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Old 12-31-2000, 09:28 AM   #1
superg
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Post WRX vs. chipped A4Q: I'm on the fence

Having long awaited a true rally car for the street, I am looking forward to the WRX. If it performs well enough, I plan to replace my 98 A4 quattro. But, latest rumors of $26.5K have me wondering.
- WRX could have a handling edge, though A4 sport package with 17" is very good. My quattro with Torsen can be readily held in a tail out drift. Yet, I have been very impressed with the tossability of the 2.5RS.
- WRX 0-60, whether 6.1 or 5.9, is a bit quicker than my Garrett chipped A4, which must be somewhere in the mid to high 6's. But in gear times for the chipped A4 are much faster:
EVO magazine 215 HP UK model WRX
4th gear 60-80 7.9 sec
3rd 60-80 4.9 sec
My chipped A4 4th gear 4.8 sec
3rd 4.2 sec

So which car will have more midrange acceleration out of the corners?

Factor in much higher quality interior, seat heaters, fold-down rear seat, and cleaner styling of my A4.

Any other quattro drivers on the fence?
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Old 12-31-2000, 09:37 AM   #2
skibaru
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Question

Welcome to the board.

If Subaru prices the WRX at $26.5K, it will be in direct competition for sales with the Audi A4.

I'm looking at a A4-1.8TQ and wondering what the torque curve is like on this car. Is there Turbo lag? What is the power/weight ratio like? Is this car a dog stock, or does it need help from a larger Turbo or chipping?
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Old 12-31-2000, 10:03 AM   #3
Youngun
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Funny, I told someone that i just bought my Impreza and he gloated to me that his mom has a great A4. Bah.
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Old 12-31-2000, 11:59 AM   #4
superg
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The stock 1.8t motor has a completely horizontal torque curve from something like 1750 to 4700 or so. Turbo lag in the stock engine is virtually nil. Low and midrange torque is excellent, though its only 155 ft-lb (higher in the 2000-01 cars with 170 hp.)With a chip the flat portion of the curve (which in stock form is limited by electronic boost control) becomes a broad hump, with peak torque of 230 ft-lb or so depending on the chip. Initial accleration on throttle is same as stock, then the boost surges and there is a kick in the pants. Feels more laggy than stock, but who can complain about the incredible decreases in interval times!

CFV
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Old 12-31-2000, 03:41 PM   #5
tmat3
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Good question! I'm looking to buy an A4 1.8 or BMW 325ix. I can learn a lot from this web site!
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Old 01-01-2001, 12:33 AM   #6
skibaru
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Cool

Thanks, good info. I've also been looking at used S4s. I found one recently for $33K (Nagaro Blue, 15K miles) which is only $6K more than a WRX if they sell it for $26.5K.

I've been waiting for the new WRX like everyone else, but to put it nicely, I find the new styling unappealing. So I am now looking at Audi.

My only concern with the 1.8T is the reliability of chipping a small displacement engine. What has your experience been? A lot of posts on this board have slammed Audi for reliability, especially the electrical system.
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Old 01-01-2001, 12:46 AM   #7
Damon
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get da S4. twin turbo power
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Old 01-01-2001, 01:38 AM   #8
KooshDogg
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ive heard that the 1.8t motor runs INCREDIBLY hot past stock boost pressure, dont remember how much, but at 230hp and above..

btw, considering the new A4 generation is going to be out soon, id hold off on buying either an A4 or used S4 until its out, whether or not you buy it used you'd get a better deal once its at the end of its run

also, i say fogeddabout da 325, although the A4 is not as luxurious its a MUCH better deal than the 3-series in terms of equipment, besides that the 2.5 is woefully underpowered, its essentially a german legacy GT-L, which as it is, is also a disappointingly weak yet surprisingly expensive car in the states

besides that, the a4 has better power potential as well (if you're thinkin E46 engine mods, most will now revolve around the new 3.0)
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Old 01-01-2001, 02:03 AM   #9
Kostamojen
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I drove an Audi A4 1.8T... Granted, it was chipped, but the car was unbelievably boring and soft...

And the 325 can be chipped as well.

