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Old 02-24-2004, 12:08 PM   #1
Dakken
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Default Built motor? Check in here

Hey guys
I've been reading alot of the motor build threads and I'm about a month away from begining my own quest for 400+whp

If you've built a motor (or have a motor that wasn't stock with the car)in an older suby, WRX, sti, whatever.. please take a minute and check in here.

What shortblock? ____________
What heads? ___________
What turbo? ___________
What engine managment? _____________
Fuel modifications? _____________
Cooling Modifications (IC, Radiator, Oil cooler, etc) _________
How many miles? __________
WHP?__________(And what dyno you made this power on, please)
Problems, if any (Or if many) _____________

This might help to clear up some myths, focus on problems, and steer future engine builders in the right direction.

Thanks guys
Scott
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:19 PM   #2
subjd40
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Stage 4 Axis Power Racing Stroker Motor
- 2.35 Liter Displacement
- Polished & Balanced 2.5 STi Crank
- Pauter 4340 Chrome-Moly Forged Rods
- CP Forged Pistons (9:1 Compression)
- Cometic Head Gaskets
- ARP Head Studs (Over Sized)
Axis Power Racing Cylinder Heads
- Axis Racing Ported STi Spec C Cylinder Heads
- Axis Racing Dual Spring Valvetrain Kit
- JUN 272 Cams

Performance Mods
- Axis Racing Custom 70mm Throttle Body & Adapter Plate
- T60-1 Hybrid T3/T4 Turbonetics Turbocharger
- Custom Axis Racing FMIC & Piping
- Tial External Wastegate
- Custom Up-Pipe
- Spec-C TGVs
- Axis Power Racing Fuel Rails & Braided Line
- Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator
- Aeromotive A1000 Fuel Pump
- Custom Downpipe w/ Vishnu Exhaust
- Electromotive Tec3 ECU

Other Modifications Include
- Built 5 Speed Transmission
- EXEDY Hyper-Twin Plate Clutch
- Brembo Gran-Turismo Big Brake Kit
- Cusco Rear Sway Bar
- Powder coated Intake Manifold
- Painted Valve and Timing Covers (OEM Subaru Paint)
- STi Projector Headlamps
- HKS SSQ Blow-Off Valve
- Battery Relocated to the Trunk
- GReddy Profec B Electronic Boost Controller
- Blitz Turbo Timer

also just installed a new radiator... off some touring car... don't know the brand... and the dyno graphs are on axis's website "project blue"

hope this helps
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:06 PM   #3
Dakken
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Good good.
keep em comin
Scott
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Old 02-24-2004, 07:35 PM   #4
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I dont have one, but thies are the ones with the best reps...

www.axispowerracing.net( great guys, great blocks)

www.i-speedusa.com ( thier builder has been building BIG BIG hp ej dune bugies for a while. )

www.cobbtuning.com ( been around forever )

Link to an I-speed block in action...
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=507272

There are a few threads on cobb block and axis blocks...

Last edited by totoherbs; 02-25-2004 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 02-25-2004, 05:44 AM   #5
skywalker
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
Link to an axis block in action...
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=507272
Just to clear things up here, that is an I-Speed USA block in action.

[edit]Sorry man, can't have people posting vendor-related items with personal accounts... they make me enforce the rules - North Ursalia[/edit]

Last edited by North Ursalia; 02-25-2004 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:47 AM   #6
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Old 02-25-2004, 05:44 PM   #7
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built motor = 10,000$ plus...(just the motor). Seems to be the consensus (not talking about hybrid 2.5 STIs or your WRX heads on an STI or JDM STI block)
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Old 02-25-2004, 05:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by tolnep
built motor = 10,000$ plus...(just the motor). Seems to be the consensus (not talking about hybrid 2.5 STIs or your WRX heads on an STI or JDM STI block)
Not realy... If you install it yourself you can cut the cost way down.

1k for basic head work
3k for the block
1k for needed install parts
500 to have someone slap the heads to the block

Now to get it running, tuned, and a turbo that will be of any use on it... you are right $10k easy, most likely more.
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
Not realy... If you install it yourself you can cut the cost way down.

