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Old 01-04-2001, 12:24 AM   #26
Stranger
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I don't have a twin turbo. it's 1 nice looking turbine
And I don't see a reason to go to a twinturbo setup, unless you really need it.
MOTEC? WOW, that this is insane. 'but it's way too complicated for me.


As for a turbo... mine sits where cruse control used to sit, and it has some free room around too now. so it's preaty nice.
I'll try to take some pictures soon.
But I still don't get what are you doing to the drivetrain.

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Old 01-04-2001, 01:01 AM   #27
ImprezaRS2000
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This is kinda off-topic, but to reply to the twin turbo stuff, I'll say what I know about them. The nice thing about twin turbos is that they generally use 2 small turbos so that they can spool up faster and greatly reduce "turbo lag." The total output is most likely similar to a single turbo setup. Hope this helps some way or another...
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Old 01-04-2001, 01:24 AM   #28
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Digital Boy: May I ask how much this kit is costing or if you could tell me how much the other Rally Knight kits are costing? Also do you know what your lag might be with the turbo? I would assume you can adjust the PSI of the turbo from within the car or am I mistaken?

Just asking because I'm hoping to be in the market for a turboed automatic Impreza soon

P.S. sorry if this was covered before...
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Old 01-04-2001, 02:13 AM   #29
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Imp2K, yes, twin turbos can have faster spoolup, but with the existing turbos out there, like Shiv's Vishnu kit, or the earlier Minnam kit, there's about zero lag. Especially if you're not going to go above 14PSI and keep the stock internals, in which case, you'll have excellent off boost response simply because you're running like any other RS. Twin turbo sounds impressive, but on the RS it's a lot of extra work for very little gain over a single turbo.

Andrew,
The bolt on 300HP kit is priced right around $5K. This includes a Haltec E6K ECU, wiring harness, sensors (GM MAP, etcetera), turbo, turbo plumbing, intercooler, injectors, etcetera. A complete turbo system to bolt onto a stock EJ25.

The 450HP kit, which I'm told is also undergoing CARB testing, uses much of the same pieces as the 300HP kit, with the exception of the ECU. The 300HP kit can use the Haltec or Motec, but the 450HP kit requires the Motec. It also uses an engine built by Leading Edge (soon to be subcontracted to a high volume engine builder to bring down production cost) with a very generous safety margin for this power level. The 450HP kit will cost somewhere in the $15K region with ECU, wiring, sensors and Leading Edge supplied engine.

They also warranty their engines against mechanical failure due to the increased power output. I do not speak for Rally Knight or Leading Edge in any binding sense, so don't take this as gospel. I am still working on finding out the exact terms of the warranty, but Leading Edge's warranty will cover their engines against failure of pistons, rods, valves, valvesprings, etcetera, assuming the engine management hasn't been tampered with.
They feel confident enough in the safety margins they've built into the mechanical pieces and engine management that they won't break if you maintain the engine properly and don't screw around with the engine management.

You can also buy the ECU and turbo and bolt them onto the engine of your choice. So if you want to use a block supplied by Cobb Tuning or B Spec or whoever, but want to remain CARB legal, you aren't required to buy their engine. I do not know what the package price for 450HP ECU and turbo only package will cost.
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Old 01-04-2001, 06:35 AM   #30
ColinL
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Quote:
The bolt on 300HP kit is priced right around $5K. This includes a Haltec E6K ECU, wiring harness, sensors (GM MAP, etcetera), turbo, turbo plumbing, intercooler, injectors, etcetera. A complete turbo system to bolt onto a stock EJ25.
Is that your special price or can anyone get that price? Just curious.

Oh wait... about splattering yourself with 450HP and not 300... that's nonsense. 300HP will be more than enough to get into trouble if you allow it to happen. How many accidents have I gotten into in the family 500HP camaro? None. Tickets? None. And I assure you an Impreza out-brakes and out-handles it by a fair margin as it currently sits. Anyway...

I am glad you are enthusiastic about this, and I hope everything turns out well.

[This message has been edited by ColinL (edited January 04, 2001).]
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Old 01-04-2001, 09:46 AM   #31
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I don't want to get involved in any of this but I have always found digital boy to be very cool when answering posts AND asking questions. The guy is just excited.. that's all. I'm SO happy (and jealous) for him. I hope he hunts you all down and smashes you to the ground. I agree that this club is MUCH better than club Si but everyone here is so damn pushy. If everyone would get there collective head out of their a$$ then everything will be ok. I"m VERY excited I'm getting cobb's intake, MRT headers/exhaust and a field SFC hyper R. I can't even imagine how happy he will be. anyway.... digital boy, I hope you have a lot of fun n your quest for speed and excitment. Get it, drive it, go balls out and have fun.. everyone else, just let the man be. If your jealous b/c he is trying something with a diferent company good for him. I'm not claiming I know anything, I don't know jackshi*. But I do know that there is one more impreza owner that is going to be extremely happy and I am extremely happy for him.... wish everyone else was.

good luck,
bret
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Old 01-04-2001, 11:04 AM   #32
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So Digital Boy, whats the projected lag of the 300hp setup?
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Old 01-04-2001, 01:37 PM   #33
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Back to the original message:
DigitalBoy, what are you doing to your drivetrain ?

