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Old 02-03-2004, 12:51 AM   #1
crazyhorse
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Cool 600cc Injectors for free

Ok.. starting a different thread here because well... The other has gotten way too long.

Here's the deal:

740cc is just toooo much for me. My power goals are around 300whp and I'm running a 16G turbo (or will be very soon rather) So... I don't wanna pay $400 for injectors.. but I don't want too much fuel so the cutting off the cap method isn't for me. What do I do?

After nhluhr talked about the hole size and drilling it out a bit bigger I figured I'd give it a shot. (Was his idea originally not mine) Kingpin (awesome vendor!) was kind enough to send me a test set of injectors. So... I had one drilled and sent to RC for testing. Basically... all I had done was to have the original holes widened.

Drill bit size: .5mm



Looks a lil rough.. kinda scared me at first.. was done by hand by a very good goldsmith friend of mine. She's practically an artist with a dremel. Anyways.... I FINALLY got the results back from RC Engineering.





What size drill bit you ask? Well... I'm not sure yet. She's on vacation at the moment. I'll find out tomorrow and let you know. As you can tell by the picture, you can't go much bigger at the risk of going into the other holes. You could drill more holes, but that's a bit tougher and I'll leave that for someone else to test out unless I can get another set. It cost me $33 with shipping to get this one injector cleaned and flow tested. I plan on sending one more to make sure they match and then these puppies are going on my car.
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Last edited by crazyhorse; 02-03-2004 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:08 AM   #2
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....mmmm....I've got drills all the way down to #80.....ch...you may have solved my dilema of what to do with my 'blues'
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:56 AM   #3
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OK--let me be the first to provide the "mystery" values for the enlarged holes (i.e., drill bit size). I took crazyhorse's photo over to photoshop and digitally measured the enlarged image of the injector tip and the new holes. Given that the blue injector tip is 8.13 mm in diameter, the holes are now 0.49 mm diam. In our English system this equates to 0.32 inches = tip X 0.019 in. holes. These numbers are approximate, but should be pretty accurate.

Mark
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Old 02-03-2004, 09:37 AM   #4
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Now it's a matter of drilling consistency to make 4 injectors with matching flow...
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Old 02-03-2004, 09:51 AM   #5
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Well.. the good news is.. if you use the same tip I don't see how you could mess it up. GOOD idea with photoshop!! I didn't even think of that. We'll see how close you are when I call her today!
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Old 02-03-2004, 12:01 PM   #6
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Well done man. way to take this to the nexy level. Keep up the good work. If I can help in any way please let me know. Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:33 PM   #7
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Damn good work with photoshop!! Just got off the phone with Terry...


The drill bit was .5mm

Last edited by crazyhorse; 02-03-2004 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:07 PM   #8
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Hey there, I hope noone kills me for this cause you all obviously think this is good an all but I have a question. If you can tune for 740cc injectors, then what's the harm in having injectors that are a little bugger then needed? Isn't the lower duty cycle a good thing? I mean, you already paid for the engine management, why pay for modified injectors when you can get one with lower duty cycles for less? Thanks,

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Old 02-03-2004, 07:11 PM   #9
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It's merely another option. Who said anything about paying?

600cc = easier to tune for. If you bothered to read the other thread there are concenrs about timing when tuning for 740s.

AND.. if you need more than 600 later.. well just take the cap completely off and the problem is solved.

Edited to not hurt Hippy's feelings

Last edited by crazyhorse; 02-03-2004 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:34 PM   #10
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What other thread? Eh, sorry to inch in on your thread I guess.

peace
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:39 PM   #11
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The 740cc thread. If you pull a ton of fuel out you run into timing concerns. This is a free mod too really... it's just a lil trickier and takes a steady hand.
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:56 PM   #12
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yeh, I have more concerns about drilling holes in the injector then what the ecu wants to do with the timing while my utec controls it. I dunno, I didn't mean to throw your thread off, I just thought people would get more consistent results by taking the cap off then by drilling holes in it. I know the concerns, I just don't get the difference between 740 and 600 when tuning(other then cold starts).....
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:24 PM   #13
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That looks very shady to me. I would feel much better taking the disk right off. If you look at the original holes in the injectors closely you will see they arent holes at all. They have a shape to them that helps the pattern.(not that i feel the pattern means much at all) I would also be concerned about getting drill shavings behind the disk that might dislodge and plug a hole.
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:27 PM   #14
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that's what I'm saying. All this and having to get them flow tested just because some people have concerns about tuning and timing? I just thought the origional concept was amazing and this is a little much(course I'm just trollin).....
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:37 PM   #15
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Uh guys... RC Engineering knows more about injectors than anyone here... If they tell me my spray pattern is excellent.. I'm going to believe them. But.. if you don't want to do it.. then don't.

