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Old 01-15-2004, 06:15 PM   #1
carguy19
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Default What are your feelings on the PE1820 turbo....

for the STI, better then the VF-22??

Is it direct bolt on??
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Old 01-15-2004, 07:49 PM   #2
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I don't see why it wouldnt be direct bolt-on for the STi although I havent heard of anyone putting it on the car.

Alot of people have described it as a VF30 on crack. I would think the 1200-1500 you will pay for it would be better spent on a bigger turbo.

I would just as soon have a VF22 ported and polished than spend the extra money on the pe1820 on a Sti.
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Old 01-15-2004, 08:12 PM   #3
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AZscoobie seems to like it. Its the new version, 114mph traps is good.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=1820

IMHO
If I didn't already have the AVO 450hp turbo I would be considering one.

Last edited by Wombat North; 01-15-2004 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 01-16-2004, 10:42 AM   #4
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I would wait. There are going to be allot of turbo options in the next couple of months.

If your dying for a little more power go with the 22.
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Old 01-16-2004, 10:46 AM   #5
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I like it quite a bit ... it is just the smaller exhaust housing on a 2.5L that has me a little concerned.
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:43 AM   #6
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maybe i would have looked in to it ,if i didnt have a sr50!
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by adamrmr
maybe i would have looked in to it ,if i didnt have a sr50!
How do you like that turbo? I assume you have it mated to a 3" or better exhuast (catless?)? Also what are your impressions of boost response compared to stock? What exhaust housing did you get on the sr50?

Sorry for all the questions but I just am a bit skeptical that the sr50 can spool up faster than the stocker, according to APS website dyno plots.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidm_sh
How do you like that turbo? I assume you have it mated to a 3" or better exhuast (catless?)? Also what are your impressions of boost response compared to stock? What exhaust housing did you get on the sr50?

Sorry for all the questions but I just am a bit skeptical that the sr50 can spool up faster than the stocker, according to APS website dyno plots.

Thanks
I would read up on the SR50 and SR series of turbos. A lot of people are having trouble getting anywhere near the advertised power.
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Old 01-16-2004, 01:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidm_sh
How do you like that turbo? I assume you have it mated to a 3" or better exhuast (catless?)? Also what are your impressions of boost response compared to stock? What exhaust housing did you get on the sr50?

Sorry for all the questions but I just am a bit skeptical that the sr50 can spool up faster than the stocker, according to APS website dyno plots.

Thanks
I was skeptical too. read my posts
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Old 01-16-2004, 01:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wombat North
IMHO
If I didn't already have the AVO 450hp turbo I would be considering one.
Are there many variants for the AVO 450? If so, which one do you have? Are you running a FMIC? Which one? Where does it come on? How many rpms on average does the hp/torque curve for it lag behind the stocker in the lower rpm range? If you have it a plot would be nice. I'm considering going in this direction. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 01-16-2004, 01:39 PM   #11
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check out www.mzmperformance.com "info from chris car at www.mzmperformance.com not my Sti "
the APS SR50 smaller turbine housing which produced anexhilarating 374hp/371tq @ 21 lbs of boost - 102 race gas with a conservative tune. No doubt with a little more aggressive tuning the engine will be able to break the 400whp barrier, but this vehicle revolves around street ability & not drag racing keeping in mind that reliability is more important.

davidm_sh
17.5 housing with a HKS DP and greddy evo cat back
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Old 01-16-2004, 04:37 PM   #12
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Well, this big turbo thing has been beaten to death over the past few months, so I would suggest doing a search for starters. But I will make some comments about turbo sizing and relative sizing.

I currently have an XS500 turbo on my car, which is identical to an AVO450 from what I can tell. The compressor comfortably supports 44 lb/min, and up to 50 lb/min when pushed hard. It is mated to a comparitively large exhuast housing and a medium-large exhaust wheel. It uses a full on garrett GT center section, the exact specs of which have been posted before (basicly a gt37 48 trim compressor wheel, with the bigger of the two gt28 exhuast wheels). I saw 16 psi at 3800 rpm in 4th, with just a MBC and TBE, stock airbox, no tuning. I should have the car tuned in the next couple weeks with a unichip, so this boost threshold figure should drop.

On the 1820: Seems to be slightly larger than a vf22, and produces a bit more power. Not worth spending the big money on. Uses the same turbine housing (same wheel too?), with what looks like a vf30 compressor cover and a custom wheel. A bit laggier than a vf22.

On the APS turbos (vs. AVO): The turbos worth talking about here are the SR40 and sr50 vs. AVO450 and AVO500. They all use Garrett Ballistics/GT ball bearing center sections. The major design/philosphy difference is that the APS turbos seem to use very substantially smaller turbine housings. The aps -20 housing is supposedly equivalent to a IHI p20 such as what the vf22 comes with. The AVO housings are massive in comparison. The APS turbos trade off top end power for quick spool up, but there is no correct choice, it depends on what you want to do with the car. Here is the thread with the detailed specs:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=aps

The AVO450 and SR40 use the exact same compressor wheel, but the hot side on the AVO is bigger. The SR50 uses the next step bigger compressor and turbine from the AVO450, but with a smaller turbine housing, as discussed above. The AVO500 is the same center as the APS DR55, but bolt on, and with a bigger exhaust housing.

