Lexus's big mistake

Eric · 06-08-2000, 10:22 AM

The invited me to a 'performance test drive' of the new IS300. Looks like a cone course. Oh man, Im going to tear the tires right off that car, I hope they fill them up! And we get to comparison drive a few of the IS300 competitors, a BMW 328i and an Audi A4 2.8 Quattro. Think theyll let me take the Scooby out? The promo booklet says "ride shotgun with a professional driver at speeds of more than 100 miles per hour" and "you'll also get behind the wheel and test the blah blah blah"

Hmmm, 100mph in FedEx field's parking lot? Its big, but not that big. I hope they have timing equipment! Im will defintly tax all the cars they let me in, and post my impressions here!

Eric
Silver 99 RS

RidinLow · 06-08-2000, 10:24 AM

Sounds like fun! I wonder if they'll equip all 3 of those cars with their sport packages. The 3 & the A4 suck with the standard 15" or 16" all season rubber, depending on the model.

~G

Snoopy · 06-08-2000, 10:27 AM

When are they gonna do this? FedEx Field(Redskins Stadium, right?) is only an 8 minute drive for me. I'd like to see this event.

Scoobyfan · 06-08-2000, 10:28 AM

How did you land that? Do you work for Autoweek?

Eric · 06-08-2000, 10:38 AM

No, its invite only

and they wont even let me bring my kid, to watch.

It actually came addressed to my wife. She gets these things all the time. We were invited to see and buy one of those Honda CRV's when they first came out, ahead of the release date or something. I tossed that one, no interest at all. Plus no sales guys at the Lexus event!

Eric
Silver 99 RS

Snoopy · 06-08-2000, 10:41 AM

Well....I'd like to do some spy photos. Just gimme the date and approzimate time and I promise you won't see me, thanks to my zoom lens camera.

lackey · 06-08-2000, 10:43 AM

Sounds like BMW's Ultimate Driving Experience. Has anyone been to one of those? Last year, the focus was the introduction of the E46 3-series, this year its the X5. I got invited this year and went. It was a blast. Those X5s, while being quite tall, feel pretty stable about the small autocross course they set out. There are a number of experienced instructors there who'll answer all your questions and show you the way to do it. You can also drive a wide selection of BMW automobiles on publics roads, without anyone in the car with you. And no sales guys! It was a fun afternoon, and it was free!
I've heard from people who've gone to the Lexus thing that it isn't as involving as BMWs and more structured. The food is supposed to be better though.

Eric · 06-08-2000, 10:54 AM

Ummm, free food.

Structure, we will have none of that. Do they bring detail guys to get the cone marks off the cars? Cuz at the least, ill take out a few just for fun, if it is a 'tight autocross' course. Im hoping for some long sweepers and maybe a slalom or two. And of course a tight 180 to get a good drift going!

Eric
Silver 99 RS

Bahumut · 06-08-2000, 02:08 PM

I hope it controls better than it did in Gran Turismo 2!! No Rear Wheel Drive car should have that much understeer!! You'd think it was AWD!!

Aspen · 06-08-2000, 02:58 PM

Actually,
I think the Toyota Altezza handles very good for a rear wheel sedan in GT2. I think it is one of the most neutral handling rear wheel drive cars in the game. Turn-in is excellent and very predictable. That is one of the few rear wheel drive cars that I hardly spin in.
I'm not sure if you have to option of getting the American version so that might be a little different. I'll have to check the game again.

The new Lexus IS300(Toyota Altezza)is a ripoff imho. Most dealers are only going to get the preferred equipment pkg which will retail around $35k. I have a hard time seeing people shelling out that much $ when they can get the BMW 323CI or wait a few months and get the newly redesigned C class from Mercedes. I think it would sell a lot more cars if it were around 26-27k retail.

I also don't like the fact that the American versions are going to have the heavy 6cylinder engine instead of the high revving 4. I'm pretty sure it will compromise some handling characteristics of the original.

