Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday September 18, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Electrical & Lighting

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-08-2004, 09:04 PM   #1
BritSti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38057
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hingham, MA
Vehicle:
2010 IS-F
USB

Default Clutch Bypass help needed

Basically, almost finished with my remote start setup (04 STi - Omega Rallystarter), however I'm having issues getting a bypass relay to work right.

So I have setup a relay as described in the "Ultimate Alarm Thread".
85 - Trigger for starter wire coming from remote start
86 - Constant 12v
30 - Clutch wire (highest switch)
87 - Clutch wire (highest switch)

Now, problem is when I depress the clutch, I get this awful buzzing sound from what looks like the clutch switch itself, can't be good.

If I disconnect the 12v constant it goes away. I have verified the clutch wires are tapped correctly, if I loop them together I have a constant bypass.

My 12v tap shows 12v and my starter wire shows 4+v. I am thinking the starter wire (fairly large guage which goes from the remote starter to my oem security starter interrupt) may not be correct.

Now looking at NetZ's specs on Dreamspeed I see the following recommendation :

1) Pin 86 to 2nd Ignition Output off Remote Start relay pack
2) Pin 85 to Blue Status Output off Alarm/Remote Start unit
3) Pin 87 to Ground or Ground side of Clutch Switch
4) Pin 30 to Non-Ground side of Clutch Switch

Now I have a 2nd ignition output which is used, no voltage showing. However, I do not appear to have an equivalent blue status output.

Any suggestions here would be great. Thanks again.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
BritSti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2004, 09:25 PM   #2
brunetmj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8023
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Way-upstate , NY
Vehicle:
2004 2.5 RS

Default

It looks to me that you need a ground on Pin 85. A ground from the remote when it begins to start up. No?
brunetmj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2004, 11:17 PM   #3
BritSti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38057
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hingham, MA
Vehicle:
2010 IS-F
USB

Default

Here is the schematic for the remote starter I am dealing with, what can I use here to ground out the relay while activating the remote start... if it looks like no status output means no ground, then I would need another relay to convert a positive signal (IGN2) to ground?



Last edited by BritSti; 02-09-2004 at 10:08 AM.
BritSti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2004, 12:12 AM   #4
brunetmj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8023
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Way-upstate , NY
Vehicle:
2004 2.5 RS

Default

Yes you will need another relay to change polarity.
Also it would be a good idea to tie in the neutral sense wire into the hood pin switch. This would prevent the car from starting if the car was in gear. That is the only way to safely use this proposed system. If you run the nuetral sensing wire from the ECU then place a diode along it's path with the stripe facing the ECU before tying it in to the hood pin.
brunetmj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2004, 12:15 AM   #5
BritSti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38057
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hingham, MA
Vehicle:
2010 IS-F
USB

Default

Thanks for that update, I have the neutral sense in place which works great, no problems and have the diode in place with the stripe facing the right way...

I'm tempted to just bypass the clutch completely but thats no the best case scenario...

S
BritSti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2004, 05:13 AM   #6
netZ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5743
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: nj/nyc
Vehicle:
2007 Kia Optima
gold brick

Default

From what I can tell of the diagram, there's no Ignition 2 on the Subaru Ignition Harness. The remote start unit's Accessory output should be used instead since it doesn't need to be powered when vehicle is starting (ie. when you manually start a vehicle the accessories are off).

This system doesn't seem to have a dedicated parking light output. You've got a couple of choices:

1) Connect the ACC output to the actual ACC wire off the ignition harness
2) Use the IGN2 output and split it for the parking lights and for a relay to invert it to ground for the clutch bypass. You could send ground to the non-ground side of the clutch wire to disable the starter interlock

Using the ACC output may not work since it may not send 12 volts during remote start. Verify using a multimeter.

Though you are pretty far in your install, for all other members thinking this is an easy install for a manual transmission think again.

Could you post up the other Sections as well?

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by BritSti
Here is the schematic for the remote starter I am dealing with, what can I use here to ground out the relay while activating the remote start... if it looks like know status output means no ground, then I would need another relay to convert a positive signal (IGN2) to ground?


netZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2004, 10:37 AM   #7
BritSti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38057
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hingham, MA
Vehicle:
2010 IS-F
USB

Wink Complete Omega Rallystarter Instructions

OK, Here is the rest of the manual .

Now shouldn't the white dedicated parking light wire off the remote starter pack work for me to activate the clutch bypass, as this should only receive 12 volts when remote starting correct??

