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Old 01-13-2004, 02:58 PM   #1
no_rex_yet
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Question Legacy H6 rear upgrade vs. Subaru 4 pots

I'm debating b/t the two for my wrx wagon. From searches, it seems that the 4 pots offer much better feel, and added fade resistance at the track.

The Legacy rears on the other hand, with my stock fronts, will give me a similar rearward shift in brake bias, which I assume will provide better overall feel.

I do not track the car, but may start in the near future. I'm looking primarily for better feel, and perhaps shorter stopping distance. I've already added Valvoline synthetic, goodridge lines, and Axis Deluxe pads.

So are the 4 pots overkill for me? It's about a $300 difference in price b/t these 2 options. Thanks for any input.
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Old 01-13-2004, 03:42 PM   #2
gtguy
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I have the 4-pots, and love 'em. They didn't change the brake bias, FWIW, that I can feel.

Kevin
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Old 01-13-2004, 04:18 PM   #3
cdigerlando
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Default Current Upgrades

I'm thinking about the same upgrades as you. What did you think of the Axis Pads, lines, and fluid? Feel any improvement in stopping distance, or just feel?
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Old 01-13-2004, 05:01 PM   #4
no_rex_yet
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Default Re: Current Upgrades

The lines and fluid yielded much firmer pedal feel. The Deluxe pads were so-so, as they seem to have even less initial bite than the oem pads. I would go with the Carbotech bobcat pads if I were to do it again. Lines are definately worth it though. Go for the coated Stoptechs.

Quote:
Originally posted by cdigerlando
I'm thinking about the same upgrades as you. What did you think of the Axis Pads, lines, and fluid? Feel any improvement in stopping distance, or just feel?
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Old 01-13-2004, 05:11 PM   #5
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I would definitely get the Sti 4-pots first....if you think you need mroe after then think about getting the H6 rears. You will notice far more difference by going to the 4-pots with ss lines and some good fluid and a good pad.
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Old 01-13-2004, 09:57 PM   #6
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Do the H6 first. The point of the H6 upgrade is to shift the brake balance toward the rear more, which is where it is needed.

The WRX brakes are WAY front biased, and the H6 mod moves it rearward. The 4-pots actually have a bit less overall torque than the stock front USDM WRX brakes.......SO.....

Do the H6 first.

I have both, 4-pots and H6 rears.
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Old 01-13-2004, 10:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Scotty
The 4-pots actually have a bit less overall torque than the stock front USDM WRX brakes.......SO.....
So wouldn't that also shift brake balance to the rear?
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Old 01-14-2004, 04:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by driggity
So wouldn't that also shift brake balance to the rear?
Yes....and in my case, a bit too much...I feel with my current suspension setup and weight balance that I have too much rear brake bias and I need to get rear pads with a bit less bite than the Ultimates....

Any suggestions on rear pads with a little less bite than the Ultimates would be appreciated.

My intent in the statement I made in my previous post is that just doing the H6 rear mod is probably the best(and easiest and cheapest) way to achieve better braking in the USDM WRX
....IF SS lines, high quality pads and fluid don't get you to where you want to be with the brakes.
Do the H6 first, and then go from there. I kinda wish I had, and maybe saved myself some $$$ by not buying the 4-pot fronts.
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Old 01-14-2004, 06:42 AM   #9
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I agree: Legacy rotors in the back, first!!

The 4-pots assist with feel and with track fade. Under normal driving, most people don't notice any improvement in actual performance, which makes sense considering the same rotor diameter is basically maintained up front.

Added to that, most front brake upgrades don't consider the rears, but you at least have that in mind. Upgrading both is extremely important, if you ask me. But since the 4-pot front calipers retain the OEM-size rotors, upgrade the rears first. For a street-driven car, that'll be the big change.

-S2-
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:56 AM   #10
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Wow, is nasioc actually trying to save me money? Amazing! Looks like I'll opt for just the H6 for now.

Scotty, if you want pads with less bite, try the Axxis Deluxe, which I have now -- they have pretty much no bite! Perhaps they'll help you out.

Here's an add-on question: I also need to replace my front rotors, as they are hot-spotted or warped. Should I just go oem, or try some slotted ones? I was considering the Carbotech slotted rotors. $89 a piece, pretty reasonable.
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:45 AM   #11
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I have the slotted rotors(dba4000's in front and 657's in back) and the slots add the bling factor....BUT.....I'm not sure that the faster wearing pads and hence the added brake dust on the wheels, as well as added initial cost is worth it....