Thanx
A. aka Stranger
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Old 01-04-2001, 02:42 PM   #34
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I see. Well in that case, I'd definitely get a single turbo. Just need to find the $$...
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Old 01-04-2001, 04:36 PM   #35
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Stranger,

As far as driveline is concerned, to which I define driveline as transmission and rear differential, I *do* have money budgeted for a strengthened transmission. I'm still vacillating between manual and semi-auto. Paul Guard strikes me as being very competent, and has snail mailed me a quite impressive brochure of his Porsche products, and a xerox of a P.O. (Purchase Order) in German from Porsche themselves for some of his gearsets. So I feel confident that when he says he can build a Subaru gearset that will live behind a big HP and torque motor, he's not talking out his a$$. MRT, whom I believe I was mistaken about Rally Knight using their gears, also has a tempting offer with a 2 year unbreakable warranty. If I can break their gears in 2 years or less, they will replace them and take the old gears back for analasys to determine why they broke.

On the semi-auto side, Rally Knight hired Rancho Transmission in Temecula, whom I have heard of in the Baja world (obliquely from friends who are into that kind of racing) to build them a 4EAT that will withstand the high torque their 2.5's crank out in race trim. So far, they've been very successful, only needing fine tuning for the rally cars.
This setup allows the 4EAT to be shifted like a clutchless manual, or it can be left in full auto mode. It also has a user lockable torque convertor to lock the engine solid to the trans, like a manual trans. In fact, the car dies if you lock the TC while it's not moving. And they are also twiddling with the torque biasing to make the car RWD biased, and adjustable, similar to what Subaru did on the STi cars with the torque bias adjusters.

I need to talk to Paul Guard and see if he's definitely commited to running a batch of his new 21MM wide Sube gears or not. He hasn't said definitively that he'll make a run of them, as he needs some commitments from an as yet unspecified number of buyers for gearsets.

MRT has a nice rep, and their gearset specs out really nicely, but what really kills them as a potential for me is their lead time. They need 9-10 weeks from time of order until they actually make the gears, then another week or so for shipment. That would mean I wouldn't see a set of gears until at least May.

Rally Knight can source and supply me with a modded 4EAT in 2 weeks time, once the big rush of last minute Baja race trans orders get done with at Rancho Transmission. The desert racing season is just about to start, so Rancho doesn't have a lot of spare time to work on the rally pieces, since the baja crowd is their core business. But if time was the most critical factor, I'd have to go with a 4EAT. I'll need to try the RK car out to see how it behaves.
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Old 01-04-2001, 04:44 PM   #36
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Andrew,

with the 300HP turbo kit, lag will be minimal to nonexistent, since the engine will still be running it's stock 9.7:1 compression ratio. (I have a 1999 Phase 2 SOHC RS engine that I'm installing into the car)

If the rally cars are indicitave of the performance characteristics of the 450HP street kit, which I'm told by Jon that the street kit is very nearly identical to the rally setup, then lag is, again, minimal to nonexistent, as the rally cars run 9:1 compression with 17PSI of boost, but need 110 (or maybe it's 114, which is what Joe told me) octane race gas.
I can't say 100% for certain, but in my brief test ride with Lon in his rally car prior to the Ramada Express rally, when he pressed on the gas, the car took off without any noticable hesitation. I thought it idled and drove rather docilely when Lon wasn't goosing it to show off the acceleration, or when he wasn't taking steep driveway entrance ramps at 50MPH+ to show off the suspension's durability. Basically, until he put his foot to the floor, it behaved like a regular 2.5 liter Impreza. Minus the whine from the KAAZ limited slip center diff and the BPM gears. That was kind of hard to ignore.
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Old 01-04-2001, 05:01 PM   #37
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Spunky,

Thanks for the supportive words, but just sit down and take a few deep breaths! Relax!

Yes, I can go off if I feel I'm being talked to in a condescending manner, but I have no desire to hunt Imprezer or anyone else down and "smash them to the ground".

In a way, this is a good way to get to the nitty gritty of things in the shortest order. I understand that grad students going for their master's theses and doctorates have to sit before a panel of professors who basically look for the tiniest flaws in their work and try to pick it apart.

I view these "scraps" as more of a scholarly debate on the intricacies of wringing the largest amount of durable horsepower and torque out of a Subaru engine. Yes, Alex and I both have our fair share of egotism, but when I'm pummeled about the head and shoulders with hard facts that contradict my position, I know when to acquiesce and admit my error.

Besides, my hide is so thick, it makes the M1 Abrahm's chobham armor look like a soda can.
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