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Old 11-25-2012, 06:33 PM   #576
bicycle_wreck
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Originally Posted by Schikane View Post
I spoke with Dave over at Redline Oil about a week ago in regards to their 5W-30 and he said that oil would hold up just fine in the turbo subbie engine and I tend to agree with him.
I'm a big fan of their products and I used their 0W-30 in my supercharged Redline that was making a little over 240HP/224TQ for two years and it drove beautifully.
Maybe I'll shoot SOA an e-mail and see what they in regards to both the Redline and Motul.
Thanks for the feedback.
And, yes, 5W-40 conventional is stated as an option for topping off lol.
They will say no to Redline. I e-mailed them about it awhile ago as per Dennis's quasi recommendation, see below. I've been playing by the rules and running Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 for 3K mile OCIs instead. The last two UOA's have looked good. Going to post them once I have the third.

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Hello XXXX XXXX:

Thank you for taking the time to contact Subaru of America again regarding the use of Red Line engine oil in your 2012 WRX.

Samir has not worked for Subaru of America for many years now. As for our recommendations for engine oil, they are detailed in the owner's manual on page 12-5. We recommend engine oil that is API approved and this Red Line engine oil is not API approved.

Thank you, XXXX, for the opportunity to be of service.

Sincerely,

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
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1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783)
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:03 PM   #577
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Based on that email from SOA I should be fine with Eco-Energy then since its API certified
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:43 AM   #578
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bicycle_wreck - Did you refer to the original email by Samir when you sent your email? Or maybe Mergen is just familiar with it. Or maybe he's reading this. Hi John!

Warranty coverage depends on several factors; Your dealer, the district Subaru rep, and SoA's review of what has been submitted to them.

I'm going to go buy some 5W-40 conventional now for replenishment.

-Dennis
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:06 AM   #579
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post

I'm going to go buy some 5W-40 conventional now for replenishment.

-Dennis
I'm with you.

They are really crazy over @ SOA. All of this for that extra 1 to 2 mpg. Not even GM is this bad and even the Ford dealer told us when we bought the wife's turbo'd 4 explorer that any 5W-30 would be fine as long as it was synthetic and we followed the 5K changes @ minimum.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:08 AM   #580
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SoA and SoJ are crazy. Look what they did to the LGT people.
Warranty claims, as already stated are pretty arbitrary, the variances there are wider than the variances in opinions in this thread.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:28 PM   #581
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Hey guys, I picked up an 02 WRX about a month and a half ago and am thinking of switching to T6 5-40 synthetic, the car has 94k on it, I recently did an oil change with 5-30 blend, when my car was in the shop where I work(sears auto) the mechanic said it was about a half quart low( I saw dipstick at a glance and it looked a little down) if that was true it would mean a half quart in 1k miles, and I know Subarus 1qt per 1k miles is fine but from what I've gathered that was a myth formulated by GM when they had a major engine problem.

I'm pretty sure its not burning in the combustion chamber, and am thinking if anything its a turbo seal problem, the change from the dealer didn't burn a drop.

I've heard rumors of horror stories of cars around 100k miles switching to synthetics and having seals leak, but have also heard of them running better. Was hoping someone could shed some light on this.

Thanks
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:52 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by Tavery92 View Post
Hey guys, I picked up an 02 WRX about a month and a half ago and am thinking of switching to T6 5-40 synthetic, the car has 94k on it, I recently did an oil change with 5-30 blend, when my car was in the shop where I work(sears auto) the mechanic said it was about a half quart low( I saw dipstick at a glance and it looked a little down) if that was true it would mean a half quart in 1k miles, and I know Subarus 1qt per 1k miles is fine but from what I've gathered that was a myth formulated by GM when they had a major engine problem.

I'm pretty sure its not burning in the combustion chamber, and am thinking if anything its a turbo seal problem, the change from the dealer didn't burn a drop.

I've heard rumors of horror stories of cars around 100k miles switching to synthetics and having seals leak, but have also heard of them running better. Was hoping someone could shed some light on this.

Thanks
You may get very many different answers to your question. The last few post speak of how different opinions are about motor oil.
Go ahead & use what you want, I believe the arguments for using the T6 are valid, I'm currently running it in my '05 STi. But hey, that's just my opinion.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:30 PM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavery92 View Post
Hey guys, I picked up an 02 WRX about a month and a half ago and am thinking of switching to T6 5-40 synthetic, the car has 94k on it, I recently did an oil change with 5-30 blend, when my car was in the shop where I work(sears auto) the mechanic said it was about a half quart low( I saw dipstick at a glance and it looked a little down) if that was true it would mean a half quart in 1k miles, and I know Subarus 1qt per 1k miles is fine but from what I've gathered that was a myth formulated by GM when they had a major engine problem.

