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Old 05-22-2000, 06:28 AM   #1
N/A
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Post OT: Maternity leave

OK now I know I will get flamed for this one by a few people but I still would rather vent. I get to work today at 9AM to see that the woman who normally sits a little ways off talking ont he phone to her friends all day isn't there. I go about my day of planning to take over the world and at around 11:30AM I get a email saying to see the supervisor as soon as I get a chance. OK I just figure maybe he is mad for me using his parking spot again (it isn't assigned so I park there). I get in his office to have him start with explaining that stats are low for the section and that now me and the other five people will have to work even harder to get work done because What's her name is out on maternity leave for who knows how long. Then he springs it on me. The whole reason for calling me into his office. He has taken it upon himself to designate me to pic up her slack while she is gone. So let me get this straight, I have to work harder to make up for her initial lack of work that dragged down stats and now I get to work even harder because she won't be here at all? At this point I am getting hostile and want to go to the car for a crowbar to help him pull his head out of his ass. He cuts me off with the usual song and dance about new US laws and Clintons parental leave rights. She is allowed to be on PAID bed rest for her last 2 months, and then she gets her maternity leave. The whole time she is paid and gets to earn leave while she is gone! When she gets back she gets her old job, credit towards time being in the company and I get a big screw you for all my work. I know they should get time off and all but damn at least pay me more for more work. Give me some F-ing credit for it at the end. Let's see now, first on bad weather days they get sent home while I stay since I have no kids, I get the holidays and weekends since I have no children, I get to stay at work while they go to the company family day, and they aren't forced to stay late that way they can go home to be with their kids. Is it just me or are things getting a little lopsided? How about time off to go home to the 120+lb dog? How about days off to spend with my car? Are the childless getting the shaft? Its bad enough I have to listen to them talk about their damn kids all day but then I log onto this site and they run and tell. I would have to say that I will be happy to leave Japan and get away from Gov employees.
OK now I will get out the flame suit, but I still think it discriminates against the rest of us.
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Old 05-22-2000, 06:55 AM   #2
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Exclamation

Yeah dude, it's such a rip off. They get all the perks. They have to get up in the middle of the night when the kids are sick. They have to make sure that the kids are fed and clothed. And they also have the moral responsibility of making sure their child becomes a productive member of society. Not to mention all the vomit and excrimemnt they get to clean up.
Yeah, new parents got it easy.


Hey, you said you had your flame suit on.
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Old 05-22-2000, 06:59 AM   #3
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I'd tell your boss to shove all this new work up your ass. You have to do all this extra work and not get paid extra for it? I'd find a new job....Or get pregnant really quick.
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Old 05-22-2000, 07:02 AM   #4
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Thumbs down

and this is Subaru related HOW?????

please... either get your own "I hate my job BBS" or keep it to yourself!!
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Old 05-22-2000, 07:31 AM   #5
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Hope no one is close to her when she gets that mad, probably slam you the ground .

[This message has been edited by Rally Man (edited May 22, 2000).]
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Old 05-22-2000, 07:48 AM   #6
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Oooo,
Subie Gal! Someone rattled your cage? There are lots of non Subaru related threads on here. Admittedly most are at least car related!

I realise you must be missing ol' Blighty after your recent trip, but really..........

Geezer
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Old 05-22-2000, 09:38 AM   #7
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Have a Nice Day?

It's no cake walk, my man. It blows (and not in the good way) that you have to work harder - but the law's the law. That is - expect people to take advantage of whatever opportunities are available to them - you gotta find out what yours are. My wife and I have a 6mo old daughter - and BELIEVE me - maternity leave saved the sanity of all three of us. People are going to have kids, and mom really does need to be home with the lil' critter - they have a specific dependency on mom, and there's bonding, rest and recuperation, etc. Pregnancy is not all pickles and ice cream. My wife got twelve weeks full paid - but her employer used a temp while she was gone - if you get stiffed by your boss, you might need to look for a better gig. I know that's a lot to ask, but it's also a lot to ask when you have to do someone else's work. Not everybody has to do what you got forced into. My office manager is sick a lot - well I'm hardly ever sick, so it seems a lot - anyway, when she's gone on her "personal time" - she expects me to answer the phones - schedule appts., etc - stuff she handles regularly when she's there. I'm a technician, I can't / won't try to do my job and hers, too. If I am ever out - she doesn't take care of MY workload.

