Legacy AutoX Suspension Options

whtlegacy · 01-25-2004, 07:40 PM

I'm running a set of KYB GR2's (designed for the Legacy GT) on my Legacy/OB but I'm looking for something much stiffer to match my Eibach springs (340lb/ft front, 250 lb/ft rear) which are certainly too stiff for these struts. I've considered KYB AGX's but I've heard that even at the stiffest setting, they still aren't very firm. I know Patrick Olson is using the Koni inserts, but it sounds like it's quite a hassle to install them.
Are there are any super-stiff struts out there, preferably adjustable that you guys would recommend?
Also, what do you think of my spring rates? These were recommended by the guys at Ground Control, but I'm open to other options.
And finally, I'm currently using Ground Control Sleeve-Overs to adjust my ride height. These necessitate fairly short springs that sit on top of an adjustable perch. Are these hurting or helping my handling? As much as I like the adjustable ride height, maybe conventional lowering springs would be better.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Patrick Olsen · 01-25-2004, 09:11 PM

You can go with Konis without the hassle by getting them from Cobb - they sell them fully assembled and even painted Koni Yellow. Oooooohhhh, Ahhhhhh!

They'll even do Double Adjustables, which (as the name implies) allow independent adjustment of bump and rebound damping. I'm already thinking I might end up getting the ones I've just installed custom re-valved to allow me to do the same thing. I haven't really fiddled with them yet, so it's a bit early in the game to make that decision... Anyway, the big downer on Cobb's Konis is the cost, which is why I chose to install mine myself. Oh, and I just checked their website and I don't see the full struts advertised, just the inserts, so maybe now that Cobb is offering full coil-overs they've decided not to do the fully prepped Konis.

As for your spring rates, I would say your front/rear split it too big, but I guess it depends on how you like the car to handle. Plus I imagine the extra ass-end weight of the wagon probably makes it rotate a bit better than a sedan, I dunno. I'm running 325f/280r, front 20mm sway bar, rear adjustable maxed out at 22mm, and I think the car still understeers more than I would like. I may try some 300# springs - either 300f/280r or 325f/300r to see how that feels.

Last but not least, I think the GCs are a great idea, even if you never use them to change ride heights (I pretty much intend to just set mine and forget 'em). There are a bazillion different spring rate combinations you can use with the standard 2.5" coil-over springs, way more than you could ever hope to try with conventional springs. If you don't like the way the car rides or handles, you can fine tune it (as I plan on doing).

Pat OlsEn
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

whtlegacy · 01-25-2004, 09:57 PM

Thanks for the info. I definately agree that my rear spring rate is too low. Luckily, I think GC exchanges springs for free. I'm definately going to look into some inserts if I can find someone to the whole process of installing the Koni's into the struts.

whtlegacy · 01-25-2004, 10:20 PM

Hey Patrick,
Did you get the single or double adjustable struts? Also, where did you purchase them from?

sybir · 01-25-2004, 11:34 PM

Hmmmmm.

I'm running WRX struts and GC's, with 315 progressives in the front and 250 progressives in the back. Are you running linears?
The progressives are great, they start out soft enough not to kill on the freeway, but they ramp up quickly, and I can only bottom if i'm fully committed in a high speed corner and then hit a large, abrupt dip or bump.

Not as perfectly predictable as linear springs, but they feel pretty good on my car, and I ran support for a trackday last week, loaded down with a set of wheels and tires, jacks, stands, air tanks, tools, chairs, awning, etc, and I *still* wasn't having any handling issues; the only reason I had to slow down was to keep the back of the car from looking like a "Vomit Comet" cabin video, with everything suspended in midair....

That said, I haven't autoXed the thing yet, waiting for the tranny swap. It's underdamped, sure, but the rates seem to be high enough that it doesn't bounce at all. I'm sure when I start pushing it, I'll see room for improvement.

All this is on 215/45/17 SO-3's, which have the stiffest sidewalls I've ever run on.....

NiTRoN · 01-26-2004, 02:26 AM

whitelegacy.. Nice to know scooby from around here

whtlegacy · 01-26-2004, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NiTRoN
whitelegacy.. Nice to know scooby from around here

Hey man- are you on LERSOC.com? It's a local forum. There are a bunch of people from around here.

Patrick Olsen · 01-26-2004, 04:23 AM

I have single adjustables, which I got from shox.com. They pretty much have the best Koni prices you'll find anywhere, and they do free shipping on Konis in the continental US. I didn't even ask for a break on mine and the guy volunteered to knock off some of the shipping cost (2nd day air to Hawaii is expensive, so I never expected to get it free, but they took $50 or something like that off).