I'm pretty sure its not burning in the combustion chamber, and am thinking if anything its a turbo seal problem, the change from the dealer didn't burn a drop.

I've heard rumors of horror stories of cars around 100k miles switching to synthetics and having seals leak, but have also heard of them running better. Was hoping someone could shed some light on this.

Thanks
What kind of 5-30 blend? Something like Pennzoil Gold or Kendall GT-1 Blend would likely be 5w20 by now, Valvoline MaxLife would probably still be 5w30. The key here is whether the oil is a "high mileage" variety or an ILSAC Resource Conserving variety. For your car, you want the high mileage variety at a minimum, they're a bit thicker and they have seal conditioners to help prevent leaky seals.

Leaky seals due to synthetic is largely a wives tale. It's not the seals which are affected, it's the sludge. It's possible that synthetic will clean out some sludge left by conventional which was plugging a leaky seal. Overall, clean engines are better, leaky seals or not.

How are you sure the oil is not being burned in the combustion chamber? One quart in 2,000 miles is not very much, and would be pretty hard to see smoke from. Lots of turbo Subarus around with half the miles of yours burn just as much oil. Not something to worry about, especially if it's burning resource conserving 5w30 (really 5w20) oil. Switch to the Shell Rotella T6 5w40 synthetic and see what happens to your consumption.

If you suspect the turbo seals, have a buddy follow you while you do a few short (4-5 sec) acceleration bursts which produce full boost. When you let off the gas a puff of white smoke might come out of the tailpipe if the seals are going. Not a foolproof diagnostic method, but cheaper than paying a mechanic.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:46 PM   #584
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Originally Posted by prochucker View Post
You may get very many different answers to your question. The last few post speak of how different opinions are about motor oil.
Go ahead & use what you want, I believe the arguments for using the T6 are valid, I'm currently running it in my '05 STi. But hey, that's just my opinion.
chuck...some of our opinions are WAY-WAY more educated than the wives tales and 'common mans' 'common sense' that pervails, ya know

which is why SOME of us use the t6 and have NO consumption of any sort over 8k mile oci's and have no oil related failures in 200k+ miles of use

now...wonder why that is????
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:59 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
What kind of 5-30 blend? Something like Pennzoil Gold or Kendall GT-1 Blend would likely be 5w20 by now, Valvoline MaxLife would probably still be 5w30. The key here is whether the oil is a "high mileage" variety or an ILSAC Resource Conserving variety. For your car, you want the high mileage variety at a minimum, they're a bit thicker and they have seal conditioners to help prevent leaky seals.

Leaky seals due to synthetic is largely a wives tale. It's not the seals which are affected, it's the sludge. It's possible that synthetic will clean out some sludge left by conventional which was plugging a leaky seal. Overall, clean engines are better, leaky seals or not.

How are you sure the oil is not being burned in the combustion chamber? One quart in 2,000 miles is not very much, and would be pretty hard to see smoke from. Lots of turbo Subarus around with half the miles of yours burn just as much oil. Not something to worry about, especially if it's burning resource conserving 5w30 (really 5w20) oil. Switch to the Shell Rotella T6 5w40 synthetic and see what happens to your consumption.

If you suspect the turbo seals, have a buddy follow you while you do a few short (4-5 sec) acceleration bursts which produce full boost. When you let off the gas a puff of white smoke might come out of the tailpipe if the seals are going. Not a foolproof diagnostic method, but cheaper than paying a mechanic.
It was Valvoline 5-30 Max-life synth blend, as for not being burned in the combustion chamber I changed the plugs about 2 weeks ago, none shown any signs of oil soaking(maybe I'm dead wrong on this being a good check)

I have suspected a leaky turbo seal, I can smell a slight hint of burning oil but its very prominent to the turbo area(however, I noticed gear oil on the DP and that R/F CV was replaced, so it may be that continuing to burn off.

I'm just concerned as to how it can not be a drop down on whatever the dealer I bought the car from used, versus now it being "low" I'm seconding guessing my glance and thinking it may've been in between the two dots, the tech topped it off before I could check it myself.

