, I'm peaking 18.5 +/- .5 and tapping down to 13 +/- .5 so to say boost is set to a level where boost creep won't happen I can't say that is the case in this situation. Acutally if I had to come to some kinda conclusion from this I would say that boost creep if different from each car even it is the same. Also air temp may have some play in the matter of boost creep. All I know is that my car is running like it was when I bought it from Subaru so I can't say much more than that.......
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Old 05-09-2007, 02:49 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Jeremy05sti View Post
well first I really doubt that my boost is to low for boost creep to occur, I'm peaking 18.5 +/- .5 and tapping down to 13 +/- .5 so to say boost is set to a level where boost creep won't happen I can't say that is the case in this situation. Acutally if I had to come to some kinda conclusion from this I would say that boost creep if different from each car even it is the same. Also air temp may have some play in the matter of boost creep. All I know is that my car is running like it was when I bought it from Subaru so I can't say much more than that.......
Alright, you're doing a little better. You understand it will be different for each car, but you think that your boost is high enough that boost creep should occur. It could be 20psi for your car, although it could occur at 18psi for other cars. It is also dependent on the turbo; a bigger turbo flows more air, and boost creep will be more apparent on those vehicles. You are saying so many different things I don't really know what you're getting at anymore.
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Old 05-10-2007, 01:37 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by wrxfactor View Post
Alright, you're doing a little better. You understand it will be different for each car, but you think that your boost is high enough that boost creep should occur. It could be 20psi for your car, although it could occur at 18psi for other cars. It is also dependent on the turbo; a bigger turbo flows more air, and boost creep will be more apparent on those vehicles. You are saying so many different things I don't really know what you're getting at anymore.

We'll just leave it at that........
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Old 05-10-2007, 03:44 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Jeremy05sti View Post
We'll just leave it at that........
If you're willing to clarify what you're trying to get it, it can and will help other people struggling with understanding this issue in the future. If not, well, I guess we'll leave it at that.
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Old 05-10-2007, 08:14 PM   #261
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If you're willing to clarify what you're trying to get it, it can and will help other people struggling with understanding this issue in the future. If not, well, I guess we'll leave it at that.

To clarify my point I will try and keep this simply, for those who seem to have a 2.5l with any kinda aftermarket TBE and are seeing some kinda boost creep and or fuel cut get, get some kind of engine management.

I'm not saying that engine management will resolve and fix all boost creep and or fuel cut issues but it will deffently help in getting you there.

Keep in mind that boost creep still remains a mechancial issue which on a stock 2.5l and lead to fuel cut depending on the severity of the boost creep which will be different from car to car.

Also keep in mind that a tool such as Cobbs AP tunes for this problem first by raising the fuel cut point from 17.5psi to 23psi. In doing so you will think you have fixed your boost creep however all you have done is "tuned" you car to work with the extra boost that has been created from the boost creep. The Cobbs AP however only tunes from up 18 +/- .5 psi which means boost creeping over that point puts you at risk of running lean and also causing DET. This can be fixed by getting a Protune but you will running you stock turbo at max boost which is not good among many other things and at the same time you still wouldn't have fixed the issue @ hand which is your boost creep. I would still advised anyone to get some kind of EWG option. However their are still several others things becides an EWG which are also listed in the forum.

I believe this hits the point that I was going for which is my AP fixed my Fuel Cut however I may or may not still be having boost creep, and my car runs like a million bucks.
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:11 AM   #262
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ok since this bears on the topic...if one had boost creep, had the AP to "fix" the problem, and was seeing the same results as jeremy05sti but wanted to be extra safe, what exactly would be involved in going the external route? And what are the best products for the money?
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Old 05-13-2007, 06:32 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy05sti View Post
To clarify my point I will try and keep this simply, for those who seem to have a 2.5l with any kinda aftermarket TBE and are seeing some kinda boost creep and or fuel cut get, get some kind of engine management.

EM should be the first step before any engine modifications that affect how the car runs.

I'm not saying that engine management will resolve and fix all boost creep and or fuel cut issues but it will deffently help in getting you there.

Help in getting you there is not what it is at all. It is not resolving any boost creep issue, nor is changing the fuel cut, which is only making things more dangerous without a professional tune. Changing your fuel cut will simply help you avoid the issue.

Keep in mind that boost creep still remains a mechancial issue which on a stock 2.5l and lead to fuel cut depending on the severity of the boost creep which will be different from car to car.

It does not matter if the motor is stock or not. If the wastegate can't allow enough air to pass, you'll get boost creep. It doesn't matter if you have a Stage 3 Axis block with built everything and ported v7 heads; if the wastegate can't do its job, hello boost creep.