Pat

whtlegacy · 01-26-2004, 11:34 AM

wow- only $285 for a set of 4 inserts? I was expecting the Koni's to run $500-$600.

NiTRoN · 01-26-2004, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whtlegacy
Hey man- are you on LERSOC.com? It's a local forum. There are a bunch of people from around here.

well, I am now.. under same nick..

biggreen96 · 01-26-2004, 06:46 PM

IMO the AGX's are very stiff at maximum, so much that its unbearable for street use. I run them allmost full soft when im not autoXing.

whtlegacy · 01-26-2004, 07:16 PM

I like the fact that the AGX's adjust both rebound compression and also that I wouldn't have to deal with chopping open my struts. Any other Legacy owners have any input on maximum stiffness of the AGX's? There are no Legacy specific AGX's right?

nuburu2 · 01-26-2004, 09:50 PM

I think there is a BC/BF application but all the folks I know of running them use the Impreza unit on the BD/BG cars, as do I. I've really felt no need to adjust them for street use in the 14-15 months they've been in the car, a Wagon. Set initially at 2F4R with WhiteLine lowering springs. My impression is one could make themselves relatively "uncomfortable" with the settings maxed out on them (4F8R), or tame a high spring rate spring set. Personally, I think I'd go with the STi top mounts were I doing it today, especially with AutoX in mind.

Glenn O

Charlie-III · 01-27-2004, 11:29 AM

I think Teagues (look in the vendors section) also has the Koni's preassembled and maybe Tire Rack.

I don't remember COBB having the adjustables preassembled. I do believe the preassembled ones they have/had are like the KYB GR2's which are non-adjustable.

COBB has a set of Koni inserts that are "valved different" than the other Koni inserts. I don't know the difference, or if it is worth the extra $200 - $300 over what others sell.

Quite a few use the KYB AGX's, for an Impreza, with lowering springs. The struts will raise the ride height a bit, but it is not bad as the springs do a drop as well.

whtlegacy · 01-27-2004, 11:39 AM

I saw those pre-assembled struts at Teague's but I believe they were selling for ~$700. Can inserts really be had for less than $300? Are there any serious Legacy autocrossers running AGX's? On subarureview.com, some Legacy owner reviewed the AGX's too be soft in the rear even at full stiff.

Patrick Olsen · 01-27-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlie-III
I don't remember COBB having the adjustables preassembled. I do believe the preassembled ones they have/had are like the KYB GR2's which are non-adjustable.

COBB has a set of Koni inserts that are "valved different" than the other Koni inserts. I don't know the difference, or if it is worth the extra $200 - $300 over what others sell.

Like I said above, I don't see the assembled Koni struts on Cobb's site anymore, but a while back when I was shopping they did have them. Here is what the guy I spoke with via email at Koni-NA said:

Quote:

>I also know that Cobb Tuning in Texas sells both Koni Sports and Koni
>Double Adjustables for the WRX....are they available, or is that just a
>special deal that Cobb has arranged? !

Cobb Tuning has us build wet kits (converting a factory strut into a complete Koni strut) for the car so that he can get a double adjustable, full strut for the car. The wet kit can be done to any factory strut but is not the cheapest of options.

Quote:

Originally posted by whtlegacy
wow- only $285 for a set of 4 inserts? I was expecting the Koni's to run $500-$600.

Look again, my friend - that's $285 for KYB struts, not for Koni inserts. They don't list the Konis because it's not a common application - one end had to be special ordered from Holland in my case. I'd have to dig around to find the receipt, but I believe the inserts were around $500 or so, so your hunch is correct. If you want to find out for sure, just fill out the quote request on shox.com - you need 8610-1317s and 8610-1318s.

Pat

whtlegacy · 02-02-2004, 12:12 AM

I got a price quote for the Koni's and it turned out to come to nearly $600. I'd like to go with the AGX's if they work, but I'd really like to hear from some people who have used AGX's on their Legacy with high spring rates. I believe there is a 200-300 lb weight difference between the 1st gen Impreza and the 2nd generation Legacy. Any experiences?

biggreen96 · 02-02-2004, 04:54 PM

Well I run my agx' with whitelines and am very pleased, again they are too stiff for daily stuff, but are RAD at autoX and when you go canyon carving. The lowest setting are equal to stock so thats what I run day to day.
theres pics of my car in numerous threads to get a picture of the stance you will get.

whtlegacy · 02-02-2004, 05:26 PM

So do you turn them all the way up for autox? or is there still some more damping beyond what the whitelines need? I have seen your car. do you still have that CF hood?

biggreen96 · 02-02-2004, 07:07 PM

nope hood was sold to jsiwek.
I turn the rears all the way 8/8 to partly make up for my lack of a big rear sway. I put the fronts at 3-4/4, otherwise it was skipping out when I hit hard creases in the parking lot. Whiteline told me that agx's are a great match for these springs.

