TWR Racing 6pot/2pot BBK Install

[Moondongle]

Well, after about a month of delay, I finally had a chance to install the TWR Racing 6pot/2pot BBK that was sitting in my storage unit. First off, let me say that Jerry at TWR Racing was incredibly helpful and the kit is first rate. Others have said the same, but I thought I'd reiterate that.

I can verify that the 6 pots with 332mm rotors clear 17" x 7.5" SSR Competitions without any problems. See pics.

The install went smoothly on all four corners, even working out of my storage unit and using the Suby car jack. Since I wasn't going have anyone to help bleed the brakes, I installed Speed Bleeders, two on each caliper. The size for the speed bleeders are the 10mm thread size. Incidentally, the Speed Bleeders retain the 3/8" wrench flats for the nut portion. Buy a 10mm and 8mm Allen key socket so you can torque the calipers to the adapters with a torque wrench.

My only issue with the TWR kit was that the hub to caliper adapters were not as refined as other kits that I've seen, but this is a very minor issue. I have access to a mill, so when I have time, I'll take a little material off and make them "purrty" and lose a little weight.

I elected to keep the dust shields both in the front and rear, so slight mods to the shields were necessary. The front needed a small notch filed into it to clear the adapter, but if one rounded out the adapter, no mod to the front dust shield would be necessary. The rear dust shield took some persuading - read deadblow hammer - to bend it back to clear the rotor. I wanted to keep the dust shield in the back to keep the e-brake mechanisms clean. The rear shields can be easily bent back.

After the install, I preceeded to bed the pads. I used the track pads that came with the setup. I'm hoping to get some Bobcats, but I'll have to get some backing plates from TWR for the 6pots first. Anyways, I heard some slight clicking after the first two 80 - 5mph hard stops, but after that, the noise went away. It must have been the rotors setting against the studs. I did some hard stops from 100mph to 5mph and held the steering wheel loosely. There was no pulling to either side and the there was no strange rear braking bias problem either. I tried some stops over rough road and some dirt on the pavement and the ABS worked fine. I then went for a spirited canyon run afterwards and all I can say is WOW! These brakes are AWESOME! No fade, just solid pedal. I purposely rode the brakes down a long hill to induce fade, but the brakes just kept working great.

I hope to track this setup soon and will give my impressions. Let me know if you have any questions.

I'll add pics as soon as the attachments are allowed again.

[sdecker]

Thanks for sharing the experience, from an existing TWR owner.

A couple of questions for you:

1) I'm familiar with the 10mm allen socket for the front brackets, but is the 8mm for the rear kit?

2) I run Bobcats in my 4 pot fronts, but don't use a backing plate. I'm on my third set of pads since I track a lot, but I haven't used any backing plates at all. Are these available? Why do you feel that they are needed? Just wondering -- not trying to be a nay-sayer.

Thanks and you'll love the brakes. They work even better under extreme heat conditions such as at the track.

Scott

[Moondongle]

Yes, the 8mm socket is for the 2 pot calipers. It's the caliper to adapter mounting bolts. The rear kit also comes with new adapter to hub bolts and you'll want to use those instead of the stock ones.

I'm sorry if I'm confusing you about the backing plates. I'm not talking about plates between the pistons and the pads, but rather I'm talking about the actual plates that the pads are adhered to. TWR's 6 pot pad are not something that Carbotech currently makes, but Jerry says they're talking with Carbotech about that.

I e-mailed Carbotech about availability of AP Racing 6 pot pads and he said that that wasn't something they stocked either. However, he did say that if I send them some backing plates, they can make the brake pads from that. He said that the old ones are fine as they can prep them for their brake material. I asked Jerry if he can supply me with some "blank" backing plates and he said he would, so that's what I'm waiting on.

I can't wait to get my car to the track and really put the brakes to the test. If the canyon run was any indication of how they might work on the track. It's going to be really hard wiping the silly grin off my face at the end of each session.


Monie

[sdecker]

Oh, my bad -- I did misunderstand you.

So the 6 pot TWR caliper is based on an AP design, kind of like how their 4 pot caliper is based on the Brembo F40 design. You need alternate pad manufacturers for AP 6 pot pads. I got ya now.

Enjoy the brakes and thanks for the clarification.

Scott

[Moondongle]

Additionally, TWR's 2 pot is based on the Mercedes 190/300SL/500SL/CLK/E/SL series of cars and Carbotech didn't stock those either. No big deal though as I'm getting backing plates for both sets of calipers.

