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Old 07-18-2007, 03:29 AM   #1251
makofoto
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You mean Track ... not Wheelbase.

I used the same sedan Hotchkis sway bar for both oem wagon A arms and sedan A arms. Poltec adjustable endlinks.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:59 AM   #1252
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the 92 X did not have aluminum "control arms"- transverse links by Subaru terminology. What they did have is front aluminum lateral links (steel rears), but the 05 and 06 WRX's have these as well.

The 92X shares the same track as the WRX wagon in every respect, if you want to increase it you'll need to do what Mako did w/ his- replace the wagon bits w/ sedan ones
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:27 PM   #1253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twizzstyle View Post
Yeah, I was going to say, I don't want to mess with camber from the plate cause that will give me toe-out... but you say that helps turn-in? I would think toe-in would help that, but I've NEVER understood the dynamics of toe
Have you ever gone ice skating? Put your toes out and your legs start to want to turn in that direction, sometimes making you fall. Put your toes in and you're stable. Similar idea.

I don't actually know where my toe is for my autocross setting... didn't wanna pay the tech the extra green. But, whatever the number is, it is consistent from event to event. That's what really counts. I've found a setup I like, and I don't mess with it very much since I've still got so much to fix on the driving front.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:07 PM   #1254
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I like the ice skating analogy!

You can pay the alignment tech or you can pay the tire guys. :-)

... best is to learn to do it yourself. Not that hard. See the alignment threads. Knowing that oem specs are plus or minus 3 mm's total toe ... you can see that you've got a fairly wide range that is acceptable. Of course, if you're serious about AX, you should bias it towards performance, ie. a bit of toe out. But, you've got it right in wanting to keep things consistent while you learn to make the best of your set-up ... once you have a decent, fast set-up that you're comfortable with.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:45 PM   #1255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makofoto View Post
I like the ice skating analogy!

You can pay the alignment tech or you can pay the tire guys. :-)

... best is to learn to do it yourself. Not that hard. See the alignment threads. Knowing that oem specs are plus or minus 3 mm's total toe ... you can see that you've got a fairly wide range that is acceptable. Of course, if you're serious about AX, you should bias it towards performance, ie. a bit of toe out. But, you've got it right in wanting to keep things consistent while you learn to make the best of your set-up ... once you have a decent, fast set-up that you're comfortable with.
Right but, "acceptable" factory ranges, aren't necessarily all that good.

After installing my coilovers/balljoints I decided I wanted to do my own alignment cause I've been trying to learn so much about it the past few months. I got some super cheap-o harbor freight special alignment tools (a little ball level thing for camber, and this long aluminum bar for toe). I got my camber spot on, but the toe tool is a total pain to use, and when I took it in for a real alignment, I still had about 0.25" total toe in the front String method is probably more accurate.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:55 PM   #1256
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I agree, with my $650 survey laser I'm mm precise. I'm just trying to let people know that if they are going to be slightly off, for performance it's better to be on the toe out side instead of toe in. A 1/4 inch is too much ... that's more then 6 mm total toe.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:57 PM   #1257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makofoto View Post
I agree, with my $650 survey laser I'm mm precise. I'm just trying to let people know that if they are going to be slightly off, for performance it's better to be on the toe out side instead of toe in. A 1/4 inch is too much ... that's more then 6 mm total toe.
yeah, It was like 0.23" I think? Toe in of course And before I did that, it was WAY way off... I drove on it like that for about a week (didn't have time after the balljoint install to align it, so it had to wait)
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:31 PM   #1258
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:24 PM   #1259
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The current issue of Grassroots Motorsports Magazine has a test where they keep adding camber to a mini cooper until it stops gaining time. Interesting read, complete with across the tread tire temps after each go.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:55 PM   #1260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makofoto View Post
I like the ice skating analogy!
I went ice skating for the first time in my life this past winter. I brought the continual slipping and falling on my ass to a minimum when my wife told me to put my toes in. Being the extreme car geek, I immediately thought of alignment settings.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:47 PM   #1261
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Default 2002 wagon setup

AGXs all around
2002-3 specific swift springs
Sedan rear sway bar

I set the fronts damping to 2 and rears to 3 and get good balance all around. A little too much dampning if sent on 3 in the front.