I do like the fact that the E-shift on the IS300 is a lot quicker than the BMW 323ci.

I drove a BMW 323ci to death and the e-shift was very very slow.

Volvorules · 06-08-2000, 04:29 PM

Aspen, the IS200/Altezza has a 2.0L 6, not a 4...and comes with a 6-spd too. The 6-spd isn't strong enough to take the torque of the 3 liter, but the US will get a 5spd sometime next year.

And Eric - have fun, wish I could join you, cause I love that car!!

Rob

06-08-2000, 09:01 PM

Eric,

Have fun! It'll be really funny when you screw with the instructors heads and drift hard into a corner. I doubt that you'll be able to hit 100 at the "Jack", the lot is big but I cant imagine Lexus letting you throw the car around at high speed. Just show those instructors who's the man, kinda like you do at the Auto-X.

Jeff

N/A · 06-08-2000, 09:18 PM

Eric- When you get in do me a favor? Put the car in reverse, gun the engine, get up to about 40mph, use the hand brake and turn the wheel. Spin it around Rockford Files style! Then if they ask tell them you like to test ALL the gears.

After that do whatever you like as long as it involves driving them like a damn rental car! Sorry I'm on a caffene rush from lunch. Just keep saying to the Lexus guys, Yah its nice but does it have AWD?

lackey · 06-08-2000, 10:28 PM

Volvorules- There are two engines available in the Japanese market. One is a 2.0-liter inline six that makes 150hp or so. The other is a 2.0-liter 210hp VVTi 4-cylinder. Personally, I'd rather have the US-market 3.0-liter.
I think the target Lexus is aiming for is the 328i. Notice, the engine's output is in line with the upcoming 3.0-liter inline-6 of the 330i. Its expensive 3-series performance for "cheap" 3-series money.
Personally, I'll take the 330i.

Aspen · 06-09-2000, 10:05 AM

Volvorules,

Lackey hit it on the spot. The japanese versions have different engines than the US version. They decided to go with a 6cylinder for the US shores because more Americans seem to like torquey cars and torque generally translates to power with the avg person.

I would personally wait for the new C class MB. Very sweet looking.

22B_WannaBe · 06-09-2000, 10:59 AM

Get ready for a treat, the IS300 is an awesome car. I drove one in Hong Kong a few months ago, outstanding performence for a mid-priced luxery car. I want one

Eric · 06-09-2000, 02:34 PM

Hmmm, I used to stay up late to watch RF on DC20 when I was a kid. I loved that opening, slinging that car around like that. Maybe that and all the times I watched Cannonball Run led to my addiction. To speed that is, and not the kind that comes in pill form. I will definitly quiz the guy on why Toyota doesnt make an AWD car for the US, and backed out of Rally. But then again, they'll probably take one look at my RS and discount my every word because I dont drive something that cost over 30K. But then again, these are not supposed to be sales people. I just hope they have a fast course set up. Thanks guy's, Ill post my impressions when I get back.

Eric
Silver 99 RS

TEG · 06-10-2000, 02:11 AM

If anyone really cares about the IS300, take a visit to is300.net

At those driving events they don't let you drive on the high speed track... Just ride with a professional driver.

They do let you do a slalom course, but they watch your speed and kick you off the course if you drive too wildly.

synthman · 06-10-2000, 03:34 AM

Does anyone else agree with Aspen that the IS300 is a ripoff? I sure don't. Yeah, Toyota would sell more if it were under $30,000, but considering that you get 328i performance for 323i price, I don't see how anyone could complain. As for the new Mercedes C-class, I don't think that the baby Mercs have ever been as satisfying, performance-wise, as the little Bimmers. I mean, is the new C-class even going to come with a manual? I don't think that the old one ever did.
I'm particularly glad that we're getting a six-cylinder engine in the car here in the States. Over in England they just get a four-cylinder that makes, like, 150hp. Now, if they were selling that over here for $35k, that I WOULD call a ripoff.

euroauto · 06-10-2000, 07:48 AM

Stay posted, the wife and I are going to test drive a IS300 this afternoon. Dealer called yesterday to let us know they had a demo in stock. Looked at a show car two weeks ago but it was a non driver. So it's the IS300 or the GS400. Anyone want a 91 Q45 cheap only 43000 miles!