Simple fact... it works. I got 600cc's and that was my goal. RC Engineering says the spray pattern is Excellent.. and since the injector has been flowed... It's pretty obvious that there are no shavings in it. Not like it would be hard to clean it out yourself with some carb cleaner or something.

This isn't rocket science... and our engines are not super delicate pieces of machinery. The sooner people get that through their heads the better off the community will be in general. Time to try something new instead of just doing whatever the next company that comes out says is the way to do it.
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazyhorse
Uh guys... RC Engineering knows more about injectors than anyone here... If they tell me my spray pattern is excellent.. I'm going to believe them. But.. if you don't want to do it.. then don't.

Simple fact... it works. I got 600cc's and that was my goal. RC Engineering says the spray pattern is Excellent.. and since the injector has been flowed... It's pretty obvious that there are no shavings in it. Not like it would be hard to clean it out yourself with some carb cleaner or something.

This isn't rocket science... and our engines are not super delicate pieces of machinery. The sooner people get that through their heads the better off the community will be in general. Time to try something new instead of just doing whatever the next company that comes out says is the way to do it.
Not only is it about time someone said it, it was well said.

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Old 02-03-2004, 08:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Simple fact... it works. I got 600cc's and that was my goal. RC Engineering says the spray pattern is Excellent.. and since the injector has been flowed... It's pretty obvious that there are no shavings in it. Not like it would be hard to clean it out yourself with some carb cleaner or something.
I'm glad you got your injector to flow the right amount, but do you think all four will? If all four do, do you think it's worth paying to get all them flow tested when the origional mod required no flow testing? If you haven't tried tuning 740cc injectors, why do you think they would be so much harder then tuning your 600's? I don't see the logic in making a cost free carefree mod into a test of how well someone can hold a drill and if the injector will flow the right amount.......
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Old 02-03-2004, 09:18 PM   #18
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Hippy... When you know something about tuning.. then come back and get on my case. Until then... Keep your ignorant comments to yourself please. I have a very good friend running 740s and I've helped him on some of his maps so yes, in fact, I have worked with the 740s. I have NO need for 740s and it's more trouble than it's worth for me to run them. So... troll elsewhere. If you want to run 740s.. go cut the caps off. This thread is for people interested in running slightly less than that.

And for the mentally challenged in the group... If you drill out holes with a .5 mm drill bit.. and use the same size drill bit for each hole.. Naturally... the holes will be the same size. So... they're going to flow the same. There is no test as to how well Terry can hold a drill. She's a qualified professional and does incredible work.

Also... I'm the only person putting up my own money to have the injectors flow tested to ensure the mod works. After that you can drill them yourself or whatever works for you. This is simply another option. Now... have I explained that enough times for you to get it through your head? I hope so because I'm done trying to explain.
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Old 02-03-2004, 10:01 PM   #19
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I'm interested in 600cc injectors, and am not experienced like you are in tuning, that's why I ask. I don't need 740cc injectors either, but it's nice to know that we can keep everything peaceful. Also, I must be mentally challenged, cause when I drill a hole in something, the hole usually gets bigger when I pull the bit out. I'm not a jeweler and don't know the ins and outs of drilling a perfect hole, but I don't really think it can be done by hand(could be wrong). On a realistic note, I'd like to know when you have finished tuning a car with these injectors and if it was any easier then your friends car(this is what I wanted in the first place but you have to be....). Ya think there will be a wave of people with 1 or 2 cylinders leaning out? "I swear it's stock".....
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Old 02-03-2004, 10:36 PM   #20
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wow spray pattern excellent!!!
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Old 02-03-2004, 10:40 PM   #21
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I can spray with the best of'em
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Old 02-03-2004, 10:53 PM   #22
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Did you get the results on the second one? I am curious if they both tested the same..

BTW nice going.

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Old 02-03-2004, 10:56 PM   #23
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Sending it out this week... I was still waiting for the paper on the 1st one. I'll probably send all 3 in for flow testing. I'm not sure that I want to spend the $24 each to have them cleaned.. I can clean them myself... but we'll see. $100 is still cheap for 600cc's I suppose. Remind me again why I turned down the offer for donations?!
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazyhorse
Remind me again why I turned down the offer for donations?!
I couldn't figure out that either Well anyway you slice it $100 is a steal for 600's

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Old 02-04-2004, 02:43 AM   #25
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Well....that damn 0.5mm bit is tiny.....
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