Anyways I'm leaning towards buying some T6 roll the dice and see what happens and hope for the best, just looking for reassurance that others with turbo Subies have made the switch with higher mileage without issue from leaking seals
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:19 AM   #586
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04 180k and switched to T6 about 5K ago. I replaced some gaskets before the switch that were weeping, but high mileage=leaky seals. Compared to the 5w30 or 5w40 stuff a shop used for most of the car's life I lose alot less.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:24 AM   #587
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Originally Posted by Tavery92 View Post
It was Valvoline 5-30 Max-life synth blend, as for not being burned in the combustion chamber I changed the plugs about 2 weeks ago, none shown any signs of oil soaking(maybe I'm dead wrong on this being a good check)

I have suspected a leaky turbo seal, I can smell a slight hint of burning oil but its very prominent to the turbo area(however, I noticed gear oil on the DP and that R/F CV was replaced, so it may be that continuing to burn off.

I'm just concerned as to how it can not be a drop down on whatever the dealer I bought the car from used, versus now it being "low" I'm seconding guessing my glance and thinking it may've been in between the two dots, the tech topped it off before I could check it myself.

Anyways I'm leaning towards buying some T6 roll the dice and see what happens and hope for the best, just looking for reassurance that others with turbo Subies have made the switch with higher mileage without issue from leaking seals
You'd have to be pretty good at reading plugs to see evidence of such slow oil consumption on them. As to the turbo seals, I won't claim to be an expert on diagnosing them, but it occurs to me that maybe you have a leaky valve cover gasket. The turbo is very close to the passenger side valve cover.

No need to change out the MaxLife early, do a 5k OCI with it and then switch to RT6. As for assurance, I switched my 1996 OBS to MaxLife Synthetic at 75,000 miles. No issues. Like I said, leaky seals with synthetic is mostly a wives tale, but it can happen with a Group IV (PAO) or Group V (Ester) synthetic. A Group III synthetic like MaxLife or RT6 really minimizes the risk. Consumption can still go up if the issue is say sludge clogged leaky valve cover gaskets, but the proper solution to that is new gaskets, not crummy oil.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:25 AM   #588
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chuck...some of our opinions are WAY-WAY more educated than the wives tales and 'common mans' 'common sense' that pervails, ya know

which is why SOME of us use the t6 and have NO consumption of any sort over 8k mile oci's and have no oil related failures in 200k+ miles of use

now...wonder why that is????
Ya know Uncle, I'm not sure.
I am running it as well, but have only recently started. I have noticed a drop in oil usage, even though I now have some coming out of the engine somewhere, in very, very small amounts. I notice it burning off of my turbo after a quick hard run home.
My new concern, and it's not truly that big of a deal is the weight of T6. My car would be better off with a lower weight oil, my pressures with 5W40 are about 35Psi higher than needed and I would benefit from a thinner oil.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:17 PM   #589
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35 psi higher than needed? Do you have some definitive data on what's needed? Or are you just using rules of thumb?

Most of the engine's functional interfaces don't care about pressure, they care about viscosity. Main bearings are the best example, as long as the pump keeps them full of oil, and that oil is of sufficient viscosity, they're happy. Oil pressure won't directly indicate when the hydrodynamic film in a bearing is on the verge of failure.

Jacksonville, FL is pretty warm to be thinking you'd benefit from thin oil.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:21 PM   #590
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
35 psi higher than needed? Do you have some definitive data on what's needed? Or are you just using rules of thumb?

Most of the engine's functional interfaces don't care about pressure, they care about viscosity. Main bearings are the best example, as long as the pump keeps them full of oil, and that oil is of sufficient viscosity, they're happy. Oil pressure won't directly indicate when the hydrodynamic film in a bearing is on the verge of failure.

