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Old 01-12-2004, 10:40 PM   #1
essogas
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Default Is an 8.5" wheel to wide for the STi?

I ask because I can get a wheel that comes close to the stock BBS offset and has the same bolt pattern.

The Volk TE37 can be either 17.7.5 +48
or 17X8.5 + 50 offset. It seems this might be too wide?

http://www.forperformance.com/rays/w...te37/te37.html
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Old 01-12-2004, 11:08 PM   #2
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To answer your question, no a 8.5" wheel width isn't to big. I know that Kevin (Red Rocket) is running a 9" wheel width front and an 8.5" wheel width rear with no problems thus far.

Just an FYI, The 17x7.5_ET48 will NOT fit the STi, the reccommend fitment goes as follows: 17x8_ET44..... Here is the actual size table off of Rays website: TE37 size table

Rick

p.s. Even though Rays has a fitment of 17x8.5_ET50 for the STi, I have been having a tough time finding a member/vendor that has actaully test fitted this wheel for a confirmed fitment.
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Old 01-12-2004, 11:42 PM   #3
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Hmmm, this is wierd because if you look at that chart, the wheels with the larger off set also have the "circle" symbol beside tham that mark them for compatibility with Imprezas with large calipers....So what's that all about?

Also, the +44 is NOT market for Imprezas with large calipers while the +48 are clearly marked for Imprezas with big brake kits.
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Old 01-13-2004, 07:57 AM   #4
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Essogas,
Sorry to tell you again but you are wrong the 44mm offset is the correct offset and 48mm is the WRONG offset, just ask wgknestrick that is what he is running. Honestly I don't know how much more proof you really need/want, you have seen the picture, and have his screen name why not just email/PM him?

I just opened the fitment link here at work and have outlined the fitment as you can see it clearly states 44mm offset for a 17x8 wheel. Lastly it doesn't even show a fitment for a 7.5 width wheel when equipped with Brembo brakes. I have a feeling you were looking at "big calipers of IMPREZA (GC8)" which in that case is correct, yet you should be looking at fitments for the "BREMBO caliper of IMPREZA (GDB)" since you own an 04' STi.

Now here is the screen shot and highlighted area's (may look odd since I didn't download the language pack here at work) but all the info is the same, might just be in a different format:



Hope this helps,
Rick
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:51 AM   #5
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44mm is not a correct offset for a Subi .....
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Old 01-13-2004, 09:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
44mm is not a correct offset for a Subi .....
As always Luke comes to the rescue with the simple not correct statement, it's just Tirerack's reccommendation to not go below the 48mm (one affect is that a lower offset may ruin wheel bearings later in time). But I guess it comes down to anything that Tirerack doesn't carry won't be right . Not to mention that Tirerack has all of 3 wheels listed to choose from for fitment on an STi.

Rick
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Old 01-13-2004, 12:14 PM   #7
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Actually, Luke is correct.

By bringing the wheel out (lower offest), not only do you change the geometry of the suspension, but you also add load to the bearings by giving the wheel more leverage to hammer said bearings.

I have already discovered that the STis' suspension setup is unlike anything else I have ever experieced. My car has been lowered, but still there was erractic tire wear; on the OUTSIDE of the tire, rather than on the inside, as you would expect.

Luke's recomendation is actually correct if you are trying to look for a good balance of wear and useful suspension, rather than an erractic tire eating mess that you would get with these extreme offsets that are being suggested.

Just think about it like this:

Fuji Heavy Industries has clearly spent BILLIONS of dollars on product development and research, in both the racing and consumer markets.

It is probably a safe bet that they know what they are doing, wouldn't you think ami2fst4u?
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Old 01-13-2004, 12:19 PM   #8
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Okay, thanks for posting the chart. I completely overlooked the "brembo" fitment symbol and only saw the GC8. So thanks for bringing that to my attention.

But there are still more questions. The arguement is not weather the +44 fits, because they do and there is solid, undeniable proof about this now. because I did PM him and he said his +44 fits perfectly without spacers but he did not say how much clearance he has.

The question is not which offset fits, but which offset fits BEST. Doesn't logic say a bigger offset would also fit with even more clearance than his +44. He might only have 1mm between spokes and calipers and say it's "perfect".

Also, this might be a play on words but the chart for brembos may not mean BIG brembo brake kits because not all brembos are big. However the GC8 symbol is specific to large brakes for Imprezas. I was just thinking, if you follow the logic a larger offset with BIG caliper designation should fit even better, shouldn't it? So confused.
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2fcknfst
Luke's recomendation is actually correct if you are trying to look for a good balance of wear and useful suspension, rather than an erractic tire eating mess that you would get with these extreme offsets that are being suggested.

Just think about it like this:

Fuji Heavy Industries has clearly spent BILLIONS of dollars on product development and research, in both the racing and consumer markets.

