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Old 01-29-2004, 07:59 AM   #1
LiquidForce
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Default Possible UTEC hack?

Would it be possible to bypass the o2 sensor wires on the utec harness so it goes straight to the ecu. Then you could wire in a true wideband right to the UTEC. Then the logs on the UTEC would have a true AFR capabiliteis. The only reasons this wouldn't work is if the UTEC actually uses the input and the voltage input is not in the UTECs range.

A techedge setup for this would only cost about 300 since you don't need the display or logging capabilities/
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:08 PM   #2
SleeperWRX
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the utec reads rich under 12:1 (i think its 12:1) because the stock sensor is only accurate down to that point. So the new sensor would accurately read richer than 12:1 but the UTEC would still just say rich.

good idea tho if you could convert the voltage to the same range as the stock sensor...and there was a way to make the UTEC show the values below 12:1
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:44 PM   #3
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I'm pretty sure the UTEC can display whatever the A/F is. The drawback is in the semi-wideband O2 sensor the WRX comes with. The TXS Tuner comes with a wideband O2, and the UTEC can read that accurately.
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
the utec reads rich under 12:1 (i think its 12:1) because the stock sensor is only accurate down to that point. So the new sensor would accurately read richer than 12:1 but the UTEC would still just say rich.
If this is a problem then I could have Autlogger add a column to the logs that is derived from the voltage.
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:11 PM   #5
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I asked Nathan one time about trying to log A/F with the techedge I had and he said it wouldn't work, that's all I asked.
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:07 PM   #6
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I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work. If you have the calibration for the voltage, it's pretty simple I would think. The only caveat might be that it has to be in the same voltage range as the stock sensor (hopefully the voltage would be too high which can be adjusted with resistors of course). Assuming the amperage is very close so you won't blow out the circuitry of the UTEC as well.

Maybe you can call it the Minnow!

Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidForce
If this is a problem then I could have Autlogger add a column to the logs that is derived from the voltage.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:33 AM   #7
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Does anyone know the specs (voltage and amperage) for the stock 02 sensor? Tech-Edge has the information for their widebands but I can't dig it up for the stock one.
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:13 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure the stock sensor is 0-1V and a most wideband o2 sensors are 5-0V. Check out the LM-1, it has an analog narrowband output (the 0-1v range). It's only 350 bucks.

Any reason why the TurboXS TUNA is ruled out? The knock functionaly makes it worth the extra money IMO.
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:34 PM   #9
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The stock sensor is a wb (or near wb) sensor. It has two outputs and the AFR's need to be calculated from them. You can't just simply hook up a single voltage to the dual wires and get it to display correctly.

Even if you could, you'd have to hack the software/firmware in the UTEC itself to display anything out of it's normal range.

I think their TurboXS Tuner is your only option to get true WB input.
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Old 01-30-2004, 01:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
The stock sensor is a wb (or near wb) sensor.
That's right. the UTEC is getting the A/F from the front wideband sensor. The reason (partially) the UTEC reads rich is that the sensor is inaccurate under boost; the exhaust back pressure screws with the reading.

If you could get another wideband after the turbo and connect that one to the UTEC (and rout the original to the ECU), the UTEC needs to be told the signal is OK and display below 12:1. 'Course, this assumes the UTEC intecepts the sensor input and can convert it for the ecu (or for itself and lets the orginal signal go to the ECU). I think it is really reading off of an ECU output.

Tom

Last edited by SlideWRX; 01-30-2004 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
If you could get another wideband after the turbo and connect that one to the UTEC (and rout the original to the ECU), the UTEC needs to be told the signal is OK and display below 12:1. 'Course, this assumes the UTEC intecepts the sensor input and can convert it for the ecu (or for itself and lets the orginal signal go to the ECU). I think it is really reading off of an ECU output.
That's what I was suggesting. The point you bring up about wether the signal has already been processed by the ECU before it gets to the UTEC would make it impossible. I don't think that is the case though looking at the harness.
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Any reason why the TurboXS TUNA is ruled out? The knock functionaly makes it worth the extra money IMO.

