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Old 01-08-2004, 05:35 AM   #1
JDMSubaru
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Default Anti-seize experts

Is it okay to use anti-seize on every given bolt on the car if you so please to spend the time to do it?

Perhaps, are there any spots where this is a bad idea?
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Old 01-08-2004, 05:45 AM   #2
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Yet another useless thread.

How long is this going to be allowed to continue?
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Old 01-08-2004, 05:46 AM   #3
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yet another worthless response.

where are they going to end?
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Old 01-08-2004, 06:41 AM   #4
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am i missing something here or are you just thread crapping for sport?
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Old 01-08-2004, 03:16 PM   #5
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Yes you can put never sieze on every bolt.

I would skip the oil drain plug, but that is about it.
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Old 01-08-2004, 08:13 PM   #6
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I personally would think twice about using never seze on bolts I was going to tighten with a tork wrench. It throws off the reading. I also remember a problem on a couple of Toyota's special exhaust nuts that vibrated off on their own. When I mentioned to the Parts Guy he said "you should not have smeared them" with anti seze.

Fred
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Old 01-09-2004, 01:35 AM   #7
JDMSubaru
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie-III
Yes you can put never sieze on every bolt.

I would skip the oil drain plug, but that is about it.
Thanks for the help Charlie!

I used Permatex's anti-seize on every exhaust component on the car.

Well, now I'm concerned after reading Fred's follow-up, what do you say?


-Jeff, my counter to you is, don't you think this stuff is better to have than to possibly break a bolt/stud or seize a nut? After all, these areas get scorching hot and sometimes weld surrounding parts together from the heat.

I personally can tell you that when I did my up pipe I bumped into a seized nut and bolt connecting the pipe between the 2 headers. It was one of the two bolts connecting the driver's side header to the center pipe. My friend picked me up with the complete header set (3 pipes) seized as 1 piece to Home Depot were a nice worker helped me free it up. We had already tried several ounces of liquid wrench, a box wrench, and a breaker bar/socket combo to no avail. It was determined not to come undone by conventional methods. What the worker did was squeeze a band saw between the slight distance in the flange i made with having partially unscrewing the nut (before it was seized that is).

Anyway, with some religious sawing, we gradually chopped the bolt in half and freed it.

This is exactly what scares me into a devout advocacy for the use of anti-seize on every exhaust part.
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Old 01-09-2004, 03:16 AM   #8
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Not good for lug nuts! Also probably not good where you are using a threadlocker or other sealant. Definitely good when mixing metals, especially steel w/aluminum, like on spark plugs.

As for your seized bolt/nut, not all penetrating oils are equal, and you often must apply them a few times over 24 hours for optimum results. Next time, I'd use PB Blaster (or best of all Kroil), applying 2 or 3 times during the day, apply again the next day, and then take a breaker bar to it. It also helps sometimes to first try in the *tightening* direction a bit. Another common tactic (which sounds especially good for exhaust system stuff) is to heat up the nut (not the bolt) with a torch to expand it, then try again to loosen it.
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Old 01-09-2004, 09:03 AM   #9
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Why bother with anti-seize when you live in California.... your car never rusts....

When I went to Vancouver... I couldn't believe how cars just held up as my 99 RS has more rust on the underbody than my friends 88 honda accord.....

BTW, I use anti-seize..... great stuff.

Robin
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Old 01-10-2004, 04:04 PM   #10
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Uncle Scotty--

If it is such a useless thread, why do you take the time to respond?

I'll bet its 'cause you need a hug.

Whit
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Old 01-10-2004, 05:17 PM   #11
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Carefull with anti sieze on spark plugs!
It changes the heat range by a couple of points.
I prefer Champion plug lube, it is a moly liquid.
In lieu of that I use a very small dab of regular anti sieze.

BTW, stuck hardware=Aero Kroil and the trusty flame wrench!
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Old 01-11-2004, 12:04 AM   #12
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I use anti sieze on my spark plugs, exhausts pieces and various other under the car parts. Never had a problem. I also use it on my lugnuts but i torque mine to 100 lbs. ft. instead of the lower specified torque in the service manual. I then drive and re-torque them. works great. just use common sense. And if you have a stuck bolt, Kroil is awesome stuff. let it seep in, reapply several times and also tap it with something to set up a vibration. and when all else fails, heat normally works.
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Old 01-11-2004, 12:25 AM   #13
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yeah, unfortunately i dont have a heat gun anywhere and not comfortable using it around all the flammable chemicals and hoses that linger around the areas i work on the car when i cant remove the said parts from the car itself

fortunately a band saw took the bolt right off with a little elbow grease
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Old 01-14-2004, 12:15 PM   #14
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Hawk296- Using Anti-sieze on your lug nuts actually makes it so that the applied torque is higher than with a dry bolt, because you are lubricating the threads. So if you were to torque a lug with anti-seize on it to 75 ft-lbs, the actual applied torque would be higher. Just a thought.
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Old 01-14-2004, 01:43 PM   #15
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I torque and re-torque to 100 ft lbs regardless, havnt had a problem yet, no wheels coming off (drive it hard too) and no broken studs. if i ever do have any issues ill let ya know.
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:42 PM   #16
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100ft-lbs AND anti-seize is a recipe for disaster, Hawk...

