Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday September 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Southern California Impreza Club
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Chapters > Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2004, 02:20 PM   #1
mca
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5447
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Vehicle:
2002 95 Integra GS-R
92 Sentra SE-R, 90 Miata

Default Exhaust Ticket Information VC 27151 & Similar

Due to the number of emails and PMs I receive on the subject I want to post all this info for everyone to see and hopefully search in the future. Here's the response to a PM I received today:

Here's all the info I used in fighting my exhaust ticket. As for the actual written declaration, I don't have my original. I'll break it down into steps:

1) Declare NOT GUILTY
2) Cite VC text referenced on ticket (i.e. VC 27151 (a)
3) Explain why not guilty
4) Cite specific portions of VC to support your statements (i.e. cite tests that are supposed to be performed, but weren't. noise levels that were alleged to be broken, but no proof from officer., etc.)
5) declare not guilty again and cite VC text another time.

That's it. Be sure to have at least one full page, preferably more.

Links:

http://ticketassassin.com/docs/forms050264.html

http://www.vfaq.com/BADSM/CHP-Exhaust.html
http://www.bikersrights.com/states/c...a/CJCKnox.html
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27151.htm
http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?ID=25897
http://forums.freshalloy.com/cgi-bin...pic&f=9&t=0129
01&p=
http://www.greddy.com/CHPnoisepolicies.html
http://www.arb.ca.gov/bluebook/bb95/vc/VC27150.TXT
http://www.arb.ca.gov/bluebook/bb95/vc/VC27151.TXT
http://www.chp.ca.gov/pdf/01-50.pdf
http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postq...ess=CUR&house=
B&site=sen
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/s...ll_20010723_ch
aptered.html
http://www.aftermarketworld.com/news.htm
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...&PROD_TYP=STD&
COMMON_SUCCESS=TRUE

ticket info

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc41501.htm
http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/a...77-A661-4A84-9
EC239EB95F0550E/catID/CF015A63-6B69-4EED-A34B6F4035C8BE0E
http://www.improv-ts.com/gota.htm
http://ticketassassin.com/docs/22349_sample3.html
http://www.ticketassassin.com/index.html
http://ticketassassin.com/docs/forms050264.html


Quote:
ivbdn wrote on 02-03-2004 10:29 AM:
I just got one today. I've read your posts (regarding the exhaust) and I was wondering if you could help me out as far as an outline of how to write my argument against the Officer's case. I would've registered at Ticket Assassin if it weren't for the fact that I was unemployed for way too long and haven't been working long enough to have any $$$ lying around.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
mca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 02:46 PM   #2
Psydotek
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44168
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: In your pant[ie]s.
Vehicle:
2003 Yellow WRX
with too many lights...

Default

Hmmm, suggest sticky? Or add to "Threads Of Interest" at the least...
Psydotek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 03:11 PM   #3
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Ok...I did a little research. I read the 2004 CVC for Section 27151(a) and laws relating to it as cited in paragraph (a).

Quote:
27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified.
Basically, I have to be in compliance with Section 27150 or Article 2.5 starting with Section 27200.

Quote:
27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar device.

(b) Except as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000) with respect to off-highway motor vehicles subject to identification, every passenger vehicle operated off the highways shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained so as to meet the requirements of Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200), and no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar device.

(c) The provisions of subdivision (b) shall not be applicable to passenger vehicles being operated off the highways in an organized racing or competitive event conducted under the auspices of a recognized sanctioning body or by permit issued by the local governmental authority having jurisdiction.
I have a muffler on with no leaks and therefore, it has been properly maintained. It has not been equipped with any of the other devices mentioned in the section.

Division 12, Chapter 5, Article 2.5, Section 27200

Quote:
27200. (a) The Department of Motor Vehicles shall not register on a dealer's report of sale a new motor vehicle, except an off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000), which produces a maximum noise exceeding the applicable noise limit at a distance of 50 feet from the centerline of travel under test procedures established by the Department of the California Highway Patrol.