It seems to me that the AVO turbos tend to make much better power on cars with small head ports and sub-optimal VE. The AU guys testing APS turbos on Ver.6 (small heads) and older motors saw poor results compared to the AVO's. On the other hand, cobb tuning saw excellent results with the SR40 and SR50 in their conebasher - built race motor that I would assume has big ports, tgv delete, etc.

It's tough to say what will be the best for the 2.5 sti. It has big head ports, high lift cams that help flow. It has TGV's that inhibit flow. It has 2.5L, 8.2:1 CR, and AVCS that all help spoolup, but it only has 7000 rpm redline (how far can that be raised, and will it be worth it with the stock cams). All things to think about when trying to come up with a well balanced setup. Personally, I think I will retain the stock headers and do an upgraded TMIC, and WI. That should give good spool on the street and auto-x, but some pretty damn solid power. However, I was recently considering swaping for an AVO500, then getting a FMIC.....maybe 40-50 hp more, at the expense of spoolup.

Kevin

Last edited by Red Rocket; 01-16-2004 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-16-2004, 05:06 PM   #13
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Kevin
Good reply, thanks

Further more
16psi on a AVO 450hp turbo is way more hp than a VF39 at 16psi.
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Old 01-16-2004, 05:20 PM   #14
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Alot of us ran the Deuce Deuce back in the day. I had two of them. I just tuned one last night on a WRX. I forgot how hard they come on. A 22 is not a large turbo by anymeans. This 2.0 car was getting 14 psi by 3300 rpm... Full spooled by 3500. Thats not lag. I ran my VF22's at various states of tune. Most of the time they would trap 104-108mph. I later switched to an 1820. The 1820 is worth about 5 mph at the strip and 40 whp or so peak over the VF22. I would get 14 psi by 3650 rpm on a 2.0. It is 200-400 rpm later hitting then the 22. The compressor is much larger. The hot side is the same. The center uses dual ball bearings. The VF22 uses single ball bearing and thrust/oil bearing for the other side.

The newer 1820 uses the VF30 style compressor cover because PE can no longer source the old RX comp housing. I think the new one is the better turbo for the street guy.. It makes more power at lower boost pressures. It blows hot air past 1.4-1.5 bar though. The old turbo ran solid up to 1.85 bar But, Who is going to do that on a daily basis? If both turbos new and old ran 16 psi the new one would TROMP the old one by at least 30whp.


Cya

C
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Old 01-16-2004, 05:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
Well, this big turbo thing has been beaten to death over the past few months, so I would suggest doing a search for starters. But I will make some comments about turbo sizing and relative sizing.

I currently have an XS500 turbo on my car, which is identical to an AVO450 from what I can tell. The compressor comfortably supports 44 lb/min, and up to 50 lb/min when pushed hard. It is mated to a comparitively large exhuast housing and a medium-large exhaust wheel. It uses a full on garrett GT center section, the exact specs of which have been posted before (basicly a gt37 48 trim compressor wheel, with the bigger of the two gt28 exhuast wheels). I saw 16 psi at 3800 rpm in 4th, with just a MBC and TBE, stock airbox, no tuning. I should have the car tuned in the next couple weeks with a unichip, so this boost threshold figure should drop.

On the 1820: Seems to be slightly larger than a vf22, and produces a bit more power. Not worth spending the big money on. Uses the same turbine housing (same wheel too?), with what looks like a vf30 compressor cover and a custom wheel. A bit laggier than a vf22.

On the APS turbos (vs. AVO): The turbos worth talking about here are the SR40 and sr50 vs. AVO450 and AVO500. They all use Garrett Ballistics/GT ball bearing center sections. The major design/philosphy difference is that the APS turbos seem to use very substantially smaller turbine housings. The aps -20 housing is supposedly equivalent to a IHI p20 such as what the vf22 comes with. The AVO housings are massive in comparison. The APS turbos trade off top end power for quick spool up, but there is no correct choice, it depends on what you want to do with the car. Here is the thread with the detailed specs:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=aps

The AVO450 and SR40 use the exact same compressor wheel, but the hot side on the AVO is bigger. The SR50 uses the next step bigger compressor and turbine from the AVO450, but with a smaller turbine housing, as discussed above. The AVO500 is the same center as the APS DR55, but bolt on, and with a bigger exhaust housing.

It seems to me that the AVO turbos tend to make much better power on cars with small head ports and sub-optimal VE. The AU guys testing APS turbos on Ver.6 (small heads) and older motors saw poor results compared to the AVO's. On the other hand, cobb tuning saw excellent results with the SR40 and SR50 in their conebasher - built race motor that I would assume has big ports, tgv delete, etc.