The stock track pads worked fine once warmed up, but they do dust quite a bit, even on the low miles I've put on the brakes thus far. As I've read that you like the Bobcats on the street, I thought I'd give them a try and save the stock pads for the track.

I'm sure I'll be doing the naner dance with these brakes.



Monie

[sdecker]

Originally posted by Moondongle
Additionally, TWR's 2 pot is based on the Mercedes 190/300SL/500SL/CLK/E/SL series of cars and Carbotech didn't stock those either. No big deal though as I'm getting backing plates for both sets of calipers.

The stock track pads worked fine once warmed up, but they do dust quite a bit, even on the low miles I've put on the brakes thus far. As I've read that you like the Bobcats on the street, I thought I'd give them a try and save the stock pads for the track.

I'm sure I'll be doing the naner dance with these brakes.



Monie

The OEM pads are track pads in terms of fade resistance and coefficient of friction, yes. However, I found them to be *way* too soft for track use. I destroyed a complete set down to the backing plates in about 1 hour & 15 minutes of track time. This is not a slam on the pads, since they were damn good for 'OEM' pads -- just a little FYI for you if you are seriously going to track the car. Go with Bobcats or preferably Panther XP's for now. I have asked TWR to reformulate their pads but I'm not sure where that stands right now.

Enjoy!

Scott

[Flat420]

Good to hear another positive TWR experience!

I've spoken with Jack a number of times and have a set of 332x28 4 pot fronts coming - just need my annual bonus check so I can send the money up north!

I'm going the same route as Scott - I've got Bobcat street pads and Panther XP track pads on order.

Can't wait for them to get here! I'll get to have a big installfest with brakes, A arms, ALK, master cylinder brace and possibly FLT-A2's. That'll make for a fun day o' work!

[sdecker]

Originally posted by Flat420
I'll get to have a big installfest with brakes, A arms, ALK, master cylinder brace and possibly FLT-A2's. That'll make for a fun day o' work!

niiiiiice...lucky dog

[Moondongle]

Originally posted by sdecker
The OEM pads are track pads in terms of fade resistance and coefficient of friction, yes. However, I found them to be *way* too soft for track use. I destroyed a complete set down to the backing plates in about 1 hour & 15 minutes of track time. This is not a slam on the pads, since they were damn good for 'OEM' pads -- just a little FYI for you if you are seriously going to track the car. Go with Bobcats or preferably Panther XP's for now. I have asked TWR to reformulate their pads but I'm not sure where that stands right now.

Enjoy!

Scott

Have you noticed any increased rotor wear with the Bobcats or Panther XP's relative to the stock pads? I know they're ceramic based, but didn't know if they accelerate rotor wear significantly. I'd chose dusting and pad wear over accelerated rotor wear. Despite that, I'll be going the way you're suggesting with the Bobcats and Panther XP's when I start going to the track on a regular basis. I'll use the stock pads and get the backing plates re-lined with Panther XP material when I get the Bobcats. Larry at Carbotech says they can re-line using any amount of pad left on the backing plates, granting the backing plates are OK.

[Jerry Hong]

Monie,
We have some backing plates coming. I'll let you know when we get them.
The rotors are made form a hard material, so our customers don't have to constantly buy new rotors. The carbotech pads are TWR Racing rotor friendly

Jerry
www.twrracing.com

[MattN]

I haven't used any backing plates at all. Are these available?

Are you refering to the shims that come on the back of the stock pads? These are for noise suppession only and serve no other purpose.

[sdecker]

Originally posted by CarbotechMatt
Are you refering to the shims that come on the back of the stock pads? These are for noise suppession only and serve no other purpose.

I thought that Moondongle was saying that his new (6 pot) brake pads needed the noise supression shims. That struck me as weird since none of my 4 pot pads need or use them. Basically I was a moron.

[sdecker]

Originally posted by Moondongle
Have you noticed any increased rotor wear with the Bobcats or Panther XP's relative to the stock pads? I know they're ceramic based, but didn't know if they accelerate rotor wear significantly. I'd chose dusting and pad wear over accelerated rotor wear. Despite that, I'll be going the way you're suggesting with the Bobcats and Panther XP's when I start going to the track on a regular basis. I'll use the stock pads and get the backing plates re-lined with Panther XP material when I get the Bobcats. Larry at Carbotech says they can re-line using any amount of pad left on the backing plates, granting the backing plates are OK.