Also keep in mind that a tool such as Cobbs AP tunes for this problem first by raising the fuel cut point from 17.5psi to 23psi. In doing so you will think you have fixed your boost creep however all you have done is "tuned" you car to work with the extra boost that has been created from the boost creep. The Cobbs AP however only tunes from up 18 +/- .5 psi which means boost creeping over that point puts you at risk of running lean and also causing DET. This can be fixed by getting a Protune but you will running you stock turbo at max boost which is not good among many other things and at the same time you still wouldn't have fixed the issue @ hand which is your boost creep. I would still advised anyone to get some kind of EWG option. However their are still several others things becides an EWG which are also listed in the forum.

Raising the fuel cut is not tuning. If getting a Protune fixes this issue, then how do people who go get professional tunes still encounter boost creep? Or, are you just saying everyone should go get tuned for their boost to be set where boost creep stops? That's an asinine and very uneconomical approach, but I guess it works.

I believe this hits the point that I was going for which is my AP fixed my Fuel Cut however I may or may not still be having boost creep, and my car runs like a million bucks.

Now I can understand your point, but it does nothing to resolve the issue of boost creep. Instead, your boost creep is no longer leading to a fuel cut, so everything feels OK to you.
- Chris
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:59 PM   #264
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and this can go on and on, so not to draw this out any further lets just leave it as it may.

I'm simply letting whoever feels like reading this know what I have experienced from a first hand basis. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong just explaining what I have personal dealt with.

Btw my cars FEELS even better now with a ProTune. So now please let us hear what Mr. Negative has to say now.......
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:09 AM   #265
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i just read this forum to learn about boost creep and the flaming made me dizzy
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Old 06-06-2007, 10:18 AM   #266
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Dont know if this was mentioned ....taking care of the problem with the boost creep...i know this worked on my 07...just change the vaccume like and the pill from the Wastegate. its on Cobb's Website..Works like a charm. i can get on the car now without even worrying...smooth ..linear power and car isnt even tuned
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Old 06-07-2007, 02:24 PM   #267
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Im thinking of going to a stage 2 setup, but having had turbo cars in the past, im very familiar with creeping issues when removing cats. I was just wondering if anyone here is running the MadDad V2 one piece downpipe (catted) and still experienceing boost creep.
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:48 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
With the countless threads about boost creep problems with turbobacks on the 2.5l STI, I think this thread should be helpful as a quick summary to those planning on moddifying their STI.

Q) What is boost creep?
A) Boost creep occurs when the wastegate is physically unable to bypass enough exhaust around the turbine on the turbo.

Q) Is boost creep harmful?
A) Yes, boost creep is one of the worst problems you can have with a turbo engine. Boost creep means that there is NO way for the boost pressure to be controlled. Boost pressures in excess of 20psi!!! have been recorded on STIs with TBE before the ECU cuts fuel.

Q) What causes boost creep?
A) Installing a turbo back exhaust whether aftermarket catted or not will in almost all cases cause boost creep to a certain extent.

Q) Are there any other options to prevent boost creep besides porting the wastegate?
A) Yes, Installation of an exhaust that either keeps the stock OEM muffler or one of the stock cats should not cause boost creep.

Q) How do I know if I have boost creep?
A) If you have a full TBE, then you probably have it. A boost gauge will tell you what pressure you are at as well. Fuel cut occurs when the ECU senses boost in excess of 17.5psi for 2-3s. Fuel cut in my experience is a very violent "stutter" from the engine that resembles extreme knock, followed by CEL.

Q) What is the overboost CEL?
A) (P0244) Wastegate malfunction

Q) Is there anything else I can do besides porting the wastegate to prevent the creeping....MBC, EBC, engine management etc?
A) This problem is isolated to the wastegate only. The wastegate is a mechanical system. There are no current workarounds or "fixes" besides this. The 2.5l just flows too much exhaust through the turbo once a turbo back has been added for the wastegate to control boost. If you think of it as a hierarchy, then it should make sense.

level 1) wastegate controls boost pressure
level 2) boost solenoid controls wastegate
level 3) MBC/EBC/ECU controls boost solenoid

Using this logic, if the problem resides on the 1st level, no matter what you do on top of it, you will still have the problem. Whatever (MBC, EBC, UTEC, ECUTEK) is controlling the wastegate CANNOT prevent boost creep if the WASTEGATE is UNABLE TO FLOW ENOUGH EXHAUST to prevent boost creep. A fuel cut defender will not eliminate the boost creep problem, but it will stop the fuel cut. Your boost will still creep up to 20psi, but the ECU won't be able to tell due to the altered signal from the FCD.

