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Old 01-22-2004, 09:35 PM   #1
WanganRunner
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Default Reverse Synchro

Long Story Short: Just got my 2k4 rex, 980 miles on it, had it for 10 days, makes a knocking sound in reverse. I took it to the dealer and they told me the reverse synchro was broken. They ARE fixing it under warranty, but said that it's just a "One time act of goodwill". They said that in order to do this sort of damage, one would have to accidentally shift into reverse while going forward 25mph or faster.

The problem:

I KNOW I didn't misshift into reverse, I've never done it before, but I'm sure I'd know it if I did. I've been babying the hell out of the car given that it was still in the break-in period. Thus, what the hell else could cause the reverse synchro to break with only 980 miles on the car? Any theories appreciated.

My only ideas:

Maybe that sort of misshift isn't really noticable (bloody unlikely)

Factory defect (anyone else had this problem)

Case Flex screwed synchro up (Is this possible, and if so, what the hell causes case flex?)

Tranny Gremlins.

ANY input is greatly appreciated, I just got the car, I love it, but this is reeeeedikalus. (and yes, I know I posted the same thing over on I-club, I really wanna know what people think of this).
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:09 PM   #2
yobtah
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Default

Reverse is a straight-cut non-synchronized gear. There is no reverse synchro.

Does it make the knocking sound only while you're moving in reverse or while you're stopped with the clutch pedal pressed and gear selector in reverse?

I don't think case flex would cause synchro problems, but I suppose case flex could cause the actual gears to mesh incorrectly. That could chip or break gear teeth. If the knocking happens while you're moving and matches speed in reverse, chipped gear teeth might be a possibility.
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Old 01-23-2004, 07:29 AM   #3
WanganRunner
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Default

Didn't get a chance to check the "only when moving" thing. I got told this about the reverse synchro over on i-club too, which worries me, because the dealer definitely said it was the reverse synchro, which probably means they're lying. I need to find another dealer.
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Old 01-23-2004, 01:08 PM   #4
Hamzor
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Default Actually....

Reverse does have a syncro.

http://www.usdmsti.com/photos/SalesTraining/sti7.jpg

(bottom of page)
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Old 01-23-2004, 01:40 PM   #5
Stanley
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Default Re: Actually....

Quote:
Originally posted by Hamzor
Reverse does have a syncro.

http://www.usdmsti.com/photos/SalesTraining/sti7.jpg

(bottom of page)
That has got to be a typo. I've never heard of a syncro in a reverse gear on any transmission. Plus I thought the 5 speed had single syncros on first and second, not double cones as the graphic you linked to says.
It is, of course, entirely possible that the information I have read on this site is merely hear say...
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Old 01-23-2004, 11:50 PM   #6
GLwagon
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Default

#(28), page "MT-9", in service manual #MSA5T0213A lists a "Synchro cone (Rev)"

It sits near the back end of the "Main shaft Assembly" the function apears to do with the intermesh of 5th gear to a "Coupling Sleve" that inturn ends up going to the actual reverse idler gear...

If that was worn... I don't know what the cause or effect would be...
I doesn't apear to be of the type that we are used to... it isn't directly "reverse" but one of a couple of things that need to mesh to make it happen...
Reverse has a synchro in it but the gear its self is NOT synchronized...

Last edited by GLwagon; 01-23-2004 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 01-24-2004, 01:12 AM   #7
jandro62
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I also have a MY04. When just rolling back at say 1mph I tried to shift the car into Reverse and got one hell of a noise from the tranny. I'm gonna vote for reverse is not synchronised.
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Old 01-24-2004, 01:16 AM   #8
firedust
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Quote:
Originally posted by GLwagon
#(28), page "MT-9", in service manual #MSA5T0213A lists a "Synchro cone (Rev)"

It sits near the back end of the "Main shaft Assembly" the function apears to do with the intermesh of 5th gear to a "Coupling Sleve" that inturn ends up going to the actual reverse idler gear...

If that was worn... I don't know what the cause or effect would be...
I doesn't apear to be of the type that we are used to... it isn't directly "reverse" but one of a couple of things that need to mesh to make it happen...
Reverse has a synchro in it but the gear its self is NOT synchronized...

You have a WRX. The manual may say its synchroed ,but what the hell does the synchro do?
youve surely, just like me been parallel parking or doing a 3 pt turn and put it in reverse before the car was stopped and gotten a grind. i did it once, and once again by accident. never again...doesnt feel like it has any synchronizer.
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Old 01-24-2004, 10:22 AM   #9
LyveWRX
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Default

Re-read the post by: gl-wagon.....
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Old 01-26-2004, 10:34 AM   #10
Dougie01
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There's definitely a synchro on the 04 STi reverse. It's not all that strong so you can over-ride it if you try, but it's there. And there are other transmissions with this also. The Miata has it, for example.
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Old 01-26-2004, 12:26 PM   #11
Gunner
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Make sure that you do not sign anything that states that you accept the repair as a "one time courtesy". They are bloody ignorant by assuming that the reverse cannot be defective to start with. Maybe they are instructed by Subaru, who knows. But just make sure you do not end up at the short end of the stick.
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Old 01-27-2004, 12:05 AM   #12
WanganRunner
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Can I just refuse to sign it? They've already told me that's what they're calling it, a "one time act of goodwill". If I don't sign it, won't they refuse to pay for it under the warranty? I'm picking the car up either tommorow or wednesday, so quick response from ANYONE knowledgable on these "one time" things would be great.
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Old 01-27-2004, 12:13 AM   #13
BAC5.2
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How do they know that isn't a manufacturer defect?
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Old 01-27-2004, 12:25 AM   #14
Gunner
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I have no experience in this, maybe someone can give a better response, but here's mine.

Firstly, I don't think they will need you to sign on paper and accept that it is a "one time courtesy" and that Subaru will not be responsible for future repairs. If they tell you orally that it is a one time courtesy, tell them that you do not accept it and that in the first place you did not "shift into reverse at 25mph or more". Moreover, according to law, the manufacturer is responsible for defects as long as they have "proof" that user operation and modification resulted in the break-down. Ask them for proof that it is not workmanship issue. Moreover, what happnes if they failed to fix it correctly, if it is just "one-time" and they couldn't fix it with just one try (which often happens), then you are out in the cold.

If in case they really ask you to sign something on paper to accept it, I personally wouldn't sign it. I would leave the car there and find an attorney and write them a letter about the issue stating my rights.

I really don't know what to expect from the dealership, maybe some Subaru tech here can give some insights.

Quote:
Originally posted by WanganRunner
Can I just refuse to sign it? They've already told me that's what they're calling it, a "one time act of goodwill". If I don't sign it, won't they refuse to pay for it under the warranty? I'm picking the car up either tommorow or wednesday, so quick response from ANYONE knowledgable on these "one time" things would be great.
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Old 01-27-2004, 07:14 AM   #15
WanganRunner
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Has anyone here ever had to actually sign something?
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