I assure you that the combination of Bobcats (street) and Panther XP (track) work great on these rotors. I very closely inspect my rotors both before and after a track event, and I check them casually probably 2-3 times a week on the street.

I did not notice ANY wear on the rotors when using Panther XP's at the track, or the OEM TWR pads either. I have probably 3K miles on the Bobcats and haven't noticed anything either.

The rotors are definitely hard, but Carbotech's pad compounds are friendly to the TWR rotors as well. Just for fun when I'm about to trash a set of rotors anyway, I'm going to put a set of Hawk Blues in there to see just how tough the TWR rotors really are. If there's a pad that can eat a rotor, that'd be the one.

Scott

[oldmansan]

as I have an extra set of 310s that are probably coming your way sdecker. All I need is shipping reimbursed and you can talk to TWR as to how much they'll cost you.

San

[Moondongle]

Scott: Glad to hear the Carbotech's are TWR rotor friendly. I didn't want to have to invest in a new set of rotors after a season of tracking the car. I'm curious to see how long the rotors last with the Hawk Blues. Keep us updated.

Jerry: Let me know when the plates are available. I'm thinking of getting back Stateside by the end of the month and would like to ship them off to Carbotech for some Bobcats and Panther XP's. 2 Sets of each, please. Thanks. Any news on the Brake Master Cylinder?

[sdecker]

Originally posted by oldmansan
as I have an extra set of 310s that are probably coming your way sdecker. All I need is shipping reimbursed and you can talk to TWR as to how much they'll cost you.

San

San -- are these new or used? I'm confused.

[oldmansan]

they're my 310s from my kit. Used, but not very. PM me and I'll give you the details. I have 318s now, could have fit 320s under my SSRs.

San

[Flat420]

If the 332's clear your SSR's, I don't think I'll have any problem with my 17" Attacks...

Anyone know this for sure though?

[sdecker]

Originally posted by oldmansan
they're my 310s from my kit. Used, but not very. PM me and I'll give you the details. I have 318s now, could have fit 320s under my SSRs.

San

San -- what size are your SSR's, 17 or 18" and what offset and width? I'm asking because I'm about to go with a 17" set. If I can fit 332's I'll be a very happy camper...

Any detail you can provide on fitment with the 4 pots on SSR's would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott

[oldmansan]

16 X 7.5 SSR Competitions. I was talking to Jack today, and I think I could probably squeeze 325s under my wheels. I know for a fact 320s/322s will fit easily. With my 318 brackets there is at least 2, more like 3 mm clearance between the top of the rotor and the piece to help with pad chatter. If you increase the rotor diameter by 2mm, you only take 1mm of clearance away. I'll measure the clearance between my wheels, but I'm really confident that the 325s will fit under my wheels. I can't comment on 17" wheels, but 332s are a no-brainer. I'm thinking I'll be a TWR consultant very soon. Jack, Jerry?

San

[sdecker]

Originally posted by oldmansan
I'm thinking I'll be a TWR consultant very soon. Jack, Jerry?

San

ahahahahah....thanks for the info. I feel the same way.

Scott

[Moondongle]

Scott: No problems with 332mm rotors with 17" competitions. My 6 pots are using the 332's and there's lots of clearance. If you send me your e-mail address, I'll send you some pics of the brakes under the 17" Competitions.

[oldmansan]

I don't think anyone is running 318s on 16 inch wheels. I think 325s are doable on 16s, so 332s on 17s is easy. moodongle, how much space between the top of the rotor and the top shiny plate between the pads? And how much clearance between the calipers and the wheels? I think TWR should supply me with every size of SSR wheel and rotor they make. Then I can say what fits and doesn't. Jack and Jerry, send them to me pronto.

San

[Moondongle]

San: I don't have access to my car right now as I'm overseas, but IIRC there was at least 2 - 3 mm of clearance from the top of the rotor to the rattle clip. At the closest point of contact between the rim and the caliper, where the wheel spoke curves into the rim was about 12mm (1/2"). There was about 15mm - 17mm laterally between the spoke and the piston housings.

I have pics of the install both from the side and angled from the top to show clearances if you're interested. Send me your e-mail address. When we're allowed to attach files again, I'll update this post with the pics as well.

[oldmansan]

I'll be running 16s forever, but for comparison, clearances will be nice.

San