It is probably a safe bet that they know what they are doing, wouldn't you think ami2fst4u?
First off, I totally agree with you that Fuji has sent a ton of $$$ on producing the STi for the USDM market. But if you throw the offset into the equation then wouldn't you think that anything different than the stock 53mm offset and stock width would affect your suspension? I would like to see that Subaru has stated you should ONLY run an offset between 48mm-55mm which Luke has stated in previous threads. Another thing is nothing is ever mentioned about width which plays just as big of a part in finding wheels as offset does.

BTW if you were to look, Tirerack sells the SSR Competition = 17x8.5_ET48, if you do the calculations that actually moves the wheel out 18mm more toward the fender than stock as well as the clearance from the inside of the wheel to the strut will be 8mm closer.

With that same example if you were to say run the Volk TE37 = 17x8_ET44, again doing the calculations it will move the wheel out 15mm more toward the fender than stock as well as the clearance between the inside of the wheel to the strut will be 3mm closer.

All work done using this nice little tool Wheel Offset Calculator....

So with that said it really depends on the combo in which you run, offset isn't everything as I have clearly shown (the TE37 actually has changed the geometry less in respects to overall clearance). You have to take in to account the width as well as the offset. Lastly as I said before it is Tirerack's reccommendation that you stay above the 48mm range (which I have shown isn't always true).

Quote:
Originally posted by essogas
The question is not which offset fits, but which offset fits BEST. Doesn't logic say a bigger offset would also fit with even more clearance than his +44. He might only have 1mm between spokes and calipers and say it's "perfect".

Also, this might be a play on words but the chart for brembos may not mean BIG brembo brake kits because not all brembos are big. However the GC8 symbol is specific to large brakes for Imprezas. I was just thinking, if you follow the logic a larger offset with BIG caliper designation should fit even better, shouldn't it? So confused.
Again it's not all on offset read my above examples, in actuality you can only chose the 44mm since the 48mm doesn't fit (which has been proven won't fit). If I were you maybe PM wgknestrick's again to ask the clearance between the caliper if your still concerned. Now logically I think that when they list BREMBO calipers it's actually pertaining to the factory equipped cars (which the GDB STi has), heck if it were a generic term then don't you think they would list fitments for Wilwood, Stop Tech, ect. Nevertheless wgknestrick has shown that the TE37 in an 44mm offset has fit without any ill affects.

Hope this helps,
Rick

p.s. Luke, the comments I make may seem like they are personally against you in some ways, but in actuality I am just trying to help educate our members more on the subject at hand.
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:51 PM   #10
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I have to agree with ami2fast4u on this one. Going from a 48 to a 44 offset will not affect wheel bearing or suspension gemoetry enough that it is an issue. If you plan on running the setup for 10 years then you may notice that your bearings go a few months or a few thousand km's before they otherwise would have come to the end of their life. Now if you jump down to say a 35 or 30 offset then I would take a different stance. I've got a bunch of Sti's coming in here and everyone goes for a 44-47 offset on aftermarket wheels. I have yet to have a Subaru come in the shop (80% of my customers are Subaru) with a complaint of odd tirewear, bad suspension problems due to changed geometry or worn bearings due to wheel offsets that are supposedly "wrong".
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:55 PM   #11
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I do not understand why this is such a hard issue to grasp .....

while the STi does have some dramtic differences from the WRX and normal Impreza the offset requirements and load requirements are exactly the same. We have gone through this for a couple of years now and now every "johnny come lately" who refuses to read the FAQ's and Sticky threads at the top of the page come on and say things that are not correct .... and we are again forced to go through this all over again ...... ......


come on people it's not rocket science


here's a test:

what is ackerman ???
what is scrub radius ???
what about load capacity is effected in offset changes
what are some of the primary advantages to a high offset wheel
what does altering the offset really affect

prove that you have some technical knowledge rather than posting spec sheets from other countries who's market requirements are extremely different than ours


care to answer any of the questions
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ami2fst4u
I am just trying to help educate our members more on the subject at hand.

educating people with incorrect statements you report as fact is not a good thing


You probably think this car has an acceptable offset wheel as well

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 01-13-2004 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 01-13-2004, 02:24 PM   #13
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http://www.junauto.co.jp/democar/gdb/spec.html?en

17X8.5 Advan only come in a +43 offset in a 5x100 bolt pattern.

Looks to fit on a WRX just fine. They may have rolled the fenders though.
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Old 01-13-2004, 02:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
educating people with incorrect statements you report as fact is not a good thing


You probably think this car has an acceptable offset wheel as well
Haha very funny Luke . I was just trying to help give a little more info on offset than your typical "44mm is not a correct offset for a Subi ....." response. All I was trying to show was an example of what happens when you change both offset and width, and not what is the load capacity, scrub radius, ect. Nothing more, nothing less. So you can lay off now... As for the other questions you ask, I honestly can't answer most of them due to the fact that it's not my profession.

So much for trying to help explain what happens when offset/widths are changed which is only part of the changes take place when changing wheels.

Rick
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Old 01-13-2004, 02:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ami2fst4u
So much for trying to help explain what happens when offset/widths are changed which is only part of the changes take place when changing wheels.

