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Old 01-28-2004, 05:52 PM   #1
TyranosaurusWRX
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Default LM-1 A/F users

If you buy the basic package($350), is that enough to tune on? I've been told that you have to buy extra parts to make it recognize RPMs. Can you still tune w/o it? Just curious how it's set up.


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Old 01-28-2004, 05:56 PM   #2
Drac9
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It's got a dispaly. So if you can watch the display while you drive then you can tune by it. If you have an aftermarket ECU you can have the LM-1 emulate a standard narrow-band o2 for tuning.
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:03 PM   #3
SleeperWRX
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you're gonna need to log the a/f with its corresponding RPM AND boost to get any kind of useful data to tune by.
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:39 PM   #4
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I never had a problem watching the A/F as I drive. As long as you use a pretty high gear, the revs go up slowly and you can see where you need to iron out. You could also just have someone else drive while you tune, or vice versa.
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Old 01-28-2004, 07:44 PM   #5
sideways slut
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ya, ive been teaching my girlfriend how to tune
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Old 01-28-2004, 08:32 PM   #6
Aaron'sWRX
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The kit for 350 will give you an acurate a/f ratio if you can watch it while driving. Otherwise, you will also need to purchase the RPM converter cable which is 100 bucks. That will allow you to download the data into a spreadsheet to see where you need to make adjustments. Also, if you have delta dash, they are working on a way to integrate the lm-1 with deltadash. You wouldnt have to puchase the RPM converter ad deltadash would show the rpm's.

Aaron
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Old 01-28-2004, 09:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
I never had a problem watching the A/F as I drive. As long as you use a pretty high gear, the revs go up slowly and you can see where you need to iron out. You could also just have someone else drive while you tune, or vice versa.
I imagine vehicle speed gets pretty high while doing this, in which case you probably should be concentrating on the road ahead. One clever method I've seen is to strap a video camera to the driver's headrest and focus it on your gauges. You video record your high speed run and then you can play back at your leisure the readings from the speedo, tach and A/F meter, along with any other aftermarket gauges like EGT, boost and fuel pressure.
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Old 01-28-2004, 09:58 PM   #8
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That's a very good idea.
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Old 01-28-2004, 10:42 PM   #9
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One can extend the video camera as data logger to knock detection, too. Just run a microphone from the engine bay to the camera's MIC input. A more sophisticated method would be to tap the knock sensor's signal and record it as audio. I wrote the following in a previous thread.

Here's a relatively simple and inexpensive approach you might want to consider. It relies on your ear/brain to detect knock in realtime and a spectrographic analysis of the recorded sound to detect barely audible knock during a post-run computer analysis of the signal.

The basic idea is to tap the stock knock sensor's signal and convert it to a signal that can be recorded via the MIC input of a cassette recorder, video camera or PC sound card and, while it's being recorded, you can monitor it via headphones connected to the recorder.

A simple circuit to accomlish the conversion is described at http://pw1.netcom.com/~bsundahl/knock/listen/listen.htm. The post-run analysis is described at http://pw1.netcom.com/~bsundahl/knoc...nockSounds.htm and relies on freeware called Gram V5.0, which can be downloaded via http://www.simtel.net/product.downlo...rs.php?id=9440.



Using the spectrographic analysis program, it's fairly easy to spot knock because its sound falls in pitch with respect to time. This produces a short slanted line on the spectrograph. This characteristic of knock's sound is decribed briefly at http://www.osu.edu/units/research/archive/knock.htm as:
Quote:
The researchers took advantage of the fact that the pitch of the sound (acoustic resonance) induced by knock changes with the combustion temperatures. As combustion progresses the temperature in the combustion chamber rises and then falls. Knock typically starts when combustion chamber temperature is near its peak. Thus, the pitch of the knocking sound becomes lower with time, and this gives rise to a characteristic vibration signature. The software tells the computer to look for vibrations with this characteristic drop in pitch, and ignore all the others.
When you identify knock via spectrographic analysis, you can edit the audio file to replay that section over and over to help train your ear to recognize it better in the future. It's also frequently possible to identify the RPM at which the knock occured because a cylinder typically knocks for several consecutive combustions and you can measure the time between combustions and compute what the RPM must have been.
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
I imagine vehicle speed gets pretty high while doing this, in which case you probably should be concentrating on the road ahead. One clever method I've seen is to strap a video camera to the driver's headrest and focus it on your gauges. You video record your high speed run and then you can play back at your leisure the readings from the speedo, tach and A/F meter, along with any other aftermarket gauges like EGT, boost and fuel pressure.
Yup, but noone ever said I was the darkest sharpie in the box.