Q) My car seems to boost creep when it is cold out. Why is that?
A) Ambient temperature plays a huge role in how well your engine runs. In general, the cooler ambient temperature, the better your engine runs due to the laws of thermodynamics. The colder air causes your engine to make more HP (more work under the curve with lower temps), therefore more energetic exhaust gases, therefore your car is more prone to boost creep when it is cold out. If you live in an area that does not see colder temperatures (AZ for example) too often, then boost creep may never become a problem.

Q) I want to port my wastegate. What do I do?
A) Can you remove and install a turbo? If yes, there are a couple of options. You can send it to Deadbolt (www.deadboltspeed.com) for porting, have a local machine shop port it, or do it yourself with a "Dremmel like" tool.

Some other info on porting:
http://rx7.freeservers.com/modhb/boostcontrol.htm
http://www.fwdmopar.com/sites/dennis/wgateport.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=300296
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/boost-creep.html
http://members.tripod.com/alexander_grabau/id18.htm




(edited---to fix links, add links, and include CEL code)
(edited #2---to include temperature question)

I hope this is helpful to some people and please let me know if anything needs to be corrected.

Bill

Hi, I have a Subaru STI S202. It is the limited edition Japanese spec STi that comes with 320hp. I recently bought a few components to make her a little faster in the 1/4 mile. I just bought the 3" Cusco Catless Stainless Steel downpipe. I was planning on taking off the rest of the exhaust when I race and putting it back on for the street. I have an Autronic engine management system, but wanted to know if I will have to worry about boost creep? The problem is the mid pipe has a cat so it will restrict. I was going to make a catless midpipe, but we don't have any flanges down here as I live in the Caribbean, and we have a big race coming up this weekend. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks
Special
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:10 AM   #269
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Hi, I have a Subaru STI S202. It is the limited edition Japanese spec STi that comes with 320hp. I recently bought a few components to make her a little faster in the 1/4 mile. I just bought the 3" Cusco Catless Stainless Steel downpipe. I was planning on taking off the rest of the exhaust when I race and putting it back on for the street. I have an Autronic engine management system, but wanted to know if I will have to worry about boost creep? The problem is the mid pipe has a cat so it will restrict. I was going to make a catless midpipe, but we don't have any flanges down here as I live in the Caribbean, and we have a big race coming up this weekend. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks
Special

Well to answer your question in short Special, Its hard to tell weither or not you will experence any issues. Since all cars are different some may experence problems with just an aftermarket DP whereas other won't have any problems until they use an aftermarket catless TBE.

You'll just have to experence it yourself which in this case shouldn't be to much of a problem.

But with your STI I'm not sure if you IWG is any different. I'm sure it is seeing that you probably have a VF34 So try it out and see what happens.....
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:11 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by zakSti View Post
Dont know if this was mentioned ....taking care of the problem with the boost creep...i know this worked on my 07...just change the vaccume like and the pill from the Wastegate. its on Cobb's Website..Works like a charm. i can get on the car now without even worrying...smooth ..linear power and car isnt even tuned


That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard......Your still not changing the fact the BOOST CREEP is a mechanical issue reguardless of what you do.....
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:39 AM   #271
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I know this thread has been primarily focused on the STIs. But allow me to interject with a question about my 06 wrx.

Will a regular wrx suffer boost creep with a Cobb Catted DP, and a Prodrive 2.5 inch muffler ( same diameter as stock)

Generally speaking, are the regular WRX's less prone to the creep, I'd ideally like to be at stage 2 without having to worry about taking apart my car to port the wastegate on the turbo.
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:31 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by gatewrxing View Post
I know this thread has been primarily focused on the STIs. But allow me to interject with a question about my 06 wrx.

Will a regular wrx suffer boost creep with a Cobb Catted DP, and a Prodrive 2.5 inch muffler ( same diameter as stock)

Generally speaking, are the regular WRX's less prone to the creep, I'd ideally like to be at stage 2 without having to worry about taking apart my car to port the wastegate on the turbo.
I would guess no but it's a wait and see for yourself kinda thing. If your car is moving more air than the wastegate can bypass, then you'll experience boost creep.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:34 AM   #273
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If I'm running Cobb AP HF Catted DP with a full tbe, and COBB AP protune, what are normal turbo levels, just so I know what to look for when I'm cruising, and what levels to recognize a creep or a spike
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:04 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by gatewrxing View Post
If I'm running Cobb AP HF Catted DP with a full tbe, and COBB AP protune, what are normal turbo levels, just so I know what to look for when I'm cruising, and what levels to recognize a creep or a spike
I have no idea, if it's protuned then ask your tuner, he's the one who set the boost. Isn't that just common sense?
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:44 PM   #275
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Yeah I guess it is.


How far off normal boost levels should make you concerned.
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