Pg1
Page 2-3
Page 4-5
Page 6-7
Page 8-9
Page 10-11

Last edited by BritSti; 02-09-2004 at 02:09 PM.
BritSti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2004, 01:49 PM   #8
netZ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5743
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: nj/nyc
Vehicle:
2007 Kia Optima
gold brick

Default Re: Complete Omega Rallystarter Instructions

no, you don't want to send 12 volts to the clutch switch wire. it needs to see ground. that's why i suggested using the IGN2 12 volt output to a 12 volt relay to either connect the 2 clutch switch wires or just send Ground to the non-ground side of the switch.

Not sure about the Omega unit but typically the ACC outputs of a remote start system come on after the Starter receives 12 volts. This delay may prevent the clutch bypass from working properly.

Please test the ACC output to see it's behavior to see if it comes on during the Starter crank.

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by BritSti
OK, Here is the rest of the manual .

Now for shouldn't the white dedicated parking light wire off the remote starter pack work for me to activated the clutch bypass, as this should only receive 12 volts when remote starting correct??

Pg1
Page 2-3
Page 4-5
Page 6-7
Page 8-9
Page 10-11
netZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2004, 02:09 PM   #9
WRX-1977
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3282
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Granite State
Vehicle:
2006 Mazda 6s GS 5dr
Glacier Silver Metallic

Default

I will be very interested to hear the results of this thread, as I'm also looking to install the Rallystart remote starter in my STi.

- Justin

***RALLYON***
WRX-1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2004, 02:34 PM   #10
BritSti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38057
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hingham, MA
Vehicle:
2010 IS-F
USB

Default OK Clutch bypass diagrams

Based on NetZ's input, if I am reading this right and can actually get my head around this 12 volt electrical stuff here are two bypass which may work..

Will try tonight.

Justin, once I make this work, I'll let you know.



BritSti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2004, 09:38 AM   #11
netZ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5743
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: nj/nyc
Vehicle:
2007 Kia Optima
gold brick

Default Re: OK Clutch bypass diagrams

You just need to send ground to Green/Yellow Pin2/B106 connector. This will unlock the Starter Interlock allowing the starter motor to crank for remote start.

You can either connect Pin1 & Pin2 using the relay method or just send ground to Pin2. Either way is fine. Unfortunately based on the diagrams that you posted there doesn't seem to be a dedicated status output that could be used.

I would definitely use the IGN2 output to a 12 volt relay Pin 86, Ground to Pin 85 & Pin 87. Pin 30 to Pin2 off the clutch switch. When the remote start is initiated, IGN2 will output 12 volts to the relay and then Pin30 will send out ground to the Starter Interlock. Also, double check the relay b/c some owners have mentioned that their Cruise Control doesn't work. It's possible that the relay may have been wired wrong so that it sends Ground to the Clutch Switch all the time or the installer may have wired it incorrectly.

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by BritSti
Based on NetZ's input, if I am reading this right and can actually get my head around this 12 volt electrical stuff here are two bypass which may work..

Will try tonight.

Justin, once I make this work, I'll let you know.

netZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2004, 04:34 PM   #12
BritSti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38057
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hingham, MA
Vehicle:
2010 IS-F
USB

Smile Success at last.

Well, day 3 of this install has bought success for the most part.

NetZ is right, there is no status output which could be used on the Omega Rallystarter. I did decide to use a relay with the following setup:

Pin 30 - Ground
Pin 85 - Starter Wire off remote pack
Pin 86- Ground
Pin 87 - Non-Ground side of clutch

IGN1, IGN2 both provide 12 volts positive all the time while the remote start is on and when the car is started normally, using either would result in a permanent bypass while the car is running as far as I can tell.

The current setup works great and bypasses the clutch when the remote start is initiated and the car started.

HOWEVER...... this also bypasses the clutch when starting the car with the key, as the same starter wire passes positive voltage when using the key, which makes sense.

I do have the neutral sense working, which is good, I did try to tie the parking brake (light green wire) into the clutch bypass relay.

This didn't work, it seems my parking brake provides enough of a ground (whether up or down) that the clutch bypass relay still has the 2 grounds needed.

So, overall, it integrates with the OEM alarm very well, however the Omega Rallystarter seems to limit your options on a manual transmission (Status ouput, parking brake line in etc etc). I did have to use another relay to convert the door lock pulse into a ground to trigger the remote start activation. So 2 relays later, the Omega Rallystarter is not plug and play for WRX's or STi's.

Any thoughts on the best way to use the ground signal of the parking brake (while engaged) as I would like to have two points of failure, the neutral sense and then a parking brake check before this thing starts.

Last edited by BritSti; 02-10-2004 at 04:42 PM.
BritSti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2004, 05:20 PM   #13
netZ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5743
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: nj/nyc
Vehicle:
2007 Kia Optima
gold brick

Default Re: Success at last.