Not a bad idea with the camcorder, though. I don't know about logging knock along with it, but I suppose if your ears aren't good enough then anything would help out.
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:26 AM   #11
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I have mine with 2 narrow band outputs going to Apexi turbo timer A/F and PnP Link ECU. This way the box is hidden, I can watch the A/F on the Apexi and datalog and even run in autotune mode with Link.
It's a great unit, I will be buying the rpm converter just so that I can hook it up to my race car and datalog that as well.

Alex...
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Old 02-05-2004, 05:11 AM   #12
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say i buy this... where should i place the o2 sensor? should i just replace the factory front? i have the utec.. i am just wanting this on all the time... can i use the auxillary outpt to display AFR in the utec Dashboard?
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:23 AM   #13
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No, you don't want to put WB O2 in the wherer the factory front sensor is. There is too much temperature and pressure there and if the sensor will read at all, the readings will be useless. You will need to put it somewhere downstream from turbo but before the cats. There is instructions with the kit and the faq on their website as well as very informative user group on yahoo.

Alex...
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Old 02-06-2004, 07:16 AM   #14
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if you get the godspeed downpipe, there is a bung right on top (right after the turbo) that you can screw it into...

...the problem i have is getting the stupid bolt out of there now.
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:39 AM   #15
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quoted from the manual: "install the sensor downsteam from the turbo before the catalytic converter"
so id imagine right after the turbo would be to close and you would contstantly throw errors (sensor heat error) unless you install a heat sheld.
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:55 AM   #16
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Mine was 3" after the turbo and I never had heating issues with it.

Also, I believe the later revisions of the firmware just flashed and kept displaying the A/F if it was overheated... just flashing indicating that it's not entirely accurate.
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:56 AM   #17
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I have mine in the bung right after the turbo in my BRM downpipe. I've never gotten the sensor error yet. It may have to do with the fact that the downpipe is ceramic coated and as such does not transmit as much heat to the sensor body.

Alex...
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Old 02-06-2004, 12:07 PM   #18
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i have mine right after my gutted cat and iv gotten a few errors, not many(like 6 in since i got it with the group buy) but i have. its as simple as pulling the power and pluging it back it and problem solved.
i dont mean to highjack this at all, but have you guys made the remote display or do you use the main unit? id like to see some pics of your displays for ideas. i want to make one but im just not sure where i could mount it and still have a CLEAN looking interior. if only defi made a air/fuel ratio in there visual displays.


jay
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by sideways slut
ya, ive been teaching my girlfriend how to tune
My girlfriend is learning to tune too. I love having a co-pilot.

-Jared.
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Old 02-07-2004, 02:08 AM   #20
amelnikov
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Quote:
Originally posted by sideways slut
i dont mean to highjack this at all, but have you guys made the remote display or do you use the main unit? id like to see some pics of your displays for ideas. i want to make one but im just not sure where i could mount it and still have a CLEAN looking interior. if only defi made a air/fuel ratio in there visual displays.
jay
I use apex-i turbo timer with A/F ratio, O2 voltage and battery voltmeter built in. I use one of the outputs of the LM1 hooked up to it ( the other goes to the Link ECU) and hide the LM1 in the glove box. This way I see the A/F on the apex-i display, my Link is happy knowing that it's getting real readings and the bulky box is hidden. Here is an install done by IMPRZV1, very clean. Mine is just stuck on top and does not look too bad either.






Alex...
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Last edited by amelnikov; 02-07-2004 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 02-07-2004, 09:16 AM   #21
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what are you doing with the factory rear o2 sensor? are you zip tie-ing it up on something with a bag over it or what?
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:16 AM   #22
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The front one is in a box in my shed and the rear one is just there for looks mostly. It still has the heater connected so that it does not die but the signal wire is clipped and insulated.

Alex...
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:29 AM   #23
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i forgot you're running the link ecu.

anyone have an idea as to what to do with the rear o2 sensor when you put the wb o2 sensor in its place? I'd like to do something that avoids a CEL.
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Old 02-07-2004, 03:06 PM   #24
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What ecu are you running? Also the kit has a bung and plug as a part of the deal, you could have that welded in place, and just plug it when not is use. That way you don't have to worry about the stocker.
MCL
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Old 02-07-2004, 09:17 PM   #25
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stock ecu....I guess i'll have the bung welded at the end of my DP. you're right that's probably the best idea.

Last edited by SleeperWRX; 02-07-2004 at 09:30 PM.
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