LONG story short - That mom-lady is getting hers, which I believe is fair - but you gotta get yours, too. It's the manager's fault, not your co-worker's

ps - People with kids get tired of hearing about other people's crap as well - it's just a different sort of crap. Plus we have as much to talk about as any "single" person - plus, well, the kid stuff too.
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Old 05-22-2000, 09:43 AM   #8
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Just thought I'd point out the Subaru content

"At this point I am getting hostile and want to go to the car for a crowbar to help him pull his head out of his ass."
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Old 05-22-2000, 10:16 AM   #9
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Sarcasm mode on,
Wolve I feel for you. I guess if you are a White man in your twenties and thirtys, God has given you so many advantages, that it is only fair that the Government rewrite the rules to even the playing field.

Now with omnibenevolent governemnt's help, those who are not white, 20-30 yr old, or men can compete with the natural gifts that give you such an obvious advantage in life.

Travis,
You should be worried about happy and healthy children. It is not neccesary that they become "Productive" members of society, unless you are Alan Greenspan and your sole concern is the Gap between potential and actual productivity.

Since we are not being PC. It is more important for children to adhere to passed down family values and moral responsibilitys than to play a part in the economic wellbeing of this society. The most anyone can ever be is happy with who they are. Any connection between happiness and economic contribution is unproven.

I want good kids, if they are rich too, that is just gravy! And good comes from God, not a buch of legislators.
Tim

Head to toe in Nomex

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Old 05-22-2000, 10:20 AM   #10
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IMHO, I know I'll probably offend a few here but hell, this is only the truth.

If you are a single woman and you must work to survive, the answer is simple - DON'T GET PREGNANT. I don't care if it is an 'oops' or on purpose but if you NEED the money to survive, think ahead for crying out loud.

Personally, I'm against those anti-choice bastards who think that they have a word in saying what a woman can and cannot do with herself and her body. You can make your own decisions if it comes down to having a baby or surviving. I know that it is a tough decision with maternal instincts and such, but it is still a consideration.

I personally do not think that women should still be paid for bed rest or maternity leave (you didn't HAVE to have the kid, now did you?). Also, I don't think that they should be allowed back after X amount of months if they go on maternity leave BY LAW, it is up the the employers discretion to decide if they want to extend that legal period. Along the same lines, I believe that women should have pregnancy tests along with their drug test when being hired into a job - just so they don't lie to the employer about not being pregnant when they know they are - I've seen it done.

I won't go into the rattling of women, the discussion of rights, or anything else that I can go on about for hours, but take into consideration that this is a discusoin about a LAW, not women's RIGHTS (though I kinda went into that with abortion, I apoligize but it was relevant at the time).

BTW, (erased section of thought about relgious beliefs).

EDIT: typos & clarifying.

[This message has been edited by 8Complex (edited May 22, 2000).]
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Old 05-22-2000, 11:01 PM   #11
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Cool

N/A, maybe you shouldn't have gotten her pregnant.

One word: Condom

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Old 05-22-2000, 11:36 PM   #12
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Several Words

move to another country..

There's a real world out there people, Oh and with real cars

Richard
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Old 05-22-2000, 11:45 PM   #13
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N/A.. i could make your boss magically 'disappear' .. .if .. you . .really want it that bad.. hehe
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Old 05-23-2000, 02:03 AM   #14
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Complex,
Did Bill and Ted bring you back from the 16th century? Your political and moral views seem to be slightly to the right of Attila the Hun!

I suppose you think women shouldn't be allowed to vote? Or drive? (hmm! )

Land of the free? Equal oppurtunities? I think you should go and live in Iran where your views are positively encouraged.