(b) The Department of Motor Vehicles may accept a dealer's certificate as proof of compliance with this article.

(c) Test procedures for compliance with this article shall be established by the Department of the California Highway Patrol, taking into consideration the test procedures of the Society of Automotive Engineers.

(d) No person shall sell or offer for sale a new motor vehicle, except an off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000), which produces a maximum noise exceeding the applicable noise limit specified in this article, and for which noise emission standards or regulations have not been adopted by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency pursuant to the Noise Control Act of 1972 (P.L. 92-574).

(e) No person shall sell or offer for sale a new motor vehicle, except an off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000), which produces noise that exceeds or in any way violates the noise emission standards or regulations adopted for such a motor vehicle by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency pursuant to the Noise Control Act of 1972 (P.L. 92-574).

(f) As used in this section, the term "register" is equivalent to the term "licensing" as used in Section 6(e)(2) of the Noise Control Act of 1972 (P.L. 92-574).
Basically dealership stuff except for Paragraph (c). I was trying to find where it has the legal noise limit of 95dbA, however couldn't find it. However, what I did find is quite alarming. The legal limit for passenger vehicles (excluding racecars) weighing under 6,000lbs (excluding motorcycles) is 80dbA.

Am I missing something here? All the info I got was off the DMV website and according to the 2004 CVC. Has there been a change that I/we are unaware of?

MCA:
Thanks for your help!
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 03:46 PM   #4
mca
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5447
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Vehicle:
2002 95 Integra GS-R
92 Sentra SE-R, 90 Miata

Default

Quote:
I was trying to find where it has the legal noise limit of 95dbA, however couldn't find it. However, what I did find is quite alarming. The legal limit for passenger vehicles (excluding racecars) weighing under 6,000lbs (excluding motorcycles) is 80dbA.
From the DMV website (VC 27151) Modification of Exhaust Systems

Quote:
27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified.

(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section. Motor vehicle exhaust systems or parts thereof include, but are not limited to, nonoriginal exhaust equipment.

Amended Sec. 10, Ch. 92, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002.
It's important to establish that the allowable sound level is 95dB and the proper test (SAE J1169) is required. I think one of my links shows the specifications of the test. It's all very boring stuff, but is very complicated and essentially impossible for street cops to replicate.

Aaron
mca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 03:56 PM   #5
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Sorry for the ignorance, CVC 27151(b) states the limit of an exhaust. Damn it, I wish I got busted for paragraph (b) instead of (a). I think it would've been a lot easier to fight.
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 04:39 PM   #6
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

It seems to me that Paragraph (a) is in referance to a stock exhaust system that has been modified and that (b) is geared towards aftermarket systems. If you ignore Paragraph (b) of CVC 27151, you will end up w/ an exhaust having to comply with an 80dbA limit.

You're right about me (or anyone else that fights this type of ticket) having to establish the conditions of paragraphy (b). Thanks again for your help and insite.
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 04:51 PM   #7
mca
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5447
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Vehicle:
2002 95 Integra GS-R
92 Sentra SE-R, 90 Miata

Default

I would write the declaration under the assumption that you are defending against paragraph (b). That also gives you lots more material to support your defense. The longer the document, the less likely the officer is to answer.

Aaron
mca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 04:56 PM   #8
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

I can't do it under that assumption seeing as the bastard clearly wrote 27151(A). I'll figure something out as far as how to introduce it as it clearly states the stipulations for compliance to not only that paragraphy, but the entire section itself.
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 06:26 PM   #9
mca
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5447
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Vehicle:
2002 95 Integra GS-R
92 Sentra SE-R, 90 Miata

Default

I think you can safely make that assumptiopn since a maximum noise level is mentioned in (a), then specified in (b). I think a judge would naturally make the connection. 27151 (b) looks like the only place where passenger car noise level standards are mentioned.

Aaron
mca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 07:04 PM   #10
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Once I get all my stuff together, I'd like to have you look it over just to make sure I'm not missing anythin (if it's cool w/ you)
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 08:19 PM   #11
AgentFixer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29230
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Boba Thread Co-Founder
Vehicle:
1972 Buick Skylark
t3h Burgundy B3ast!