You are overtorquing your studs by at least 100%.
You may end up being lucky and not have a problem, but others may not.
It is not a recommended practice to do what you do, and IMHO you are a fool for what you are doing...check around the stud holes in your wheels for cracks, cuz you may find some someday.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:15 PM   #17
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Uncle Scotty and kiditari are right. With anti-seize you're lubing the threads so when you apply the same torque you're actually putting in a higher tensile load in the stud. I'm not sure it's a huge deal because anti-seize may not be that lubricious (?) and there is friction between the nut and mating surface, but I think it's a good idea to go on the low end of the torque range when using anti-seize.
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Old 01-15-2004, 07:47 PM   #18
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i used anti seize on my header studs, up pipe bolts, and up pipe studs...those areas get so hot you want it to be an easy task to get everything off.

i got a seized bolt on the header to joint pipe connection and had to use a hack saw to free it. i dont want to go through that again so i used anti seize...
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:40 AM   #19
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I do inspect my hubs at least evey 6 months, in fact i just had them out when I changed front wheel bearings two weeks ago. during this time, hubs were cleaned and inspected. GUess what no cracks. Around the stud holes in the wheels (both sets) are fine as well. And its not like I use globs of anti sieze ALL the time. I put a very small amount on about every 4 wheel removal/installation cycles. just enough to keep them from corroding to bad. I do torque to 100 ft.lbs. when the book specifies 75. even with anti-sieze I do not agree with your 100% overtorque deal. either way it has worked for me.

Ill do you a favor, Ill take some cool pics (if im dead ill have someone else post them) when my hubs and studs break to pieces at freeway speeds after my wheels split and fall off. that way you all know how long these parts will last with my combination and will know the consequences and what not to do. It will be a good experiment.
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Old 01-16-2004, 01:16 PM   #20
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Hawk296- The combination of the anti-sieze and overtorquing your lugnuts isnt the greatest idea in the world. For starters, subaru uses hubcentric wheels, so the purpose of the lug nut torque is to hold the wheel against the hub, so the hub bears the stresses, as opposed to the wheel studs. 75 ft lbs is plenty for hub-centric wheels. When you're lubricating the threads you are decreasing the resistance between the lug nut and the stud threads, therefore throwing the applied torque way off. If you were torquing the lugs to 100 ft-lbs without the anti-sieze, I wouldn't worry too much.

I'm not trying to be a dick, or force my opinion on you. I work on aircraft every day, and I have seen what happens when things get over-torqued. Microscopic cracks can form, and over time it can lead to breakage. I'm not saying that I'm any kind of expert, but it's something to consider. My $.02

-Josh
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Old 01-16-2004, 04:39 PM   #21
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hey, i never said its not gonna do damage. Just that it hasnt yet. i was completly serious about making it an experiment and taking pics upon failure. days till destruction are counting down...
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:57 PM   #22
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i always anti-seize my lugs. ran them for 2 years now torqued to 105 lb-ft. didnt see any issues there.
found out the stock GDA (FAT PIG)spec is 85 lb-ft, so i do that now.
yes, im sorry, but i have specifications from a FAT PIG on my car now. oh well.

my subaru tech uses anti-sieze all over the place. he seems to be [|Subaru-OK] (window sticker thingy)

h
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:59 PM   #23
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cool can i take pics of yours when your wheels shatter and the hubs fall off and wheel studs fly through teh air like lethal missles killing school children?
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:03 PM   #24
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Default the real skoop.

okay. no more BS poo.

there are 2 differnt things u guys are brining up against anti-sieze. both witch are wrong.

when u install head studs, the instructions (arp, OEM honda, OEM subaru, etc) is to coat the threaded portion of the stud with assembly lube or engine oil. why?

reason is to remove the friction between the metal/metal threaded area, so u can have a PROPER genuine torque specification.

so when you torque your lugnuts you WANT to have the threads lubricated. so they dont get 'torqued" and not touch bottom so u have a space between the 60 deg slat and the wheel and it vibrates back and forth and falls off.

the function of the torque is to hold stuff on. torque to the correct spec and you will keep stuff on.

h

Last edited by supermoose; 01-16-2004 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:40 PM   #25
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Hey! I'm a fat pig driver and I resent your deragatory remarks! Besides, this topic is already being covered in the fat pig forum where I live.
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