Eric · 06-10-2000, 09:15 AM

So what does driving wildly mean? Is that pushing thru every turn and banging the rev limiter, or is it hanging the rearend out in a beautiful controlled RWD drift?

Id have a hard time believing they would kick me out of a 'performance test drive' in a 'controlled situation' for 'testing the limits of the car'. That is why its not on public roads, right?

Eric
Silver 99 RS

[This message has been edited by Eric (edited June 10, 2000).]

lackey · 06-10-2000, 10:39 AM

synthman- The 2001 C-class will be available in North America with a manual transmission. A 6-speed manual, in fact. It will be available with the C230 Kompressor. Although I doubt that the new C-class with trump the 3-series in handling ability, it has been redesigned to be more a driver's car than old.

dead-eye · 06-10-2000, 09:48 PM

Eric,
Hate to tell you this, but they will NOT let you take the car to the limit. I attended the IS300 test drive last week. There are speed limits posted and they encourage you to observe them. If you drive too fast, they will mark your ID badge. 2 strikes and you're out.

ceejay · 06-10-2000, 10:39 PM

Hey gusy,

I actually went to the invite today (sat 10); That car runs pretty well... better than both the A4 and the 328. I'm so glad I didn't buy the A4.. I love my RS.. I thought the A4 2.8 was really sluggish... didn't like the handling at all. The bimmer was pretty good, but the Lex takes the prize..... cornering... etc.. just wish they had it in a manual. I pushed it a few times around the course; there was one part where they spilled dirt purposely.. I kinda wasn't paying attention... and the car slid when I hit the brakes.. but it handled pretty well.. and I recovered... well, good luck whoever is going.
And by the way, you are allowed to bring a guest; I did.

cj
Blue my98 RS

NeedaScooby · 06-11-2000, 12:52 AM

I am going to be a 'guest' at the drive in Boston next weekend. I enjoyed the Lexus drive last summer where they had all they're models and rivals. My favorite that day had to be the MB clk430-awesome car.
Anyway i am preety pumped to get behind the wheel of the IS300. I really like it-even though it is NOT coming with a manuel ever. That coming from the horses mouth. Lexus said it was "to expesive w/ epa approval"
That right there will be there biggest mistake if they're going after BMW. The e-shift on my fathers GS400 works rather well, I have been impressed with it-however it is not a manuel but it is very responsive none the less.
Hope to have fun

--D

06-08-2000, 10:22 AM	#1
Eric Scooby Newbie Member#: 48 Join Date: Jun 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA Vehicle: xxxx	Lexus's big mistake The invited me to a 'performance test drive' of the new IS300. Looks like a cone course. Oh man, Im going to tear the tires right off that car, I hope they fill them up! And we get to comparison drive a few of the IS300 competitors, a BMW 328i and an Audi A4 2.8 Quattro. Think theyll let me take the Scooby out? The promo booklet says "ride shotgun with a professional driver at speeds of more than 100 miles per hour" and "you'll also get behind the wheel and test the blah blah blah" Hmmm, 100mph in FedEx field's parking lot? Its big, but not that big. I hope they have timing equipment! Im will defintly tax all the cars they let me in, and post my impressions here! Eric Silver 99 RS

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06-08-2000, 10:24 AM	#2
RidinLow Scooby Guru Member#: 329 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 1999 C5	Sounds like fun! I wonder if they'll equip all 3 of those cars with their sport packages. The 3 & the A4 suck with the standard 15" or 16" all season rubber, depending on the model. ~G

06-08-2000, 10:27 AM	#3
Snoopy Scooby Specialist Member#: 700 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: BANNED! Vehicle: 99 Impreza RS Silverthorn Metallic	When are they gonna do this? FedEx Field(Redskins Stadium, right?) is only an 8 minute drive for me. I'd like to see this event.