Jacksonville, FL is pretty warm to be thinking you'd benefit from thin oil.
Using the widely accepted 10Psi per 1K RPM. And the only true connection between pressure and effectiveness, is does that pressure pump enough oil to film the bearing. A thinner oil would flow more, at a given pressure. If your oil pressure with 5W40 is 100+ at 7K RPM, a thinner oil will lower that pressure, but flow more oil across that bearing. Something I read on IWSTI that really got me thinking about it. Oil also cools, directly, the parts it flows onto and off of. Another benefit of flowing more. Anyhow an oil that is just thick enough at operation temperature to get the accepted 10/1000 is the ideal weight. Oil and water temps on modern engines are kept pretty stable. Unless you go where its really cold.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:02 PM   #591
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Ya know Uncle, I'm not sure.
I am running it as well, but have only recently started. I have noticed a drop in oil usage, even though I now have some coming out of the engine somewhere, in very, very small amounts. I notice it burning off of my turbo after a quick hard run home.
My new concern, and it's not truly that big of a deal is the weight of T6. My car would be better off with a lower weight oil, my pressures with 5W40 are about 35Psi higher than needed and I would benefit from a thinner oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prochucker View Post
Using the widely accepted 10Psi per 1K RPM. And the only true connection between pressure and effectiveness, is does that pressure pump enough oil to film the bearing. A thinner oil would flow more, at a given pressure. If your oil pressure with 5W40 is 100+ at 7K RPM, a thinner oil will lower that pressure, but flow more oil across that bearing. Something I read on IWSTI that really got me thinking about it. Oil also cools, directly, the parts it flows onto and off of. Another benefit of flowing more. Anyhow an oil that is just thick enough at operation temperature to get the accepted 10/1000 is the ideal weight. Oil and water temps on modern engines are kept pretty stable. Unless you go where its really cold.



ok chuck.....here it is...you are using faulty logic...sorry...but you are

subarus are DIFFERENT....'widely accepted' in the redneck v8 chebby and fraud...er ford community which is NOT subaru

subarus use a higher than 'usua'l...usual to usa v8 motors.... volume oil pump which throws the old school chebby v8 'common mans common sense', which is usually just faulty logic, out the window

this is quite common here

you have to stop thinking like subarus are the same as other cars and start thinking that they are different and you wont have so many issues and be better off


this is also why using the PROPPER oil filter is so important as well

and things like this 'oil pressure' MYTH are why things are so hard around here for people like me


and we see the results of improper oil and oil pressure here as spun bearings EVERY DAY.....so...throw the old school v8 chebby oil pressure bull**** out the window where it belongs and step into the proper thought process here and dont spin bearings and blow up motors and be happier for it

Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 01-01-2013 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:13 PM   #592
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oh yeah...this is yet another reason to NOT-NOT-NOT use the 11mm oil pumps on these engines unless and until they are built specifically for them and most are NOT

and they have oiling issues and blow up becasue people dont really THINK and do the wrong things thinking it is the RIGHT thing to do and it isnt

but nobody listens until its too late and then they cry rivers and come tell me i was right after all and all that.....again
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:44 PM   #593
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What is the proper thought process? You typed a fair amount about him being wrong, but didn't really provide any education or pointing in any particular direction.

What is different in an engine built for an 11mm oil pump? I'm just curious and haven't looked into it before. I understand if you don't feel like going over it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:09 PM   #594
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I really do understand the oil filter thing, and didn't really think I would change from T6 to get lower oil pressures. But I really don't understand the 11mm oil pump thing. How is pumping more a problem, unless it goes back to the bypassing the filter thing again.

You, you crusty old fart, have to come home & see us sometime. Maybe then I'll stop making weird assumptions off of what I read on the interweb.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:13 PM   #595
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What is the proper thought process? .

YOU need to figure it all out....like i did.

these are not simple uncomplicated things...which is why they ARE issues

nobody wants to really READ anything and LEARN anything the old fashioned way

'just TELL ME...oh why oh WHY cant you just TELL ME??????'

'cuz i can NOT just unzip your head and pour knowledge in....that is why

the head is too small and inabsorbant and the bucket too big and full, usually....and the relationships between all the different variables are not apparent to those who lack the education and experience to properly associate them....THIS is impossible to impart on one in this venue in any sort of effective manner
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:15 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
YOU need to figure it all out....like i did.

these are not simple uncomplicated things...which is why they ARE issues

nobody wants to really READ anything and LEARN anything the old fashioned way

'just TELL ME...oh why oh WHY cant you just TELL ME??????'

'cuz i can NOT just unzip your head and pour knowledge in....that is why

the head is too small and inabsorbant and the bucket too big and full, usually....and the relationships between all the different variables are not apparent to those who lack the education and experience to properly associate them....THIS is impossible to impart on one in this venue in any sort of effective manner
Hence the edited version of my post above.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:19 PM   #597
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Originally Posted by prochucker View Post
I really do understand the oil filter thing, and didn't really think I would change from T6 to get lower oil pressures. But I really don't understand the 11mm oil pump thing. How is pumping more a problem, unless it goes back to the bypassing the filter thing again.

ahhhh...well chuck....what does the 11mm pump do that the smaller one does not???

and why might this become an issue???

