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Old 01-06-2004, 07:33 PM   #1
left footed whooten
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Default I'll give you a topic: What's better, ej20 or ej22t for my 1996 gm2?

I wanna get going on an engine soon, but I can't decide if i want the more difficult to find ej22t or just go ej20 for abundance. For ej22t, i would have to take the engine and harness and ecu from a legacy turbo, right? what model year? Does anyone make aftermarket harnesses or conversion gear? Is it a starry eyed dream to want to fake a 22B? Are the ej20's more reliable in general?
Help a brother out

thanks,
Dylan
Truckee, Ca
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Old 01-07-2004, 10:39 AM   #2
Dennis ex24
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we need to stop speaking in code on NASIOC

ive worked at quite a few subaru related jobs and consider myself an enthusiast but i have no idea what the hell a gm6 is...can you elaborate?

your car wont be a 22B or anything close with an EJ22T, it doesnt employ the same engine block that an early 90s legacy turbo did, regardless of what people tell you on this website.

EDIT: forgot to answer the question...EJ20 is a decent choice because of how many of these roam the earth now, but the EJ22T is definitley the better engine.
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Old 01-07-2004, 01:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dennis ex24
we need to stop speaking in code on NASIOC

ive worked at quite a few subaru related jobs and consider myself an enthusiast but i have no idea what the hell a gm6 is...can you elaborate?
Your kidding right? GM6 is the chassis designation for the 2-door 2.5RS, similar to the GC8 designation of the 2.0 turbo Impreza's. The GM2 IIRC is a 2-door, 1.8L Impreza.


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Old 01-10-2004, 05:22 AM   #4
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get an ej22T they are cheap. but replace all of the plastic on it. like the PCV sytem, and intake. replace all of it with new factory stuff.

it all falls appart after 100k

touching a part = cumbling plastic
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Old 01-13-2004, 09:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dennis ex24
we need to stop speaking in code on NASIOC

ive worked at quite a few subaru related jobs and consider myself an enthusiast but i have no idea what the hell a gm6 is...can you elaborate?

your car wont be a 22B or anything close with an EJ22T, it doesnt employ the same engine block that an early 90s legacy turbo did, regardless of what people tell you on this website.

I won't challenge your expertise on Subarus, even though you didn't know the chassis code he was refering to, but I would love to see some empirical evidence to back up this statement about the USDM EJ22 Turbo block and the 22B...
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
but I would love to see some empirical evidence to back up this statement about the USDM EJ22 Turbo block and the 22B...
Me too.

-Brian
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Old 01-16-2004, 09:52 AM   #7
Dennis ex24
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the empirical evidence is right across the parking lot where i work...theres a 22B, an EJ22T for comparison as well as engineers and techs that worked here when the car and engine was built.

and sorry for not knowing the chassis code for a 2dr RS...but the rest of the car driving world would probably refer to it as a 2dr RS.
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Old 01-16-2004, 03:33 PM   #8
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Is it just the 22b engine, or the whole car? If it is the whole car, then I'l like to head up there to take a look sometime!!
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Old 01-17-2004, 09:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dennis ex24
the empirical evidence is right across the parking lot where i work...theres a 22B, an EJ22T for comparison as well as engineers and techs that worked here when the car and engine was built.

and sorry for not knowing the chassis code for a 2dr RS...but the rest of the car driving world would probably refer to it as a 2dr RS.
Hey,
My previous remarks were not meant to be insulting, so no need to get defensive. If you re-read my post I hope you will see that I was saying that I don't discount your level of technical knowledge because of that chassis code thing. You seem to have taken it to mean the contrary. People around here who know me know that I don't give a damn who is right or wrong, I just want to know the right answer.

And your answer is still not an answer. Telling me that engine and engineers are right across the street does nothing to prove or disprove whether the 22B and the USDM Turbo Legacy share the same block or not. When I talk about empirical evidence, I want to see something from Subaru, or HyperRev or some other reputable source that I can see with my own eyes. Mentioning the guys across the street doesn't get me any closer to the truth. It holds as much credibility with me as the guys here who claim the blocks are the same but have no evidence themselves. Again, re-read my comments...I never claimed to believe the guys who say the blocks are the same, I merely asked you to back up what you said. Don't take it all so personally and engage in the quest for knowledge and don't assume that I am trying to put you down...

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Old 01-21-2004, 03:04 PM   #10
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Hmmm, no response.
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Old 01-22-2004, 11:36 AM   #11
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the 22B and the ej22t are 2 different sets of internals. both, as all ej series engines, are variations from the ej18.

and my dense friend, the knowledge he dropped was that across teh street was SOA, Subaru of America. which u should have gathered by the reference to the only legal 22B in the USA.

we tried to help.
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Old 01-23-2004, 02:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boxologist
the 22B and the ej22t are 2 different sets of internals. both, as all ej series engines, are variations from the ej18.

and my dense friend, the knowledge he dropped was that across teh street was SOA, Subaru of America. which u should have gathered by the reference to the only legal 22B in the USA.

we tried to help.
For starters, no need to come in here and start calling names like we are in the shcool yard. Furthermore, I knew exactly what he was talking about with his reference to SOA. Lastly, I said they were the same block, not SHORT block. They are two different things my dense condescending freind. And lastly, your lame post still hasn't added any information to the topic that is empirical. Everything I have ever seen backs up your comments, but as mentioned above, I would love to see some sort of technical document to verify this.