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Old 05-23-2000, 05:21 AM   #15
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OK since a few people said they should get a temp and one comment about me being the cause I will explain some more for you. Where I work it would be completely impossible to get a temp. I am in Japan working with satellites. They can't just run out to a temp agency for that. The temp would also need a security clearance and a huge background check. Since not many people want to up and move their whole family to Japan they are short manned. I know work from 9AM until around 7 or 8 at night. I am a salaried employee and I get no overtime. I am no the one who got her pregnant although I wonder about the maintenance guy. She claims it is her husbands even though he has been gone for almost a year and filing for divorce. Yes I think parents have a hard time with new borns. However that is a decision they make on their own and it is part of their personal life. I don't see why their decision should effect my work. My major gripe is that I was first told that my coworkers and I weren't working hard enough. Then I was told I had to now work harder and get paid the same amount. Shouldn't the extra work be my option and not a forced thing? I wasn't aware that my rights were decreased because I don't want kids? It may be a mean view but your personal life shouldn't effect your work or mine. Its just that your personal life now lets leave it that way. The new laws just seem to have gone overboard. When does their parenting rights conflict with my rights? As far as the guy who said get another gig goes your pretty dead on with that one. I spent most of today talking to Raytheon about a job.
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Old 05-23-2000, 05:45 AM   #16
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Sorry ... verry long. touchy point and I know this is a subie list....but I jhust had to say something.

It's weird that you bring this up. The Providence Journal (I live near Rhode Island) just did an large article in the Past Sunday's edition speaking to what N/A just said...regarding special work benefits (they are benefits no matter who's paying for them) to the child bearing and none to the childless. The childless are just starting to ask for equal compensation.

It's good reading and I think speaks volumes for a common attitude that is rising here in the states...I just can't find a link onto the article...

I for one say there should be equality in the workplace, compensation wise, time wise, money wise, etc... for men and women. Women have struggled hard for equality in the workplace. Cudos. But if they want equality, I think it also needs to go both ways.

You need to leave your personal life at home. Work is work. You have children by choice. (Uh oh...this is an age old debate in itself) No one holds a gun to your head to have kids. (Present mother-in-laws excluded)

If someone gets to take time off for something they choose to do (which in this case is to have a child), why should others be penalized in the forms of less compensation and more work getting dumped on them? And in reverse, those who are having a child, get paid for it while they present no value to the company?

Yes it's a law. You're absolutely right. So what you're saying is I have to pay for someone to have a kid. After all it is our choice (My wife and I) not to have a child. Are you thinking that we're selfish? (of which we have been called) How about this for selfish?

My wife and I go to a nice quiet bird sancturary and mom and pa with their 2.5 kids show up. What does little junior do with every passing step?

Blow a freakin police whistle. Birds? What birds? All gone. Mom and pa don't care..why? It keeps the kid happy. Hello!! It's a freaking bird sanctuary, not a park. After we asked to not have little junior blow the whistle, we get our heads ripped off for not having kids. Or a nice quiet restaurant, little sally screaming her head off becuase she doesn't want to eat her brussels sprouts.

Ask youslef who's being selfish? Yes mom and dad never spend any quiet time or personal time together becuase they're always taking care of their children.

Not to mention all the tax breaks, health compensation for family plans at work, and time off for either going home early or coming in late becuase of an excuse "gotta go take care of my child". Where's the fairness in that for your coworkers? Oh that's right this is america "It's not YOUR problem."

Sorry for waxing philisophical and all...

--KC

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Old 05-23-2000, 06:31 AM   #17
boxerman
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Geezer,
We all agree with equal work for equal pay. Well actually I should get paid a lot for doing nothing. What wolve is b*chin about, is that she is not doing equal work for equal pay.

I have nothing against parents, both my parents were parents. I someday hope to be a parent.

Some of these "level the playing field laws" are just ridiculous. What the government has done, whether they intended to or not, is encourage parenthood. We may disagree whether childbirth and parenthood is a social good or an additional burden on already strained resources, but that's not the point.