The setup is as comfortable as stock with much less body roll and squat when braking. Have had the springs for 1 month and haven't noted any sagging in the rear (so far only heard of this issue with 04' and up swift wagon springs)
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:48 PM   #1262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
AGXs all around
2002-3 specific swift springs
Sedan rear sway bar
Sedan or wagon struts?
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:07 PM   #1263
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AGX's are all sedan- also all 02/03 style
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:34 PM   #1264
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Stoopid N00b question: (just because searching on NASIOC always results in both yes and no answers)

With an '02 Bugeye wagon, can you just use '04 struts all the way around? I'm more interested in the Wagon Pinks than the '02-03 Prodrives I think, and want to use Koni inserts.

Or to put it another way
Prodrive w/ Koni Inserts
Or
Wagon Pinks w/ Koni Inserts?
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:57 PM   #1265
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yes you can use 04+ style struts on your 02/03- it requires 04+ rear tops and 04+ style springs (which it sounds like you want)

just insure to order the correct inserts (04+ for the rear, fronts are the same)

you can use your 02/03 strut housings if you like- I'm running 02 wagon strut housings w/ 04+ Koni inserts on my 04 wagon
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:56 AM   #1266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
AGX's are all sedan- also all 02/03 style
That's actually no longer the case aparently.... I thought I had read that they now had wagon struts somewhere, but was never sure... but on the current KYB Catalog they have 02/03 WRX Wagon listed, with different part numbers to the sedans...

http://www.kyb.com/catalog/2007_passenger_car.pdf

Before I had my coilovers, I bought AGX's for my car last fall, when they only had the sedan struts (I used camber plates)
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:00 AM   #1267
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maybe your looking at the GR2's? they've always been offered in a 02/03 wagon style- I don't see any wagon apps listed under the WRX for the AGX???
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:14 PM   #1268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
maybe your looking at the GR2's? they've always been offered in a 02/03 wagon style- I don't see any wagon apps listed under the WRX for the AGX???

Wow.... did not even see that there was an AGX column .... d'oh, I'm an idiot.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:34 PM   #1269
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no problem- was excited for another wagon option for a second
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:27 PM   #1270
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^^^ me too.

I got whiteline roll center kit on the way
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:03 PM   #1271
UCRWRX
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anyone else have STi Pinks, Tokico D-specs, and Group N (tophats)?

thats what im goin with right now, so far i like it... although i do wanna get something checked on it.... unfortunately.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:34 PM   #1272
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Setup is pretty basic:
Prodrive springs
Stock struts
Whiteline HD end links f/r
Sedan 20mm rear sway bar
Slightly more aggressive alignment

I have some camber bolts that I plan on adding to the front to get a more aggressive alignment on stock parts.

My plan for this car is primarily DD, although I would like to have it as competitive as possible for STX class autocross without going to coilovers. The car also sees 1-3 track days a year. My thought is to add Koni inserts, Group N tophats in the rear, RCE camber plates in the front, and aggressive swaybars to keep the car level with the relatively soft suspension.

I know I can get a 27mm RSB although for the FSB it seems that wagon specific applications are limited to 22mm solid bars or 25mm hollow bars (which I believe are fairly equivalent). I don't want to adapt a sedan 27mm FSB with spherical endlinks since I don't want to listen to the noise. What is the most aggressive FSB available, and what would be the appropriate RSB for a balanced ride?

My first impression is that a matched Cobb or Hotchkis setup would be most aggressive and balanced ... anyone had any luck with such a proposed setup of aggressive sways without the stiff struts/springs?

Thanks
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:42 PM   #1273
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I thought Cobb/Hotchkis bars were all sedan bars?

they are oughly equivilant to 22mm, the WL adj front wagon bar is roughly 22/24- so you may find more roll stiffness w/ that bar over the hollow ones

I'm running a 27/29 front bar (now w/ oe front arms)/ Poltec wagon spherical links- a couple of autox events under the belt and a 2500 mile vacation and not a peep

I was suprised to see that the links were orientated pretty decent ( I did lengthen them slightly though)

IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j304/BIGSKYWRX/poltecwgnswaylink.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:56 PM   #1274
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How would 17x7.5 225/45/17 work with crucial springs?
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:06 AM   #1275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
I thought Cobb/Hotchkis bars were all sedan bars?
On double checking it appears you are correct, there is no distinction between sedan and wagon FSBs on the Cobb website.

So I guess the choices for aggressive sway bar setups are either:
The WL 22/24 FSB with a similarly sized adj RSB (22-24 adj)
or
27 sedan bar coupled with spherical endlinks and 27mm RSB

Any input on which of the two would work best for my application of DD/STX autox/occasional track day. Always rolling on street tires (no slicks).
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