The Audi's "Luxury" is poor IMO compaired to the 3-series. Handling is definatly worse, as well as comfort... (Not to mention the back seats... A4's are HORRID! Worse than the Impreza!)

Just my 2 cents...

[This message has been edited by Kostamojen (edited January 01, 2001).]
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Old 01-01-2001, 08:58 AM   #10
matt7184
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Not a bad deal for the S4! For a few grand more Id get that over the WRX.
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Old 01-01-2001, 10:35 AM   #11
Screaming2.5
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I've been considering the same options, the WRX, the A4Q or the 328ix. I've driven the A4 with the 2.8 6cyl and wasn't all that impressed. It needs some serious spension/sway bar work. It plows like no bodys business. I have also had some experience with the 1.8T engine in a VW, but they are all the same thing so I'm not real concerned with the difference in cars. The chipped 1.8T is like the standard 1.8T's evil twin brother on crack. It runs sweet and as long as the revs are higher the only time the turbo kicks hard is at standing starts. However, I question the life of the chipped engine and a turbo timer is a MUST! After a few hard laps the turbo glows colors of red that would shame hell. All in all I would say that the resale of the A4 is going to be much higher in the long run simple because of the Audi name. I love my RS, but it is not a luxury car. Drive a WRX and A4 off the lot at the same time and I'll bet you loose some serious $$$ on the WRX... That's just my 0.02 cents...
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Old 01-01-2001, 02:32 PM   #12
RA
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If it were me, I would take an older A4 quattro with 1.8T and mod it.
With a chip, you can get 200+hp and if you change the turbo, you can get much more boost.

The audi has a much much nicer interior/exterior and the suspension can be easily changed as well.
The resale value (since it is used), will be better than a brand new wrx (since car prices decrease a lot in the first few years).

The S4 is even wilder, if you can find a decently priced car.

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Old 01-01-2001, 05:09 PM   #13
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Post

WRX vs A4 1.8Tq?
Stock 217 hp vs modded 180hp?
Warranty vs a grey area?

I gave up on my 1.8T A4 quattro. With just a chip, it was f-a-s-t. I loved that car- would run with V8s, and not embarass me on the track vs M3s and 911s.

I gave up on the Audi, 14 years of ownership of Audis and I went with reliability of the Subaru.

And the S4? Bad trannys, bad turbos, really sucky brakes.

My point? The Audis are not cars you want to have to pay for maintenance. Buy a 100k warranty if you want to keep it for a while.

My website covers some of the crap I had to deal with, but if you want more from the horse's mouth- pm or email.
http://home.earthlink.net/~palmerj/

[This message has been edited by JayP (edited January 01, 2001).]
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Old 01-01-2001, 07:45 PM   #14
skibaru
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Cool

Yeah, you just can't beat Subaru for reliablity. I guess I'm in a dilema, I need whatever I buy to last at least 10 years. The Audi is a nicer package for luxury and looks but the Subaru kicks butt for performance and reliability. Too bad it has a face only a mother could love or it would be a no-brainer. If the price really is $26.5K it will probably be the Audi for me.

Here's the link to the Audi S4. The price is now $32,999 on autotrader.com.
http://home.cfl.rr.com/kpalmblad/
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Old 01-01-2001, 08:05 PM   #15
Dolphin Overton
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The A4's build quality is unbeatable in any price range. It is very very refined. Maybe too refined sometimes. The A4 will need new shocks and springs immediately but the WRX will probably not. Stay away from the dark side (BMW- bowel movement on wheels) S4= very good
...tough decision... I wish I had to make it
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Old 01-01-2001, 10:53 PM   #16
glenstiles
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Post

Wait for the WRX, and test drive both. Different missions for each car. Different approaches. The Audi is more luxury oriented, and can be made to handle well and they can be quite fast with a chip. But its still oriented towards luxury. There are a lot of bone stock Audis out there that can be purchased for a reasonable price, since depreciation has taken its toll on the first few years. Nice cars, especially if you value the Audi 'image.'
The WRX is first and foremost a performance car. It won't coddle you. It's designed to go fast. Period. That's fine if thats what you are looking for. It's based on an economy car platform, so it won't have the same prestige with the general public...But stock it'll probably leave a chipped and tuned A4 in the dust.
Also, for the most part, Subarus are more reliable than VW/Audi products. If that matters for you.