You could be some self important 16 year sitting behind a screen talking BS on a bulliten board for all we know (not that you are, and I am sure that I am about to get your resume read to me). So, like your freind , you have still not dropped any real knowledge on the subject. If you guys don't have anything to verify it, then just say so, there's no shame in that...
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Old 01-23-2004, 04:32 PM   #13
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I would have to agree with Matt that this childish namecalling really doesn't add to the discussion. Honestly, I come out of this post yet again wondering why I took the minute out of my time to read it.

I have been trying to research the engine that's in my car for some time now, and have talked to one owner of a 22b overseas who was interested in the usdm turbo legacy block because his own 22b block did not come with oil squirters!!

I'm amazed that subaru would not have placed this feature on their 22b, however, I was happy to gain this useful information on the difference.

I compared notes with this gentleman and we found that the internals were startlingly similar. Molybdenum coated cast pistons, forged rods, forged crank, and medium pressure-cast, closed-deck block!!

I'm not saying that it's the exact same short block, but the two engines do share some significant similarities to warrant saying they're "close enough."

So any other technical information you can provide from these techs that "worked on a real 22b" to further my own knowledge and Matt's on the blocks of the turbo legacy engine and the 22b engine would be greatly appreciated!!
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Old 01-26-2004, 03:23 PM   #14
Dennis ex24
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2.5GT
Hmmm, no response.
sorry dude, i dont check NASIOC forums everyday.

anyway, as i understand it the 22B block is a variation of the EJ20G - bored and stroked...not the underrated USDM EJ22T.

and youre right, no oil squirters - isnt that crazy?
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Old 01-30-2004, 01:14 PM   #15
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Dennis ex24, where are you? I live in SJ and work in Philly, there is a 22b impreza running around our area?

Brandon
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dennis ex24
sorry dude, i dont check NASIOC forums everyday.

anyway, as i understand it the 22B block is a variation of the EJ20G - bored and stroked...not the underrated USDM EJ22T.
No problem. I only started frequenting this board when I saw this post

You're right the engine in the 22b was a bored (I'm not sure if stroke changed, but it might) out STi V4 Type R 2.0l engine. It retained the same heads and turbo as the v4 type R, IIRC.

Markedly different from the USDM 2.2L turbo engine in terms of build process, but when all is said and done, the nt result is a 2.2L engine with very similar attributes (I'm hazarding a guess that the bore, stroke, and subsequent rod-to-stroke ratio is the same as well). Like you said, all ej-series engines were originally derived from the 1.8L engine anyways . . .

Sorta off-topic, the basis for the body was also the STi v4 Type R, which was then seam-welded and given the widebody treatment and customized front bumper seen on the v4 gc8 (whoops, I used the nomenclature! j/k!) rally car , along with a wider set of wheels/tires.

So the "technical name' for the 22b was the STi v4 Type R 22b. Try saying that five times fast

Last edited by 2.5GT; 01-30-2004 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 02-01-2004, 08:44 PM   #17
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Dennis,
No worries on the slow response. The E22's are over-bored, and not stroked, as 2.5GT mentioned. They are 96.9 X 75 mm. Also as mentioned, it had totally different heads than the SOHC US turbo, and did not have the forged pistons that the 22B had. I do still wonder about the squirters thing. Maybe it was an experiment they tried on the older Legacy blocks and didn't find it added anything so it wasn't done when they brought out the 22B...
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Old 02-04-2004, 02:20 PM   #18
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Just to clarify:

22B bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm. from You and Your Impreza Turbo

EJ22G bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm from FSM

Same bore and stroke. How about that?
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Old 02-10-2004, 04:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2.5GT
Just to clarify:

22B bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm. from You and Your Impreza Turbo

EJ22G bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm from FSM

Same bore and stroke. How about that?


Your sure on the oil squirters, I remember when you told me... it ruined the whole fantasy of the legacy 2.2.

Its sad that this may be the last year they will be making the 2.2.
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Old 02-10-2004, 12:40 PM   #20
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I'm POSITIVE the turbo legacy blocks have oil squirters, but apparently, the 22b blocks DIDN'T.
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Old 02-11-2004, 01:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2.5GT
I'm POSITIVE the turbo legacy blocks have oil squirters, but apparently, the 22b blocks DIDN'T.
I guess it makes sense that they tested out the oil squirter and felt they were unneeded... so they left then out of the 22b.
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Old 02-11-2004, 12:10 PM   #22
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Well, if the 22b did, in fact, have forged pistons, then the need for oil squirters might not have been an issue.
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:10 PM   #23
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good point. I just picked up a junkyard EJ22T yesterday. I will be stripping it in the next few weeks and will post pics for all to see. I hope I can find a way to show the oil squirters...
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Monson
good point. I just picked up a junkyard EJ22T yesterday. I will be stripping it in the next few weeks and will post pics for all to see. I hope I can find a way to show the oil squirters...
Ive seen a pic with them... Ill look for where.
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:44 PM   #25
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&pagenumber=2



Thats was easyer then I thought it would have been...
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