06-08-2000, 10:28 AM	#4
Scoobyfan Scooby Newbie Member#: 220 Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Hanover, PA, USA	How did you land that? Do you work for Autoweek?

06-08-2000, 10:38 AM	#5
Eric Scooby Newbie Member#: 48 Join Date: Jun 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA Vehicle: xxxx	No, its invite only and they wont even let me bring my kid, to watch. It actually came addressed to my wife. She gets these things all the time. We were invited to see and buy one of those Honda CRV's when they first came out, ahead of the release date or something. I tossed that one, no interest at all. Plus no sales guys at the Lexus event! Eric Silver 99 RS

06-08-2000, 10:41 AM	#6
Snoopy Scooby Specialist Member#: 700 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: BANNED! Vehicle: 99 Impreza RS Silverthorn Metallic	Well....I'd like to do some spy photos. Just gimme the date and approzimate time and I promise you won't see me, thanks to my zoom lens camera.

06-08-2000, 10:43 AM	#7
lackey Scooby Newbie Member#: 209 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Dallas,Tx, USA	Sounds like BMW's Ultimate Driving Experience. Has anyone been to one of those? Last year, the focus was the introduction of the E46 3-series, this year its the X5. I got invited this year and went. It was a blast. Those X5s, while being quite tall, feel pretty stable about the small autocross course they set out. There are a number of experienced instructors there who'll answer all your questions and show you the way to do it. You can also drive a wide selection of BMW automobiles on publics roads, without anyone in the car with you. And no sales guys! It was a fun afternoon, and it was free! I've heard from people who've gone to the Lexus thing that it isn't as involving as BMWs and more structured. The food is supposed to be better though.

06-08-2000, 10:54 AM	#8
Eric Scooby Newbie Member#: 48 Join Date: Jun 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA Vehicle: xxxx	Ummm, free food. Structure, we will have none of that. Do they bring detail guys to get the cone marks off the cars? Cuz at the least, ill take out a few just for fun, if it is a 'tight autocross' course. Im hoping for some long sweepers and maybe a slalom or two. And of course a tight 180 to get a good drift going! Eric Silver 99 RS

06-08-2000, 02:08 PM	#9
Bahumut Scooby Newbie Member#: 460 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Overland Park, KS, USA Vehicle: 1995 Impreza Wagon Brilliant Red/Slade	I hope it controls better than it did in Gran Turismo 2!! No Rear Wheel Drive car should have that much understeer!! You'd think it was AWD!!

06-08-2000, 02:58 PM	#10
Aspen Scooby Specialist Member#: 145 Join Date: Aug 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: The Windy City Vehicle: Banned to Housework for Summer	Actually, I think the Toyota Altezza handles very good for a rear wheel sedan in GT2. I think it is one of the most neutral handling rear wheel drive cars in the game. Turn-in is excellent and very predictable. That is one of the few rear wheel drive cars that I hardly spin in. I'm not sure if you have to option of getting the American version so that might be a little different. I'll have to check the game again. The new Lexus IS300(Toyota Altezza)is a ripoff imho. Most dealers are only going to get the preferred equipment pkg which will retail around $35k. I have a hard time seeing people shelling out that much $ when they can get the BMW 323CI or wait a few months and get the newly redesigned C class from Mercedes. I think it would sell a lot more cars if it were around 26-27k retail. I also don't like the fact that the American versions are going to have the heavy 6cylinder engine instead of the high revving 4. I'm pretty sure it will compromise some handling characteristics of the original. I do like the fact that the E-shift on the IS300 is a lot quicker than the BMW 323ci. I drove a BMW 323ci to death and the e-shift was very very slow.