Glen
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Old 01-02-2001, 02:34 AM   #17
Kostamojen
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Post

Also Note: We keep hearing that the WRX's seats are damned comfortable... (I'm talking about the ones we are getting, not the STi ones in Japan/Europe)
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Old 01-02-2001, 03:14 AM   #18
IsraelGT
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Have a Nice Day?

You guys amaze me, to even compare a A4 1.8T,
is being stupid,
the WRX is compared to the likes of the new M3 and Vette Z06 (yes I'm talking about the 215hp) check out the latest "CAR" and you compare it to the A4?!
I own a GT and yesterday drove the new WRX, this car makes you feel like Richard Burns, it steers and turns like nothing I have ever driven (and I drove the NSX, old Vette...)!
now with a prodrive kit (2500$ in Israel, probably less in the U.S) 250hp and 36Kg-m the car would also crush anything in the straight.

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Old 01-02-2001, 03:27 AM   #19
Kostamojen
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Unhappy

Dont forget, we are getting a slightly striped down version...
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Old 01-02-2001, 06:05 AM   #20
IsraelGT
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Unhappy

No, we are getting the slower version (215hp), you guys are getting the 227hp,
I'm telling you I'm going to change my Impreza GT (old Turbo) for this and I'm not even considering the A4, which is a family car not a sports car!
if you want a straight line car get a "funny" car with nitro, or for that matter why buy A4, go get a Neon and install a Viper engine,
if you want a capbale car in the twisties with the option to also go fast in the straights then go for the WRX!
got to tell you the car was also silent, pretty comfortable (for a sports car), well equipped (cliamte control, bucket seats), and very well built better than my Impreza.
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Old 01-02-2001, 11:10 AM   #21
matt7184
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IsraelGT, but doesnt ours weigh more from safety parts like the front bumper (like in the RS).
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Old 01-02-2001, 11:25 AM   #22
ANZAC_1915
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> Also Note: We keep hearing that the WRX's seats are damned comfortable... (I'm talking about the ones we are getting, not the STi ones in Japan/Europe)

I can confirm the seats are really good. Much, much better than I expected (and I was very concerned, I thought we had been ripped off).

Imagine an RS seat but deeper side bolsters on back and cushion. Very supportive and good for (ahem) larger frame people like me.

I could never quite fit "in" the old WRX/STi seats.

Glenn
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Old 01-02-2001, 12:01 PM   #23
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A4's weigh more, by a couple of hundred pounds if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 01-02-2001, 02:24 PM   #24
MarbleTurtle
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... you need to spend even more on a car that is more expensive than the RS to get it to outrun the RS... hmmmm...
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Old 01-02-2001, 03:16 PM   #25
adam99rs
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I need to stand up to teh audi bashers!!!!!

Someone commecnted ont eh S4, so I had to chime in:

Bad brakes; um, are you kidding? Have you seen the test results....just a foot longer than an M5. the S4 brakes are great, even on track days.

Bad turbos: again, huh? a few people blew them up yes....various reasons. I bet there will be several Impreza owners with bad turbos as well....uncontrollable and inevitable. anotehr component=anotehr component to go wrong.

Bad trannies: a bit sloppy, but not bad at all. add the UUC and it is very nice to drive. The Sube trannies ain't nothing to write home about either. Even the . WRX ones we will be getitng.

Thesea re really vastly different cars. I think alot depends on your age, your goals with the car in tems of modding, and what your after overall. the sube doens't have the prestige of the Audi, and deservedly so. The Sube is more fun to drive though, hands down. I love my S4 to death, and after nearly a year, still love it. It is a drivers car, but in a much different sense than the Subaru.

If it's a matter of your A4 vs. the WRX, go WRX. if it's the WRX vs. the S4, I would go with teh S4 personally, but my reasons are unique to me.....since I slready own the Sube.
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