Ha! That's a funny picture, Luke But to the matter at hand. It's true, you do have to take wheel width into consideration. I just spoke to the shop that test fitted the Gram Lights and they told me TE-37's with a 48mm offset will NOT work. It must be +44 for this wheel with no spacers. So, ami2fst4u has siad this, the guy that has them on his car shows that they fit, and my shop says the same. At this point, it's good enough for me and I consider it CASE CLOSED. I'm ordering 17X8 +44 5X100 bolt pattern Limited Edition, Mercury Silver TE-37's tomorrow unless someone can show me an equivalent wheel in 18" And I on't want the SSR's. Too many complaints about them for my liking and you get what you pay for.
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Old 01-13-2004, 02:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by essogas
I'm ordering 17X8 +44 5X100 bolt pattern Limited Edition, Mercury Silver TE-37's tomorrow
Post up picks when you get them, I can't wait to see what they look like on your STi. You must be (happy).

Rick
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Old 01-13-2004, 03:38 PM   #17
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repeat after me "wheel design has more of an effect on brake clearance than offset"

and just for fun here are the CORRECT answers to the questions I posted

#1.) the suspension geometry that turns the inside front tire at a higher angle the the outside front tire in a corner

#2.) the intersection of the tire centerline and the suspension upright centerline which can have a dramtic effect on handling if altered to much

#3.) offset does effect load capacity of a wheel I really don't want to go into the percentage kilo changes ....

#4.) reduction of torque steer

#5.) tramlining, bearing wear, torque steer, load capacity, handling and the list actually goes on and on ....
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Old 01-13-2004, 04:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
just for fun here are the CORRECT answers to the questions I posted

#1.) the suspension geometry that turns the inside front tire at a higher angle the the outside front tire in a corner

#2.) the intersection of the tire centerline and the suspension upright centerline which can have a dramtic effect on handling if altered to much

#3.) offset does effect load capacity of a wheel I really don't want to go into the percentage kilo changes ....

#4.) reduction of torque steer

#5.) tramlining, bearing wear, torque steer, load capacity, handling and the list actually goes on and on ....
Luke,
Thanks for posting your comments, that is the type of response I like to see. I know you have probably posted such info like the numerous times but honestly it is alot better then just tossing out a statement like: "that is the wrong offset". I appreciate all your help and the info you bring to the boards.

BTW, I totally agree and have posted many times offset isn't everything. You have to take into consideration width, offset, wheel design, ect. when choosing a wheel to fit properly.

Rick

p.s. Ahhh just another typical fun day on the boards @ NASIOC .
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Old 01-13-2004, 04:38 PM   #19
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It just gets old going through this every 6 months .... that's why we have the tech threads and sticky threads at the top of the page ..... but, you point is well made
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Old 01-13-2004, 04:52 PM   #20
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I understand how it gets old, I too have to deal with repeating facts weekly/monthly in my profession as a Mechanical Designer. Nevertheless I have a question that is off topic for you, when will Tirerack be getting in the SSR Competition in an 18" fitment?

Thanks again,
Rick
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Old 01-13-2004, 04:58 PM   #21
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1-30-04
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Old 01-13-2004, 05:06 PM   #22
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and just for the record .... I am not saying the 44mm won't fit what I am saying is that it is not a correct fit and will adversely effect the car and handling ... vehicle dynamics and stability are not something to start playing with


.... even this guy probably thinks his wheel fit correctly
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Old 01-13-2004, 05:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
and just for the record .... I am not saying the 44mm won't fit what I am saying is that it is not a correct fit and will adversely effect the car and handling ... vehicle dynamics and stability are not something to start playing with
Ahh, it's talk like this that makes me reconsider...AGAIN How much will those 18" SSR's cost?
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Old 01-13-2004, 09:32 PM   #24
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While I am not dissagreeing with what Luke has stated about the bearing wear issues, I will state that almost all track going and serious autocrossing Imprezas in the world use rims with an offset lower than 48.

I personally do not see any reason to go larger than a 7.5 or 8 inch wheel on the street as you can get up to a 235 45 17 and a 245 40 17 on rims of that width, which should be plenty. Plus both sizes are readily available in a 48 offset. However, when you do start getting to a 245 or larger tire in racing rubber, the inside edge of the tire gets dangerously close (rubbing even) to the strut body. While wheel design has more of an effect on brake caliper clearance than offset; Offset has more of an effect on tire to strut clearance, seeing as how wheel design wouldn't affect that at all.

And while there may very well be a handling drawback to putting 18x8.5 +43 Advans on an Impreza, obviously Jun (and several other racing tuners in Japan) have found that the ability to put 245, 255, or even 265 width race tires on the cars outweighs the drawbacks.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:40 AM   #25
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I don't care how much of a 'racer' you think you are all of the information you posted about fitments on race cars means absolutely nothing to a street driven car ..... Also, many things done in Japan are not even remotely similar to what is acceptable in the US .... there are Japanese tuners who run up to 8 degrees of negative camber to gain tire to fender clearance .....
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