I don't think I'll buy the slotted rotors again.

Also, no_rex_yet, I don't think that the Delux pads are in my near future....thanks
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Old 01-14-2004, 02:57 PM   #12
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I was using the same as Uncle Scotty, ie STi 4 pots in the front and H6 in the rear. I too found the brake bias to be a bit too much towards the rear when pushed hard at the track. I decided to keep the 4 pots and went back to stock rears for two reasons. The first is that I already had a few sets of street and track pads and the second is the fact that changing pads on the 4pots is faster than on the USDM 2pots by simply removing the safety pins.

Changing back to stock rears seems like there is a little more pedal travel, allowing a little more range for feel and adequate pressure.

BTW, I use Carbotech Panther Plus at the track and Bobcats on the street. Great pads, compatible compounds and great service too !
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Old 01-15-2004, 07:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by no_rex_yet
Scotty, if you want pads with less bite, try the Axxis Deluxe, which I have now -- they have pretty much no bite!


You're right, they totally suck. You guys might try Metal Masters as a cheap alternative between the Deluxe and the Ultimates.

I personally despise all things Axxis now. They are like the Kia of brake pads...
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Old 01-15-2004, 08:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sdecker
I personally despise all things Axxis now. They are like the Kia of brake pads...
LOL

Having used the metal masters and feeling their performance were so so.....I'd probably have to agree with you.....however there are definitely worse pads
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
LOL

Having used the metal masters and feeling their performance were so so.....I'd probably have to agree with you.....however there are definitely worse pads
You are correct sir!!! Can you say E-B-C? I knew you could.
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:36 PM   #16
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yup.....hehe
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Old 01-15-2004, 07:54 PM   #17
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I did a full upgrade on my RS two weeks ago, I did WRX brakes and calipers up front (11.4in vs 10.7in rotors) and H6 rears (11.3 vs 10.3in) and coated Goodridge lines w/ Superblue fluid. I'm still running stock pads while I get used to the new setup. I really like it, it seems more balanced and definitley feels better, but I'd attribute that more to the lines than to the added rear braking. It's noticeably better, and it's fun being able to brake hard enough to feel the blood run out of the back of your head. I also did this since I work in a Subaru parts dept. and I could convert the rears for less than 200....Either way, I don't think you can really lose
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackfeetVI
I really like it, it seems more balanced and definitley feels better, but I'd attribute that more to the lines than to the added rear braking.
My thought?

It's more balanced because of the upgraded rotors.

It FEELS better because of the lines.




Here's what baffles me. Some say that the Legacy rotors in the car make it feel too rearward-biased (for some, anyway). Well... that's the stock setup in a lot of Subaru's cars, so do they feel that way from the factory??

-S2-
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Old 01-16-2004, 10:45 AM   #19
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Well, my rear H6 setup should be in the mail from wrxparts.com. I'll be having it installed, along with new oem rotors up front in a few days. Still keeping my crappy Axxis Deluxe "Plus" pads for now, as they still have lots of life left.

I'll post my results when everything is done. Thanks to everyone for their input.
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Siper2

Here's what baffles me. Some say that the Legacy rotors in the car make it feel too rearward-biased (for some, anyway). Well... that's the stock setup in a lot of Subaru's cars, so do they feel that way from the factory??

-S2-
The 'stock' bias in the WRX( and almost all production cars) is most definitely too far to the front by most all accounts.....like 80%F/20%R.
Cars from the factory are setup that way on purpose because too much rear bias makes the car unstable under hard braking and in anything other than dry conditions....for the same reason most cars are setup from the factory with(gross) understeer....that is so John Q. Public can crash them with confidence, and without that 'out of control' feeling.
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Old 01-16-2004, 01:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Scotty
....that is so John Q. Public can crash them with confidence, and without that 'out of control' feeling.
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Old 01-16-2004, 03:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by no_rex_yet
Well, my rear H6 setup should be in the mail from wrxparts.com. I'll be having it installed, along with new oem rotors up front in a few days. Still keeping my crappy Axxis Deluxe "Plus" pads for now, as they still have lots of life left.

I'll post my results when everything is done. Thanks to everyone for their input.
I've got the same pads. What don't you like about them? Once bedded in, they seem to work pretty well. I'm sure I could fade them on the track without much trouble, but on the street they're more than enough. Initial bite is about the same as stock and they are supposed to be easier on the rotors. I never really have cared about dust, but they do seem to dust a little less than stock.

-JL
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