06-08-2000, 04:29 PM	#11
Volvorules Scooby Newbie Member#: 1243 Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Chevy Chase, MD, USA	Aspen, the IS200/Altezza has a 2.0L 6, not a 4...and comes with a 6-spd too. The 6-spd isn't strong enough to take the torque of the 3 liter, but the US will get a 5spd sometime next year. And Eric - have fun, wish I could join you, cause I love that car!! Rob

06-08-2000, 09:01 PM	#12
Riot Squad Guest Member#:	Eric, Have fun! It'll be really funny when you screw with the instructors heads and drift hard into a corner. I doubt that you'll be able to hit 100 at the "Jack", the lot is big but I cant imagine Lexus letting you throw the car around at high speed. Just show those instructors who's the man, kinda like you do at the Auto-X. Jeff

06-08-2000, 09:18 PM	#13
N/A Scooby Specialist Member#: 133 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Maryland (not by choice) Vehicle: 2003 Echo-daily car silver	Eric- When you get in do me a favor? Put the car in reverse, gun the engine, get up to about 40mph, use the hand brake and turn the wheel. Spin it around Rockford Files style! Then if they ask tell them you like to test ALL the gears. After that do whatever you like as long as it involves driving them like a damn rental car! Sorry I'm on a caffene rush from lunch. Just keep saying to the Lexus guys, Yah its nice but does it have AWD?

06-08-2000, 10:28 PM	#14
lackey Scooby Newbie Member#: 209 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Dallas,Tx, USA	Volvorules- There are two engines available in the Japanese market. One is a 2.0-liter inline six that makes 150hp or so. The other is a 2.0-liter 210hp VVTi 4-cylinder. Personally, I'd rather have the US-market 3.0-liter. I think the target Lexus is aiming for is the 328i. Notice, the engine's output is in line with the upcoming 3.0-liter inline-6 of the 330i. Its expensive 3-series performance for "cheap" 3-series money. Personally, I'll take the 330i.

06-09-2000, 10:05 AM	#15
Aspen Scooby Specialist Member#: 145 Join Date: Aug 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: The Windy City Vehicle: Banned to Housework for Summer	Volvorules, Lackey hit it on the spot. The japanese versions have different engines than the US version. They decided to go with a 6cylinder for the US shores because more Americans seem to like torquey cars and torque generally translates to power with the avg person. I would personally wait for the new C class MB. Very sweet looking.

06-09-2000, 10:59 AM	#16
22B_WannaBe Scooby Newbie Member#: 879 Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Victoria	Get ready for a treat, the IS300 is an awesome car. I drove one in Hong Kong a few months ago, outstanding performence for a mid-priced luxery car. I want one

06-09-2000, 02:34 PM	#17
Eric Scooby Newbie Member#: 48 Join Date: Jun 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA Vehicle: xxxx	Hmmm, I used to stay up late to watch RF on DC20 when I was a kid. I loved that opening, slinging that car around like that. Maybe that and all the times I watched Cannonball Run led to my addiction. To speed that is, and not the kind that comes in pill form. I will definitly quiz the guy on why Toyota doesnt make an AWD car for the US, and backed out of Rally. But then again, they'll probably take one look at my RS and discount my every word because I dont drive something that cost over 30K. But then again, these are not supposed to be sales people. I just hope they have a fast course set up. Thanks guy's, Ill post my impressions when I get back. Eric Silver 99 RS

06-10-2000, 02:11 AM	#18
TEG Scooby Newbie Member#: 798 Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Mountain View, CA	If anyone really cares about the IS300, take a visit to is300.net At those driving events they don't let you drive on the high speed track... Just ride with a professional driver. They do let you do a slalom course, but they watch your speed and kick you off the course if you drive too wildly.