Default

This is such a lifesaving post....should be a sticky!!!
AgentFixer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2004, 02:36 AM   #12
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentFixer
This is such a lifesaving post....should be a sticky!!!
Seriously...it should. I know that part of the CVC pretty well; almost like the back of my hand. This is my third time to get busted, but the first to fight it. First time I got busted...I paid cuz I was totally way over the limit. Second time, I wanted to fight it, but was afraid of losing. Now that I have been informed that I can fight it through the mail, I feel confident in beating it since I'm pretty good at written communication and quite thorough at it.
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 05:40 PM   #13
MotorWerkz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56933
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
1995 M3 e36 Coupe
Cosmos Black

Default

Quote:
Note: New law (27150.2 VC) does not require law enforcement to use sound level meters to test for excessive noise. Citation is based on officer's judgment. Cited violators may have testing done at smog referee stations or may be directed by the court to have testing done. Vehicles in violation must be brought into compliance. A fine may also be imposed.
MotorWerkz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 06:14 PM   #14
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

MotorWerkz:

Good find! I didn't even dig that deep. But here's something else.

---------------------------
27150.7. A court may dismiss any action in which a person is prosecuted for operating a vehicle in violation of Section 27150 or 27151 if a certificate of compliance has been issued by a station pursuant to Section 27150.2, or if the defendant had reasonable grounds to believe that the exhaust system was in good working order and had reasonable grounds to believe that the vehicle was not operated in violation of Section 27150 or 27151.

Amended Sec. 8, Ch. 92, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002.
Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 569, Stats. 2002. Effective January 1, 2003.
--------------------------
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 06:21 PM   #15
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

I just finished reading 27150.2 and it doesn't state anywhere that the citation can be issued based on the officer's hearing. But you are right about the testing. You can go do it yourself, or you can be mandated by the court.
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 06:31 PM   #16
MotorWerkz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56933
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
1995 M3 e36 Coupe
Cosmos Black

Default

you can go to this website of CHP:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/streetlegal.html
MotorWerkz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 07:25 PM   #17
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
27150.2. (a) Stations providing referee functions pursuant to Section 44036 of the Health and Safety Code shall provide for the testing of vehicular exhaust systems and the issuance of certificates of compliance only for those vehicles that have received a citation for a violation of Section 27150 or 27151.

(b) A certificate of compliance for a vehicular exhaust system shall be issued pursuant to subdivision (a) if the vehicle complies with Sections 27150 and 27151. Exhaust systems installed on motor vehicles, other than motorcycles, with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 6,000 pounds comply with Sections 27150 and 27151 if they emit no more than 95 dbA when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 May 1998.

(c) An exhaust system certificate of compliance issued pursuant to subdivision (a) shall identify, to the extent possible, the make, model, year, license number, and vehicle identification number of the vehicle tested, and the make and model of the exhaust system installed on the vehicle.

(d) The station shall charge a fee for the exhaust system certificate of compliance issued pursuant to subdivision (a). The fee charged shall be calculated to recover the costs incurred by the Department of Consumer Affairs to implement this section. The fees charged by the station shall be deposited in the Vehicle Inspection and Repair Fund established by Section 44062 of the Health and Safety Code.

(e) Vehicular exhaust systems are exempt from the requirements of Sections 27150 and 27151 if compliance with those sections, or the regulations adopted pursuant thereto, would cause an unreasonable hardship without resulting in a sufficient corresponding benefit with respect to noise level control.

Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 92, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002.
Amended Sec. 3, Ch. 569, Stats. 2002. Effective January 1, 2003.
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 07:30 PM   #18
MotorWerkz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56933
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
1995 M3 e36 Coupe
Cosmos Black

Default

weird, they stated the 27150.2 VC differently in CHP website.
MotorWerkz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 08:46 PM   #19
scrappy doo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36215
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: orange, ca
Vehicle:
2002 impreza outback
dented to hell

Default

does anyone know the fee for the decible test?? probably more than the ticket
scrappy doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 09:00 PM   #20
MotorWerkz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56933
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
1995 M3 e36 Coupe
Cosmos Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by scrappy doo
does anyone know the fee for the decible test?? probably more than the ticket

to make an appointment for decibel test is free of charge, as long as you have the citation with you, the overal cost is $30, and it takes 50 minutes to complete the procedure.

I made an appointment earlier today for next week testing, I was cited for VC 27150(a) and I believe I can get this off citation quickly than some of you who got cited for VC 27151
MotorWerkz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 05:48 AM   #21
MotorWerkz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56933
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
1995 M3 e36 Coupe
Cosmos Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ivbdn
Seriously...it should. I know that part of the CVC pretty well; almost like the back of my hand. This is my third time to get busted, but the first to fight it. First time I got busted...I paid cuz I was totally way over the limit. Second time, I wanted to fight it, but was afraid of losing. Now that I have been informed that I can fight it through the mail, I feel confident in beating it since I'm pretty good at written communication and quite thorough at it.
do you think I should challenge my ticket by mail or in person? I'm not really good in composing a fight mail, I'm also not good in speaking english.

Last edited by MotorWerkz; 03-10-2004 at 06:10 AM.
MotorWerkz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 11:31 AM   #22
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Do it by mail. According to ticketassassin.com, fighting by mail automatically gives you a 30% chance of winning. If you want help with writing up your arguments, I wouldn't mind sharing how I'll be doing mine. But the thing is, I haven't done it yet.
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 02:26 PM   #23
engineerx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42614
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Bullet-Dodging Fwy Los Angeles
Vehicle:
0405 WRX STi/S2000
AspenWhite/Silverstone

Default

Damn! I already purchased the APS 3.5" exhaust rated at about 100 db - freakin loud ...... I may have to change the muffler to a less noisy one.....

here's the SAE J1169 test req in CA
go to the bottom of page

SAE J1169 Noise Test
engineerx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 03:02 PM   #24
ivbdn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2736
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA US
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by engineerx
Damn! I already purchased the APS 3.5" exhaust rated at about 100 db - freakin loud ...... I may have to change the muffler to a less noisy one.....

here's the SAE J1169 test req in CA
go to the bottom of page

SAE J1169 Noise Test
You can just have another resonator added to the piping. That should take care of it.

(ed.)Good find!
ivbdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 03:44 PM   #25
engineerx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42614
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Bullet-Dodging Fwy Los Angeles
Vehicle:
0405 WRX STi/S2000
AspenWhite/Silverstone

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ivbdn
You can just have another resonator added to the piping. That should take care of it.

(ed.)Good find!
Sweet - I'll have to look into adding the resonator - I already got stopped once - No mods yet - the APS stuff hasn't arrived, Cop said "you modified exhaust" - "nope - that's stock" I said .... he let me go - this was near Puente Hills Mall on Azusa - about 3 patrol cars cruising up & down and pulling people over for no reason other than to check for mods & popping hoods open! besterds!!!

So - when you go see the judge you can crossexamine the offending officer and ask him if he's familiar with the VC's corresponding to exhausts & the SAE J1169 test / if he measured your exhaust noise / How many dB's ? / etc .. hehehe .... and cite the VC's
engineerx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FT: Norcal APEXi GT Spec exhaust, looking for Borla Hush or similar boxerFTW Engine/Power/Exhaust 0 01-09-2007 01:39 PM
Anyone have their Brullen dual tip exhaust or Cobb exhaust ticketed by police? V6 Canada Region Forum 25 10-17-2003 07:35 PM
KMD, gruppe-s, GTSpec, & similar headers TurboRex Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 0 06-03-2003 10:58 AM
Major diff & similarities btw auto-x and track lushboy Motorsports 14 11-12-2002 02:58 AM
Got yet another loud exhaust ticket...but... Fido Tri-State Area Forum 8 05-30-2001 08:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.