What one does is thier own business, whether or not they have kids is thier own business, how many kids they have is thier own business. I think it is a shame and a waste of my tax money that the government is actively engaged in behaviour modification. I think Jefferson is spinning in his grave.

Behaviour modification is written into the tax code, encouraging home ownership and charitable giving. I agree that these are good things but, what about the people in this country that don't share those prioritys? Why should they be disadvantaged because thier values don't coincide with the majority of Americans? One of the main goals of the US constitution is to protect against the tyranny of the majority.

I also realize that there are other widely recognized so-called "social goods" that I don't agree with, I may even have very strong moral objections to these activities, yet I am forced to support them. What we have is an overly complicated legal and tax system with thousands of carveouts to benefit special interest.

I am glad that the Supreme Court struck down the "Violence against Women Act". Murder, Rape, Assault, Spousal abuse are already against the law in all states. Why do we need a special law to benefit 51% of the population? Answer, to encourage women to vote for the sponsors and supporters. Why do we need a special law to protect homosexuals, since all the activitys which harm homosexuals are covered by laws that protect all of us? It is all politics. The Democrats, like to divide Americans into special interests and then pass laws that cater to those special interests.

The saying "it takes a village" did not originate in the US and I disagree totally with the notion. Your problems and triumphs are exclusively yours, and my problems and triumphs are mine. Our prioritys may not be aligned, I lack the wisdom and the arrogance to know whose prioritys are the correct ones, so I stay out of your business. That's the American way.

And yes there is a whole other world out there. I just want America back after 8 years of damage. It doesn't take a village, it takes a family.

Tim
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Old 05-23-2000, 07:23 AM   #18
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Now just hang on a minute there partner!
Some of the comments made in this thread seem to attack people (mainly women) for wanting to have children and work and get apid for it. I realise that people will have differing opinions on this, but in the end, if they don't work, you will pay for them through your taxes etc. The fact is, your law, and out EU laws state that women have the right to maternity leave, and a job when they return. You will not change this, so stop bitchin about it! The failure is in your employer for not ensuring there is sufficient cover when people are on maternity leave. Take it up with your boss, don't have a go at people who are exercising their rights. Rather strange really for a nation who continually go on about their Constitutional rights, but only when it suits them!

Let's all work and not have any kids, then hey, no more people!
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Old 05-23-2000, 07:34 AM   #19
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I'm just happy to have a job.
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Old 05-23-2000, 07:55 AM   #20
boxerman
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There is a differrence between a right to have a child and a financial entitlement to have that child. I am all for rights, I am all against entitlements. You are born buck naked! Its up to you find food, clothing and shelter, not your neighbors. No one is arguing against a womens right to have children, we are arguing against preferential treatment for those who exercise that right.

Make your choices, suffer the consequences. Don't blame society because you fail. don't credit society when you succeed. You did it!

All we are guaranteed is open doors, not a push from behind to get through the door. There are very real differences between people. We are born with different abilitys and abitions. Some people make careless choices. Bailing them out only encourages more carelss choices. You gotta be cruel to be kind, in the right measure.

Remember most of ancestors didn't like it in Europe, where birthright and social status was a neccesary precondition for success. We prefer talent, hard work, and well thought out decisions. This society likes the concept of winners and losers.

The last thing we want to do is copy the European model (slow, stagnant and rigid). A German friend of mine likened the US to a casino where you show up and spin the wheel. Some people win big, some don't have enough money for bus fare home. I disagree slightly because he places to much emphasis on luck. I think the US is more like a poker game, luck plays a part, but smarts and skill are also important, and bull***** is the most important. But hey, we like it this way.

I have no idea where some get the idea that people just by being born are guranteed some minimal existence. Everything is a result of decisions, bad decisions make bad results. Only when someone suffers from someone elses bad decision do we step in and help, because it is fair. If you screw your own life up, don't expect help.

PS I am not saying that women are screwing up thier lives by having children. I believe children are our link to the future and our best shot at immortality. They are time machines which carry passed down family values and traditions and genetics into the future. They are our hope, and every child is a miracle to be cherished.