1k for basic head work
3k for the block
1k for needed install parts
500 to have someone slap the heads to the block

Now to get it running, tuned, and a turbo that will be of any use on it... you are right $10k easy, most likely more.
Built. Like the Cobb stage III. Not installed. Everything done to the motor that is reasonable for a top drawer street motor. Start with best block (your choice). Add rods, pistons, sleeving, all machine shop work done, balanced, checked alignment of bores and crank. Add oil squirters if you want, notch sleeves.

Heads. pick best heads then flow them, best valves, retainers machined and assembled and clearances checked. Aftermarket cams, your choice. Aftermarket studs etc etc. At least port match the intake, perhaps tumbler delete etc etc.

At this point you have a motor you can drop into the car (I would do this myself). I would not do the machine work myself (no experience, no tools). I might double check simple things like CC the heads and pistons, check cam profile maybe).

A fully built stage three by one of the recognized builders on this forum (and there are others that aren't (pantera perhaps)) is going to cost you at least 10k.

Of course you could take a cobb stage three block and mix and match with your old heads or vice versa. But I was talking about basically a stage III crate motor with all the goodies.
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Old 02-25-2004, 06:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by tolnep
Of course you could take a cobb stage three block and mix and match with your old heads or vice versa. But I was talking about basically a stage III crate motor with all the goodies.
Agreed, $10k all the goodies... but for just the block and heads you can get away with $5k. $3.5k for a built block(rods,pistons,ej22case,ej25 crank), $1k Valvetrain, $1k port/polish, and 1k for random goods like gasket, bolts, and what ever else comes up.
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:02 PM   #11
Dakken
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Keep up the info guys
I hoped this would spurt some discussion and it is.

Ya'll with the built motors, check in! Commawnnn!


I plan on a 2.2legacy block (built by axis most likely unless i build it reeeeeeeeeally slow by myself over summer/fall)
v7heads, possibly v8 valvetrain, or axis valvetrain.

Basicly I plan on maxing out my stock WRX motor, running it until it blows up, and hopefully while im doing that build a motor on the side that would be about ready to drop in when the stock motor goes.

350whp on the stock motor, who knows on the 2.2
Scott
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:08 PM   #12
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Get a 2.2 with a ver8 crank, or the 2.35 with the 2.5L crank. Nice ways to go...

The jdm vavle train is good for high reving low displacement motors. The ver7 jdm STi cam is lower duration and hight vs the usdm wrx cam. The spec C is lower high, higher duration. The smaller juns are very very nice but they cost.
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dakken

Basicly I plan on maxing out my stock WRX motor, running it until it blows up
That shouldn't be a problem. Is easy to blow up a fully built one too. Somewhere on one of these threads I made the statement:

"The tuner is more important than the engine build".

A built block only gives your tuner more headroom. But you can grenade this motor no mater how overbuilt it is. From what I have read on this and a few other forums, everyone is on new ground, trying to figure out how far you can push it and what can be done to make it tougher. There may be some out there that know the secrets (I hear rumors from time to time) but I think most are still gropping in the dark trying to find the right combination of build and tune for a long lasting config.
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:20 PM   #14
Dakken
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At this point I'm looking at a 7500ish redline.. slightly higher then a stock WRX, but nothing crazy. High RPM means more tuning, and i'm lazy like that.
JUN are sweet but I'm not building a racecar, so I'll go the affordable route and stick with some STi RA stuff.
originally i wanted 400whp and stop there.. Now that i see the stock motor can handle that (Bigturkey, for example..400whp on stock motor...which is awesome) I decided to draw the line at 350,375whp and conserve some longevity while i build up other stuff... 350whp from 200whp is going to be a blast im sure.. then when that motor finally does bite the dust (Bad tank of gas, mis shift..whatever) I'd like to have a 500+hp capable motor ready to be dropped in...and then start at 400whp till thats boring..then crank up boost a little and tune accordingly.. until that motor goes.. in which case I'll repeat the process :P



I'm already going to be knee-deep in penny spending with a v7/v8 transmission and a DECENT set of wheels. I'll keep the v7 takeoff suspension until the struts die (offroading tends to kill those quicker) and then I'll rock with a decent set of coilovers.
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Old 02-26-2004, 03:23 AM   #15
STFUTuning
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Built motor and heads (without Cams) = around $7500.