01-25-2004, 07:40 PM	#1
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	Legacy AutoX Suspension Options I'm running a set of KYB GR2's (designed for the Legacy GT) on my Legacy/OB but I'm looking for something much stiffer to match my Eibach springs (340lb/ft front, 250 lb/ft rear) which are certainly too stiff for these struts. I've considered KYB AGX's but I've heard that even at the stiffest setting, they still aren't very firm. I know Patrick Olson is using the Koni inserts, but it sounds like it's quite a hassle to install them. Are there are any super-stiff struts out there, preferably adjustable that you guys would recommend? Also, what do you think of my spring rates? These were recommended by the guys at Ground Control, but I'm open to other options. And finally, I'm currently using Ground Control Sleeve-Overs to adjust my ride height. These necessitate fairly short springs that sit on top of an adjustable perch. Are these hurting or helping my handling? As much as I like the adjustable ride height, maybe conventional lowering springs would be better. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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01-25-2004, 09:11 PM	#2
Patrick Olsen NASIOC Supporter Member#: 120 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: AKIC Location: Where the Navy sends me... Vehicle: 1997 Legacy 2.5GT QuickSilver Metallic	You can go with Konis without the hassle by getting them from Cobb - they sell them fully assembled and even painted Koni Yellow. Oooooohhhh, Ahhhhhh! They'll even do Double Adjustables, which (as the name implies) allow independent adjustment of bump and rebound damping. I'm already thinking I might end up getting the ones I've just installed custom re-valved to allow me to do the same thing. I haven't really fiddled with them yet, so it's a bit early in the game to make that decision... Anyway, the big downer on Cobb's Konis is the cost, which is why I chose to install mine myself. Oh, and I just checked their website and I don't see the full struts advertised, just the inserts, so maybe now that Cobb is offering full coil-overs they've decided not to do the fully prepped Konis. As for your spring rates, I would say your front/rear split it too big, but I guess it depends on how you like the car to handle. Plus I imagine the extra ass-end weight of the wagon probably makes it rotate a bit better than a sedan, I dunno. I'm running 325f/280r, front 20mm sway bar, rear adjustable maxed out at 22mm, and I think the car still understeers more than I would like. I may try some 300# springs - either 300f/280r or 325f/300r to see how that feels. Last but not least, I think the GCs are a great idea, even if you never use them to change ride heights (I pretty much intend to just set mine and forget 'em). There are a bazillion different spring rate combinations you can use with the standard 2.5" coil-over springs, way more than you could ever hope to try with conventional springs. If you don't like the way the car rides or handles, you can fine tune it (as I plan on doing). Pat OlsEn '97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

01-25-2004, 09:57 PM	#3
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	Thanks for the info. I definately agree that my rear spring rate is too low. Luckily, I think GC exchanges springs for free. I'm definately going to look into some inserts if I can find someone to the whole process of installing the Koni's into the struts.

01-25-2004, 10:20 PM	#4
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	Hey Patrick, Did you get the single or double adjustable struts? Also, where did you purchase them from?

01-25-2004, 11:34 PM	#5
sybir Scooby Specialist Member#: 4615 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Don of the Wagon Mafia Vehicle: 05 STi, 97 Leg OB	Hmmmmm. I'm running WRX struts and GC's, with 315 progressives in the front and 250 progressives in the back. Are you running linears? The progressives are great, they start out soft enough not to kill on the freeway, but they ramp up quickly, and I can only bottom if i'm fully committed in a high speed corner and then hit a large, abrupt dip or bump. Not as perfectly predictable as linear springs, but they feel pretty good on my car, and I ran support for a trackday last week, loaded down with a set of wheels and tires, jacks, stands, air tanks, tools, chairs, awning, etc, and I still wasn't having any handling issues; the only reason I had to slow down was to keep the back of the car from looking like a "Vomit Comet" cabin video, with everything suspended in midair.... That said, I haven't autoXed the thing yet, waiting for the tranny swap. It's underdamped, sure, but the rates seem to be high enough that it doesn't bounce at all. I'm sure when I start pushing it, I'll see room for improvement. All this is on 215/45/17 SO-3's, which have the stiffest sidewalls I've ever run on.....