that is quite complicated, really....but the stock pump flows PLENTY for all but the most idiotic of individuals who are trying to build a race motor out of a street motor...which NEVER EVER works
which is why so many subaru engines fail and we see guys...local to you..... spending $150k + on them in a futile effort to be all k00 and ****
and doing nothing but blowing them sky high and spending MORE and MORE and MORE on dead horses.....


dont try to make a subaru engine a race engine and you will be far happier in the end......i promise


chuck....i will attempt to 'splain it all a bit better when we next meet...which i very much hope will be here in a week or 3
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:58 PM   #598
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
YOU need to figure it all out....like i did.

these are not simple uncomplicated things...which is why they ARE issues

nobody wants to really READ anything and LEARN anything the old fashioned way

'just TELL ME...oh why oh WHY cant you just TELL ME??????'

'cuz i can NOT just unzip your head and pour knowledge in....that is why

the head is too small and inabsorbant and the bucket too big and full, usually....and the relationships between all the different variables are not apparent to those who lack the education and experience to properly associate them....THIS is impossible to impart on one in this venue in any sort of effective manner
My apologies for daring to ask a question that is too complex for you to provide any kind synopsis of what you believe to be the proper thought process.

Sadly, it appears that you've spent too much time on this forum and feel the desire to include lengthy batches of insults in both your useful and useless posts alike. You could have simply said something like "It's too complex, I don't feel like getting into it" but instead you put a bunch of words in my mouth that are clearly coming from spending lots of time here and becoming frustrated with reading too many posts that you feel are repetitive, uniformed, thoughtless, etc, etc.

Albert Einstein has reportedly said "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother." It's perfectly understandable if you don't want to take the time to impart your immense knowledge, wisdom, and experience on us lazy idiots that have obviously never cracked open a book, used the search function, or even google, but I don't see the need to make each of your posts 25% relevant and 75% bull****.

Just like you don't like duplicate questions because they clutter up the forum, your whining crap clutters up nearly every thread you participate in and almost inevitably starts additional bull**** posts like the one I'm making now. Maybe one day you'll consider how much you're part of the problem and how much you're part of the solution.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:15 PM   #599
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Originally Posted by Evan View Post
My apologies for daring to ask a question that is too complex for you to provide any kind synopsis of what you believe to be the proper thought process.

Sadly, it appears that you've spent too much time on this forum and feel the desire to include lengthy batches of insults in both your useful and useless posts alike. You could have simply said something like "It's too complex, I don't feel like getting into it" but instead you put a bunch of words in my mouth that are clearly coming from spending lots of time here and becoming frustrated with reading too many posts that you feel are repetitive, uniformed, thoughtless, etc, etc.

Albert Einstein has reportedly said "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother." It's perfectly understandable if you don't want to take the time to impart your immense knowledge, wisdom, and experience on us lazy idiots that have obviously never cracked open a book, used the search function, or even google, but I don't see the need to make each of your posts 25% relevant and 75% bull****.

Just like you don't like duplicate questions because they clutter up the forum, your whining crap clutters up nearly every thread you participate in and almost inevitably starts additional bull**** posts like the one I'm making now. Maybe one day you'll consider how much you're part of the problem and how much you're part of the solution.
luvmuffin.....im so tired of 'spalinin things to all the brain dead here it just makes no sense to keep posting the same things over and over

if you want to learn something.....GO ****ING LEARN IT AND LEAVE THE IDIOT QUESTIONS FOR YOUR PROFESSORS AND INSRTUCTORS and stop wanting to be spoon ****ing fed here.

no more ****ing dissertations
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:33 AM   #600
Evan
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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Location: Orange, CA
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99 Miata, 91 Miata turbo

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That post you quote never asked you to explain anything. You missed the point entirely. Obviously, that's my fault for not being clear enough, since the almighty Uncle Scotty noob slayer rarely makes mistakes. I merely pointed out that your ridiculous crap you infuse into a large portion of your posts is detrimental to nasioc, just like the questions, threads and members that you so proudly berate on a constant basis. As I said in my previous post, if you don't want to answer, just shut the **** up instead of insulting everyone you instantly deem deserving of it.

It seems like it's just reflex for you. It's unfortunate that you've gone from answering the same questions over and over to bashing everyone over and over.

By the way, we can all read just fine when you use proper capitalization. Typing in all upper case does not make your case any stronger or clearer, it only makes you more abrasive and nasioc a less pleasant place.

I know my words probably fall on deaf ears, but I've enjoyed nasioc since 2001 and a few less angry posts would be good for everyone. Have a good 2013, it seems like you could use it.
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