You can always split the IGN2 or ACC into 2 relays to isolate them from the appropriate circuit so that it won't bypass your Clutch all the time.

this one is easy...

12 volt relay
Ign2 or Acc which ever isn't tapped to the Ignition Harness to Pin 86
Pin 85 to ebrake wire
Pin 87a to true ground
Pin 30 to Hood Pin Input

You should install a quenching diode across Pin 86 & Pin 85. This will prevent any feedback to the ebrake circuit when the voltage drops between the coils. Cathode/Ring side facing Pin 86, Anode side facing Pin 30.

When you attempt to remote start with the ebrake engaged everything is fine. Once you disengage the ebrake the hood pin input will receive ground which will shutdown the remote start.

If you prefer to send 12 volts to the brake input then you can change Pin 87a to 5 amp 12volts and Pin 30 to brake light input. Using the ground is probably the preferred method.

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by BritSti
Well, day 3 of this install has bought success for the most part.

NetZ is right, there is no status output which could be used on the Omega Rallystarter. I did decide to use a relay with the following setup:

Pin 30 - Ground
Pin 85 - Starter Wire off remote pack
Pin 86- Ground
Pin 87 - Non-Ground side of clutch

IGN1, IGN2 both provide 12 volts positive all the time while the remote start is on and when the car is started normally, using either would result in a permanent bypass while the car is running as far as I can tell.

The current setup works great and bypasses the clutch when the remote start is initiated and the car started.

HOWEVER...... this also bypasses the clutch when starting the car with the key, as the same starter wire passes positive voltage when using the key, which makes sense.

I do have the neutral sense working, which is good, I did try to tie the parking brake (light green wire) into the clutch bypass relay.

This didn't work, it seems my parking brake provides enough of a ground (whether up or down) that the clutch bypass relay still has the 2 grounds needed.

So, overall, it integrates with the OEM alarm very well, however the Omega Rallystarter seems to limit your options on a manual transmission (Status ouput, parking brake line in etc etc). I did have to use another relay to convert the door lock pulse into a ground to trigger the remote start activation. So 2 relays later, the Omega Rallystarter is not plug and play for WRX's or STi's.

Any thoughts on the best way to use the ground signal of the parking brake (while engaged) as I would like to have two points of failure, the neutral sense and then a parking brake check before this thing starts.
netZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2004, 05:41 PM   #14
netZ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5743
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: nj/nyc
Vehicle:
2007 Kia Optima
gold brick

Default

Brit,

Not to jack your thread but for all other owners who are looking to install a standalone remote start system and want it to seamlessly integrate with their current subaru security upgrade they should definitely check out DEI's Valet 561T.

The 561T has additional features such as dedicated parking light output, true ground status output, rear defogger output, neutral safety check for ebrake check, and more.

The 561T can be had for $70, a turbo timer harness is about $20 and some other crimps/tape/wire etc... Do a search for online vendors that carry the 561T.

If anyone is interested, I can post info this weekend on how to install the 561T.

disclaimer: i don't sell alarms, i only provide technical information for free!

netZ
netZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2004, 11:12 PM   #15
kinger
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 49328
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Iowa
Vehicle:
2004 WRB/Gold STI

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by netZ
Brit,

Not to jack your thread but for all other owners who are looking to install a standalone remote start system and want it to seamlessly integrate with their current subaru security upgrade they should definitely check out DEI's Valet 561T.

The 561T has additional features such as dedicated parking light output, true ground status output, rear defogger output, neutral safety check for ebrake check, and more.

The 561T can be had for $70, a turbo timer harness is about $20 and some other crimps/tape/wire etc... Do a search for online vendors that carry the 561T.

If anyone is interested, I can post info this weekend on how to install the 561T.

disclaimer: i don't sell alarms, i only provide technical information for free!

netZ
What is the range of the current keyless entry system on the STi?
kinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 10:19 PM   #16
70stang
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 156046
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hyde Park NY
Vehicle:
1998 impreza wagon
Black!

Default

I have one of these rallystarter kits with the retrofit kit. Do you know anyone interested in buying one? kit rs-405

darin
70stang is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Needed -- after clutch job, clutch goes to the floor Danny Boy Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 13 10-08-2008 07:36 PM
HELP HELP HELP Need help diagnosing a clutch problem.... redoktober_99 Tri-State Area Forum 9 02-06-2007 10:28 PM
Clutch Install Help Needed wrxxer Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 3 03-10-2004 06:22 PM
Help, need a new clutch, what else do I need?? xenonk Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 0 09-21-2003 11:41 PM
I need a clutch, I need a clutch local, I need a clutch ASAP!!! BADWRX Bay Area Impreza Club Forum -- BAIC 9 08-24-2002 02:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.