There are other misc costs that will bring that figure up as well. Plus, when it's out, you just cant seem to help yourself. I know I can't!
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:54 PM   #16
Dakken
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Yea, that's why I think I may just build this thing as I go rather then having it built somewhere else. Working on cars is my hobby, after all!

Scott
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Old 02-26-2004, 04:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dakken
Yea, that's why I think I may just build this thing as I go rather then having it built somewhere else. Working on cars is my hobby, after all!

Scott
In the end its cheeper to use one of the known motor builder and install it, slap the heads on yourself. Once you add up the parts, and the machinist, and get it balanced.... it comes out to a lot more. Realy to make power on the biger blocks past 6k you need cams...
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by STFUTuning
Built motor and heads (without Cams) = around $7500.

There are other misc costs that will bring that figure up as well. Plus, when it's out, you just cant seem to help yourself. I know I can't!
$5,900
http://axispowerracing.net/stage5motor.html
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by pk!
$5,900
http://axispowerracing.net/stage5motor.html
and heads, and shipping.... tax.... putting heads on the block... install, even if you do it yourself its going to cost lots of time.
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:29 PM   #20
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Here is what Im using for my project coming summer 2004.

Quote:
What shortblock? ____________
2.2T legacy block
darton ductile iron sleeves
ross pistons-98.5mm bore with custom pin height
pauter rods- stock 2.0 length
2.5 modified crank-79mm stroke
14mm head studs
total seal rings
cometic head gaskets

Quote:
What heads? ___________
WRX, Ported. Valvetrain upgrade
JUN 264 Cams
Quote:
What turbo? ___________
Undecided
Quote:
What engine managment? _____________
SDS, or UTEC if MAF to MAP is out
Quote:
Fuel modifications? _____________
Custom Rails, lines, pump, etc.
Quote:
Cooling Modifications (IC, Radiator, Oil cooler, etc) _________
Aluminum Radiator... PWR?
Quote:
How many miles? __________
0
Quote:
WHP?__________(And what dyno you made this power on, please)
Estimate: I want 500whp on our dyno dynamics dyno.
Quote:
Problems, if any (Or if many) _____________
Havent started yet. I can only imagine.

-Mike
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:40 PM   #21
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Good luck Mike, make sure to let us know how it goes...


Cobb just droped thier new toys...

Most inpresive is the coated bearings...
http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/engine-int...html#rbearings
They also have thier 2.0,2.2,2.5 blocks....
http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/engine-ass...iginal.html#20
Also new 'tuner blocks'
http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/engine-ass...-tuner.html#20


That said I dont like the idea of just stroking a ej205 to 2.2....
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:53 PM   #22
Dakken
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Good luck, mike! 500whp on your evil dyno isn't the same as the high readers

I decided (Yea, i keep changing my mind..so its probably temporary anyway) i'll just wait until i have a trans in my car to even consider the engine buildup. Maybe by then we'll have some crazy new developments, or Mike will get tired of having 500whp and resort to something like a Festiva and I can buy his motor
/insert more wishfulthinking here
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:43 PM   #23
MJU1983
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dakken
Good luck, mike! 500whp on your evil dyno isn't the same as the high readers

I decided (Yea, i keep changing my mind..so its probably temporary anyway) i'll just wait until i have a trans in my car to even consider the engine buildup. Maybe by then we'll have some crazy new developments, or Mike will get tired of having 500whp and resort to something like a Festiva and I can buy his motor
/insert more wishfulthinking here
I am slowly acquiring the necessary parts. I have the block, already sleeved. The crank, bearings, pistons & rings, studs and gaskets... need some rods.

I am working on scoring some heads at a good deal, then off to get ported.

It will be a slow process. Maybe Ill sell the entire car on ebay when Iím done.

RHD track WRX, just 2 seats and a roll cage... and a couple HP to play with.

-Mike
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:04 PM   #24
Dakken
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Someone will be a happy camper if you sell em the setup youre building, i would imagine.

The more I think about it, the smaller I consider starting and building up from there.
VF22 and fuel mods with some decent tuning will have to suffice till I have the money for a tranny, methinks. :-\
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