It's tough to say what will be the best for the 2.5 sti. It has big head ports, high lift cams that help flow. It has TGV's that inhibit flow. It has 2.5L, 8.2:1 CR, and AVCS that all help spoolup, but it only has 7000 rpm redline (how far can that be raised, and will it be worth it with the stock cams). All things to think about when trying to come up with a well balanced setup. Personally, I think I will retain the stock headers and do an upgraded TMIC, and WI. That should give good spool on the street and auto-x, but some pretty damn solid power. However, I was recently considering swaping for an AVO500, then getting a FMIC.....maybe 40-50 hp more, at the expense of spoolup.

Kevin


He forgot the "p.s. my car does not even run"

~v6 (According to kevin going to blow up 2 years ago... still waiting)
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:02 PM   #16
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thanks for the info, clark. just wondering if you would happen to know about how much boost to run on an 1820 with the stock STi fuel system.

this will only be for the time being, of course. i plan on getting the perrin 720cc injectors with the big maf, and then upping the boost from there. but if i get the turbo on before i upgrade those, how much boost should be safe? thanks!
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
It makes more power at lower boost pressures. It blows hot air past 1.4-1.5 bar though. The old turbo ran solid up to 1.85 bar But, Who is going to do that on a daily basis?
DOHhh... I don't want to hear that . So going off of what your saying running 1.4bar = 20.3psi = 2.4PR at sea level. Up here to run 17psi I would be running it at a 2.5PR . Oh well not the turbo for me I guess...
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Old 01-16-2004, 08:54 PM   #18
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It may not be Dave. That comp housing is small and I am sure it will work great. It likes running higher boost over the rest of the VF's but I have noticed some hot air and hot FMIc's on the dyno above 1.4 bar of boost. Running 1.3 lets say, will produce more power then the old one. A neat combo for you would be the old 1820 with the 19 psi gate spring (14 psi hooked direct) with a boost controller allowing 1.7 bar I ran mine up to 1.85 bar all the time with a little STI top mount. Sure, It produced some heat but on the dyno it kept making power. I think alot of tuners and people never ran the old ones high enough. PE told me to run them around 1.6 to 1.7 bar for peak power. You cant do that with the 8 psi spring. Once I put the big spring on I was able to produce more boost and as a result made more power.

Cya

Clark
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Old 01-17-2004, 05:54 AM   #19
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if I can't fit my head into the intake compressor housing.... it aint big enough
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Old 01-17-2004, 01:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
It may not be Dave. That comp housing is small and I am sure it will work great. It likes running higher boost over the rest of the VF's but I have noticed some hot air and hot FMIc's on the dyno above 1.4 bar of boost. Running 1.3 lets say, will produce more power then the old one. A neat combo for you would be the old 1820 with the 19 psi gate spring (14 psi hooked direct) with a boost controller allowing 1.7 bar I ran mine up to 1.85 bar all the time with a little STI top mount. Sure, It produced some heat but on the dyno it kept making power. I think alot of tuners and people never ran the old ones high enough. PE told me to run them around 1.6 to 1.7 bar for peak power. You cant do that with the 8 psi spring. Once I put the big spring on I was able to produce more boost and as a result made more power.

Cya

Clark
AZ You ran this turbo @25lbs or am I calculating wrong?????

Is this safe???

I have a turbo back, air intake, xede.

what injectors and software did you run with this setup??
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Old 01-17-2004, 09:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by carguy19
AZ You ran this turbo @25lbs or am I calculating wrong?????

Is this safe???

I have a turbo back, air intake, xede.

what injectors and software did you run with this setup??
Actually I think he said he ran it up to 1.85bar = 14.7 x 1.85 = 27.1psi. I wouldn't worry about Clark he knows what he is doing . He had/has the supporting mods to run that kind of boost.
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Old 01-17-2004, 09:58 PM   #22
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1820?? FAR too much $$$ for the gain. Its not all that much larger than the stocker, and the AVO450/500 will stomp it IMO. I know the 500 is w/o a doubt going to smash the 1820 in power output. Of course its a bit laggy with the large A/R on the turbine.

However you REALLY want a large hot side on any turbo you put on these things. They LOVE lowering the backpressure at the heads, and one way is to run a large turbine section. I think this might be why APS isn't getting the numbers that others seem to be, because if what you say is true they simply are not using what the motor really wants.
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Old 01-19-2004, 12:43 PM   #23
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for an sti why wouldnt you try the PE1825....i love my 1820 on my little 2.L its awesome. alot of high end power.
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Old 01-19-2004, 01:01 PM   #24
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1825=twin scroll
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Old 01-19-2004, 01:42 PM   #25
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The AVO450 and 500 will make more power. They are larger turbos. However you will give up ALOT of midrange power over the new 1820. The 1820 is a 38lb compressor. The 450 a 44lb for example. That big turbine section is nice to make alot of top end power but the bottom suffers. THis is why I am going to sell Mine and buy something smaller and then simply spray more nitrous when I want to drag race.

Clark
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