I just don't beleive in the collective sharing of responsibility, since there are people who do not believe in my above statement, and I have no right to demand thier cooperation.

Tim
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Old 05-23-2000, 08:26 AM   #21
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I also believe that people should help themselves, but the American model is by no means ideal either. Somewhere in between perhaps. You cannot just let people rot because they have fallen on hard times, or because they cannot achieve as much as others. Someone cleaning the streets may work just as hard os the CEO of a major corporation, but they will just never make it. Not everyone can make it, there has to be a hierarchy. That's just the way it is. You can not achieve full employment in the capitalist system, so what do you do with those who can't find work? If your father was laid off, but couldn't get another job because employers discriminated against him because of age, do you agree he should be left to starve? I doubt it very much.

Perhaps he could use his severance money to buy a gun, and then start holding up 7/11s. It's little wonder there is so much crime stateside!

Equal pay for equal work is fine. The returning mother is unlikely to get promotion/big pay rises because the hours she can put in will be determined by her children. You, however, can work your butt off if you want, and will get rewarded for it. You will rise inexorably thruogh the ranks, which from what you've said is just what you want anyway, so what harm does a woman on maternity leave do? They don't get paid for the full term they are off (well not in Europe anyway), so where's the harm in that?

The only valid complaint I've heard so far is that the original woman in question didn't do much before she went off and that he has to cover her work now she is off. Both are failings in management, not the law, rights etc. She obviously is a lazy bitch, but don't tar all women who want children with the same brush.

[This message has been edited by Geezer (edited May 23, 2000).]
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Old 05-23-2000, 08:40 AM   #22
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Just something to throw in the pot without writing an essay...

Where my wife works, men are allowed "paternity leave." If their wife has a baby, they get to go on a pretty long PAID leave. Cool, huh?

Chris



[This message has been edited by AWDconvert (edited May 23, 2000).]
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Old 05-23-2000, 08:56 AM   #23
boxerman
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Geezer,
Hey, I think we might be coming close to an agreemnet somehow.

You mention people who suffer because of circumstances beyond thier control, I never argued that these people who shouldn't be helped. It is the results of bad behaviour and decision making on the part of the individual, that we need to keep our hands off of.

As for my father, you are right that age discrimination is wrong, and it is illegal here. But what you seem to be inferring is that it is OK for the government to incentivize employers to hire my dad over me. That is in effect descrimination against me. You have to be neutral in these things and not favor one side over the other.There are ways to protect peoples right without violating others rights. This is the inherent flaw in affirmative action.

Nature and nurture creates differences in peoples abilitys and ambition. It may be disturbing to see people fail and suffer, but sometimes support only encourages additional failure and sufferring. In our country, we have the phenomon of perpetual welfare families. It doesn't matter if the cause is genetic or environmental, the government is an enabling agent perpetuating the sufferrring. At least when churches were the administrators of charity, they also dispensed values and moral lessons. Now the government hands out money without accountability.

This is yet another case of the government treating the symptoms (poverty) without trying to cure the diasese (education, work ethic, disability) At least the rhetoric here has moved towards accountability, lets hope policy follows.

BTW there is not a country in EU that has lower unemployement than the US, and stories of crime here are greatly exaggerated.

There is a reason why the US Economy is dominant. It is immigration, and relatively low regulation. We are like a garden where the soil is constantly turned over. Ideas can quickly take root and grow without being strangled by the weeds of regulation and beauracracy. We just need to keep the weeds out.

Tim

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Old 05-23-2000, 09:21 AM   #24
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I agree TIm.
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Old 05-23-2000, 01:14 PM   #25
Faraz
What?...
Do they speak English in What?

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Geezer Go to Iran?
Well I having some, for one reason or another, knowledge about the country which you DON'T. Women aren't treated as bad as the WORLD makes it out to be. Go read a book or visit the country before making statements with no knowledge....hmmm that's like putting stickers on car your car to make it look fast... So I'd have to say you made one RICEY Comment ....come back when you have a turbo i mean visited the country.
Don't need a flame suit Y: cause if its too hot...don't come in the kitchen
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