700 reasons. If this would work it would cost less than 300. If you are capable of putting a DIY kit together its less than 200.
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:23 PM   #13
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Lets not let this fall off please... I have a techedge, and an LM1 that allows me to see A/F realtime in the deltadash, I wonder if some of the UTEC loggers that have been written could import this information? Time to head over to wrxhackers I think
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlideWRX
That's right. the UTEC is getting the A/F from the front wideband sensor. The reason (partially) the UTEC reads rich is that the sensor is inaccurate under boost; the exhaust back pressure screws with the reading.


Tom

Thats false information. The ECU's Rom file calibrates the Sensor for exhaust backpressure. The Sensor itself has a bottom edge limit of 11 to 1. The Sensor is very acurate up until that point.

I would be interested in a Utec logger that would pick up the serial input from a second com port to read WB data into the logs. I have a Rom file for the LM1 Wideband that gives you that output on the Serial. It works with Delta dash and the Flash program for ECUtek.

Clark
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Old 02-02-2004, 05:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlideWRX
That's right. the UTEC is getting the A/F from the front wideband sensor.
This, also, is wrong. The UTEC completely ignores the signal from the front A/F sensor. If you tell the UTEC to log it, then the UTEC will use the same method as DeltaDash to acquire that info - it interogates the stock ECU.
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlideWRX
'Course, this assumes the UTEC intecepts the sensor input and can convert it for the ecu (or for itself and lets the orginal signal go to the ECU). I think it is really reading off of an ECU output.

Tom
Which is what Jon says above. I implied, but did not explicitly say in detail that the UTEC gets A/F from the front sensor, through the ECU. I apologize.

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
The ECU's Rom file calibrates the Sensor for exhaust backpressure. The Sensor itself has a bottom edge limit of 11 to 1. The Sensor is very acurate up until that point.
Clark
Huh. One wonders why the UTEC does not display this far down. It has been asked here and elsewhere why it displays 'rich' below ~12:1, and the most common (and undebated - that I had seen) answer was excessive back pressure. learn something new everyday.

Tom
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
The UTEC completely ignores the signal from the front A/F sensor. If you tell the UTEC to log it, then the UTEC will use the same method as DeltaDash to acquire that info - it interogates the stock ECU
So what this says is that a seperate interface will have to be written. The UTEC will NOT log, so we need something along the lines of a utec logger type of interface. Somethat that will pull information from both the UTEC and a seperate interface (like the labjack).
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlideWRX
Which is what Jon says above. I implied, but did not explicitly say in detail that the UTEC gets A/F from the front sensor, through the ECU. I apologize.



Huh. One wonders why the UTEC does not display this far down. It has been asked here and elsewhere why it displays 'rich' below ~12:1, and the most common (and undebated - that I had seen) answer was excessive back pressure. learn something new everyday.

Tom
Tom. Because the System is a Closed loop/ open loop system the AF sensor has one job in life. To measure 14.7 to 1 for closed loop operation. It does that with super acuracy. The sensor reads down to 11 to 1 and to that point it is very acurate. It will read with my LM1 wideband until 11.2 to 1 where the LM1 reads 10.8 to 1. At all other times they are spot on or with in .1. The only thing that I can think that would skew the readings would be a wild EGT difference over a stock car (not common) or a wild pressure difference. I have that wild pressure difference in my turbo setup and the readings seem to be spot on.

Cya

Clark
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
I would be interested in a Utec logger that would pick up the serial input from a second com port to read WB data into the logs. I have a Rom file for the LM1 Wideband that gives you that output on the Serial. It works with Delta dash and the Flash program for ECUtek.

It would be easy to make my Autologger app merge wideband data from another serial port. I already have the wideband column in the new version for the "Tuna". It would only be a problem for people with only one serial port.

My question though is if you already are using a delta dash , don't you have more complete logging anyways?
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:43 PM   #20
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It keeps folks from having to buy the deltadash for one, and another is that it allows you see exactly which cell the UTEC is in immediately without having to go through the hassle of figure out load vs. MAP)
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