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Old 02-04-2004, 09:14 AM   #26
SlideWRX
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question about the drill:
It looks like from the picture that the holes are conical, and the actual hole is much smaller. Is that just an artifact of the picture?

can you get a different angle?

Thanks for the great work!

Tom
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:18 AM   #27
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Just a thing with the picture so far as I can tell. Unfortunately that's about the best I can do picture wise. I think the edges may just be raised a bit from pulling the drill bit back. I'll check'em out under a jewelers loupe today.
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Old 02-04-2004, 12:04 PM   #28
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Running 740cc injectors with a UTEC means if you need to pull fuel too much you'll be bringing the maf voltage sky high, right?
I'm not familiar with standalone but I could only assume you'd want to run the closest CC injectors you needed for your power goals.
Why not buy 1000cc for the stock turbo to have 3% IDC

jk
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Old 02-04-2004, 01:29 PM   #29
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The point of running injectors rated close to your power output I would imagine is the accuracy of tuning. I'd be willing to bet that the % error at lower IDCs is greater than at high IDCs.
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Old 02-04-2004, 01:52 PM   #30
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No guys, this has nothing to do with IDC. The reason 740cc are hard to tune for:
1. Some engine management devices won't be able to pull enough fuel at idle. You'll need to remove around 40-45% fuel at idel, some devices (like an S-AFC) only let you remove 30% max.

2. In order to get the proper fuel, you're removing a very large amount of voltage from the MAF signal. The ECU uses the MAF to measure engine load and calculate timing. When the ECU thinks its getting 40-45% less air flow than it really is, it raises the timing values immensly. Unless you do something to correct this, you are in for trouble. You're basically throwing all your ECU's maps completely off from where they're supposed to be.

The same things happen when you're using 600cc injectors (or anything larger than stock) but on a smaller scale (which is better.) If you know what you're doing and have the right management you can probably make the 740's work, but if you can get 600's for a bit more work, its probably worth it.
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Old 02-04-2004, 03:25 PM   #31
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^^^ Nice explaination Lotus..
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:32 AM   #32
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I think I'd feel a little better about doing this than the 740cc mod since you are preserving the spray pattern. The 740cc pattern is non existent and risky. I still would prefer to use a proper larger injector though. There are two key basic components to your motor making power. air and fuel. Mess with the fuel in ways that Denso never intended and you better be prepared to pay the consequences.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:47 AM   #33
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Great mod! Does anyone have an idea what the stock diameter of the holes in the injectors are?

I'm think it would be nice to use a slightly smaller bit to enlarge the holes in order to match the flow of the STI injectors.. Then you could use modified stock injectors with any of the standard software that is available for STI injectors: IE no dyno tuning necessary.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:56 AM   #34
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Same thought occurred to me, Thrash. I'm in Charlotte along with Crazyhorse and I'm not aware of a local tuner I'd trust with my car. Let me know if this is incorrect, Crazyhorse. I'm very interested in getting the Cobb re-flash once I get the new turbo and pump as well as mod the injectors. Having the injectors essentially mimic STi's would make the process clean and simple. I've heard it's not hard to over-tax the STi injectors with some turbo's though. I'm planning on a VF30/34/39. I believe I should be o.k. with STi's with any of those.

Scott
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Old 02-05-2004, 11:06 AM   #35
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You could get a smaller bit for sure... but I couldn't tell ya what that bit size would be. Maybe .4mm ?? I don't have the money to spend flowtesting a bunch of them I'm afraid. I don't see it being hard to tune another 50 cc's though. Gives you a lil breathing room.
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Old 02-05-2004, 11:18 AM   #36
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That makes sense, Crazyhorse. I guess the 600's could be run with an STi map for awhile?? AccessPort should help with the tuning. In all honesty, by the time I do this someone should have a custom map available for the 600's.

Scott

p.s. Just how long do I need to be a member and/or how many times do I need to post before I'm no longer a Newbie??
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Old 02-05-2004, 11:22 AM   #37
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Entirely too many posts I assure you... Though not many of the people that actually help out around here pay attention to that. There are lots of "gurus" that do nothing but post whore.

Should be picking up my other 3 injectors today. Guess I'll go ahead and pay the 75 bucks to have them flowed AND cleaned. Now I just need to get a UTec and I'm all set. Had to trade mine back when I blew my motor because of a rock taking out my radiator. The EJ20 lasts about 20 minutes air cooled in case anyone cares to know...
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Old 02-05-2004, 04:07 PM   #38
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e28fixer,
We can guesstimate the size for STI injector's flowrate using the assumption that the flowrate is proportional to the opening area.
Say 12 holes at 0.5mm diameter (=2.3562 sq. mm. total) flows 600cc.
Then 550cc would require (~ 2.1598 sq. mm) 12 holes of ~ 0.479 mm diameter.
Of course, a bench flow test can confirm how close to 550cc that would get you, but it should be within 5-10cc.
-H
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:01 PM   #39
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hphan... Prolly be easier to NOT drill a few holes than to try to find a "0.479 mm drill bit". i.e. leaving 3 holes the "stock" size and drilling 9 holes to 0.5 mm. will get you 560cc (based on 440cc as stock flow). You could probably figure out how many holes to drill to get "X" amount of additional flow for whatever size injectors in between 440 and 740 cc, a chart of sorts. MIGHT* be a good tuning solution for someone with a few mods that doesn't wanna pony up $$ for engine management. HTH's -Chuck

* includes standard disclaimer = Do at own risk /peril. Not responsible for grenaded engines of any type by this idea.

Last edited by ataac_flat04; 02-06-2004 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:03 PM   #40
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Pardon me if I'm overlooking something obvious, but I don't think simply using the same drill bit can guarantee that all holes you drill will be the same size.

If the drill bit goes through the cap at an angle instead of perpendicularly, the hole will be oval instead of circular, right? It will be a larger opening, and the area of the opening will depend on the precise angle.

If you're doing these by hand, it seems like the same bit could yield holes of slightly different sizes and shape. The difference may be negligible if you have a steady hand; I don't know. I just wanted to bring up the point.
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:31 PM   #41
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ok. if anyone can get a set to flow 550 cc I'll pay em to do a set for me. I am not going to pay for a set of pinks when this can be done. I guess i'll have tobuy another set of blues, because I got so excited by the original post that I cut the tops off of a set knowing full well that there is no way athat I can use 740cc of flow.
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:07 AM   #42
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Nice mod. I see a business in someone's future. All you need is a nice micro drill press and some clamps.
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Old 02-08-2004, 07:14 PM   #43
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ok, small noob just trying to get things straight here.

so you enlarged all of the holes? and(from the pic), it looks like you just widened the mouth of the hole....or did you drill straight through?
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Old 02-08-2004, 11:19 PM   #44
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I'm sure it wouldn't flow more unless the actually enlarged the holes.
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Old 02-09-2004, 08:31 AM   #45
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They were all drilled by a jewler @ 0.5 mm all the way thru--the photo doesn't show that well.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:32 AM   #46
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bump for safekeeping on 1st page
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:35 AM   #47
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I'll pick the other 3 up sometime this week... got a lot going on at the moment so I haven't had much time to devote to this.
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:50 AM   #48
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Blam.. to the top
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Old 02-14-2004, 01:57 PM   #49
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aaron'swrx and i are doing this mod
we bought some .5s from www.mcmaster.com , pretty nicely priced, and theres a good goldsmith in town that does it he also is good enough to space the holes out while keeping an actual circle

Last edited by White 2.5rs; 02-15-2004 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 02-16-2004, 09:37 AM   #50
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Let us know the labor and total cost. Many are poised to follow suit.
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