01-26-2004, 02:26 AM	#6
NiTRoN Scooby Specialist Member#: 30556 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland, Ohio Vehicle: 2000 Legacy GT (BE) over 250,000 Miles	whitelegacy.. Nice to know scooby from around here

01-26-2004, 04:23 AM	#8
Patrick Olsen NASIOC Supporter Member#: 120 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: AKIC Location: Where the Navy sends me... Vehicle: 1997 Legacy 2.5GT QuickSilver Metallic	I have single adjustables, which I got from shox.com. They pretty much have the best Koni prices you'll find anywhere, and they do free shipping on Konis in the continental US. I didn't even ask for a break on mine and the guy volunteered to knock off some of the shipping cost (2nd day air to Hawaii is expensive, so I never expected to get it free, but they took $50 or something like that off). Pat

01-26-2004, 11:34 AM	#9
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	wow- only $285 for a set of 4 inserts? I was expecting the Koni's to run $500-$600.

01-26-2004, 06:46 PM	#11
biggreen96 Scooby Specialist Member#: 12535 Join Date: Nov 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Idaho slash Washington Vehicle: vf39 93 Legacy Wagon 92 Legacy Rally EG33'd	IMO the AGX's are very stiff at maximum, so much that its unbearable for street use. I run them allmost full soft when im not autoXing.

01-26-2004, 07:16 PM	#12
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	I like the fact that the AGX's adjust both rebound compression and also that I wouldn't have to deal with chopping open my struts. Any other Legacy owners have any input on maximum stiffness of the AGX's? There are no Legacy specific AGX's right?

01-26-2004, 09:50 PM	#13
nuburu2 Scooby Specialist Member#: 2609 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Roseville, Ca, USA Vehicle: 98 BK-GT White '97 SVX Ebony Pearl	I think there is a BC/BF application but all the folks I know of running them use the Impreza unit on the BD/BG cars, as do I. I've really felt no need to adjust them for street use in the 14-15 months they've been in the car, a Wagon. Set initially at 2F4R with WhiteLine lowering springs. My impression is one could make themselves relatively "uncomfortable" with the settings maxed out on them (4F8R), or tame a high spring rate spring set. Personally, I think I'd go with the STi top mounts were I doing it today, especially with AutoX in mind. Glenn O

01-27-2004, 11:29 AM	#14
Charlie-III Scooby Specialist Member#: 30669 Join Date: Dec 2002 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: 07456, North NJ Vehicle: 1998 Legacy 2.5GT Silver Sleeper Wagon	I think Teagues (look in the vendors section) also has the Koni's preassembled and maybe Tire Rack. I don't remember COBB having the adjustables preassembled. I do believe the preassembled ones they have/had are like the KYB GR2's which are non-adjustable. COBB has a set of Koni inserts that are "valved different" than the other Koni inserts. I don't know the difference, or if it is worth the extra $200 - $300 over what others sell. Quite a few use the KYB AGX's, for an Impreza, with lowering springs. The struts will raise the ride height a bit, but it is not bad as the springs do a drop as well.

01-27-2004, 11:39 AM	#15
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	I saw those pre-assembled struts at Teague's but I believe they were selling for ~$700. Can inserts really be had for less than $300? Are there any serious Legacy autocrossers running AGX's? On subarureview.com, some Legacy owner reviewed the AGX's too be soft in the rear even at full stiff.

02-02-2004, 12:12 AM	#17
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	I got a price quote for the Koni's and it turned out to come to nearly $600. I'd like to go with the AGX's if they work, but I'd really like to hear from some people who have used AGX's on their Legacy with high spring rates. I believe there is a 200-300 lb weight difference between the 1st gen Impreza and the 2nd generation Legacy. Any experiences?

02-02-2004, 04:54 PM	#18
biggreen96 Scooby Specialist Member#: 12535 Join Date: Nov 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Idaho slash Washington Vehicle: vf39 93 Legacy Wagon 92 Legacy Rally EG33'd	Well I run my agx' with whitelines and am very pleased, again they are too stiff for daily stuff, but are RAD at autoX and when you go canyon carving. The lowest setting are equal to stock so thats what I run day to day. theres pics of my car in numerous threads to get a picture of the stance you will get.

02-02-2004, 05:26 PM	#19
whtlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 38400 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cleveland Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon DRZ400SM	So do you turn them all the way up for autox? or is there still some more damping beyond what the whitelines need? I have seen your car. do you still have that CF hood?

02-02-2004, 07:07 PM	#20
biggreen96 Scooby Specialist Member#: 12535 Join Date: Nov 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Idaho slash Washington Vehicle: vf39 93 Legacy Wagon 92 Legacy Rally EG33'd	nope hood was sold to jsiwek. I turn the rears all the way 8/8 to partly make up for my lack of a big rear sway. I put the fronts at 3-4/4, otherwise it was skipping out when I hit hard creases in the parking lot. Whiteline told me that agx's are a great match for these springs.