06-10-2000, 03:34 AM	#19
synthman Scooby Newbie Member#: 1019 Join Date: Mar 2000	Does anyone else agree with Aspen that the IS300 is a ripoff? I sure don't. Yeah, Toyota would sell more if it were under $30,000, but considering that you get 328i performance for 323i price, I don't see how anyone could complain. As for the new Mercedes C-class, I don't think that the baby Mercs have ever been as satisfying, performance-wise, as the little Bimmers. I mean, is the new C-class even going to come with a manual? I don't think that the old one ever did. I'm particularly glad that we're getting a six-cylinder engine in the car here in the States. Over in England they just get a four-cylinder that makes, like, 150hp. Now, if they were selling that over here for $35k, that I WOULD call a ripoff.

06-10-2000, 07:48 AM	#20
euroauto Scooby Specialist Member#: 249 Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: park city ut Vehicle: 05 FXT psm 06 E55	Stay posted, the wife and I are going to test drive a IS300 this afternoon. Dealer called yesterday to let us know they had a demo in stock. Looked at a show car two weeks ago but it was a non driver. So it's the IS300 or the GS400. Anyone want a 91 Q45 cheap only 43000 miles!

06-10-2000, 09:15 AM	#21
Eric Scooby Newbie Member#: 48 Join Date: Jun 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA Vehicle: xxxx	So what does driving wildly mean? Is that pushing thru every turn and banging the rev limiter, or is it hanging the rearend out in a beautiful controlled RWD drift? Id have a hard time believing they would kick me out of a 'performance test drive' in a 'controlled situation' for 'testing the limits of the car'. That is why its not on public roads, right? Eric Silver 99 RS [This message has been edited by Eric (edited June 10, 2000).]

06-10-2000, 10:39 AM	#22
lackey Scooby Newbie Member#: 209 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Dallas,Tx, USA	synthman- The 2001 C-class will be available in North America with a manual transmission. A 6-speed manual, in fact. It will be available with the C230 Kompressor. Although I doubt that the new C-class with trump the 3-series in handling ability, it has been redesigned to be more a driver's car than old.

06-10-2000, 09:48 PM	#23
dead-eye Scooby Specialist Member#: 43 Join Date: Jun 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Keokuk IA Vehicle: 1999 2.5RS no T RBP	Eric, Hate to tell you this, but they will NOT let you take the car to the limit. I attended the IS300 test drive last week. There are speed limits posted and they encourage you to observe them. If you drive too fast, they will mark your ID badge. 2 strikes and you're out.

06-10-2000, 10:39 PM	#24
ceejay Scooby Newbie Member#: 973 Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Spring Valley, NY, USA	Hey gusy, I actually went to the invite today (sat 10); That car runs pretty well... better than both the A4 and the 328. I'm so glad I didn't buy the A4.. I love my RS.. I thought the A4 2.8 was really sluggish... didn't like the handling at all. The bimmer was pretty good, but the Lex takes the prize..... cornering... etc.. just wish they had it in a manual. I pushed it a few times around the course; there was one part where they spilled dirt purposely.. I kinda wasn't paying attention... and the car slid when I hit the brakes.. but it handled pretty well.. and I recovered... well, good luck whoever is going. And by the way, you are allowed to bring a guest; I did. cj Blue my98 RS

06-11-2000, 12:52 AM	#25
NeedaScooby Scooby Specialist Member#: 1179 Join Date: Mar 2000 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: WP Vehicle: ?? I don't own one See Above	I am going to be a 'guest' at the drive in Boston next weekend. I enjoyed the Lexus drive last summer where they had all they're models and rivals. My favorite that day had to be the MB clk430-awesome car. Anyway i am preety pumped to get behind the wheel of the IS300. I really like it-even though it is NOT coming with a manuel ever. That coming from the horses mouth. Lexus said it was "to expesive w/ epa approval" That right there will be there biggest mistake if they're going after BMW. The e-shift on my fathers GS400 works rather well, I have been impressed with it-however it is not a manuel but it is very responsive none the less. Hope to have fun --D