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Old 02-21-2004, 04:26 PM   #1
sflint50
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Default Advice on engine choice

I have a 1997 OBS that I'm wanting to build a turbo motor for. I've found an EJ22 motor from a 92 Legacy Turbo with 84K miles on it. The guy wants $500 for it without the turbo and says that the car ran and drove great before the engine was removed.

As this will be my first "build" my questions are:

Is this the closed deck motor that I've been hearing so much about?

Is the early 90's EJ22 the best to build for both high HP and reliability?

What are the telltale items that I should look for on the actual motor so junk yard guys don't try to pull the wool over my eyes just because I'm a woman.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 02-22-2004, 04:08 AM   #2
MJU1983
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Default Re: Advice on engine choice

Quote:
Originally posted by sflint50
I have a 1997 OBS that I'm wanting to build a turbo motor for. I've found an EJ22 motor from a 92 Legacy Turbo with 84K miles on it. The guy wants $500 for it without the turbo and says that the car ran and drove great before the engine was removed.

As this will be my first "build" my questions are:

Is this the closed deck motor that I've been hearing so much about?

Is the early 90's EJ22 the best to build for both high HP and reliability?

What are the telltale items that I should look for on the actual motor so junk yard guys don't try to pull the wool over my eyes just because I'm a woman.

Thanks in advance for any help.
1991-1994 turbo legacys used the fully closed deck 2.2 block... It is the same 'block' as the 22B impreza. Its just a 4 bolt motor.

EJ22T shortblocks own all. Thats the truth.

HTH

-Mike
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Old 02-22-2004, 12:04 PM   #3
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...light=ej22+oil

This thread should get you started on a search for 2.2 info.
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Old 02-28-2004, 05:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJU1983
1991-1994 turbo legacys used the fully closed deck 2.2 block... It is the same 'block' as the 22B impreza. Its just a 4 bolt motor.
That's not true, the 22B used a different block.

Quote:
EJ22T shortblocks own all. Thats the truth.
That is true however.
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Old 02-28-2004, 11:19 PM   #5
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It is true. The EJ22G from US turbo legacyand 22B block are the same. Attached items are not.
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Old 02-29-2004, 12:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
It is true. The EJ22G from US turbo legacyand 22B block are the same. Attached items are not.
Mmm, ciper. The 22B block is not the same. It doesn't have oil squirters for one thing. It's supposedly a bored STI V4 type R EJ20G.

Now while I would normally take your word about Subaru engines (as you're one of the more knowledgable people when it comes to them) a guy that has access to the SOA techs that work on the only street legal 22B in the united states and works for SOA states that it is a fact that it is different. So on this one I'll have to go along with him.

I actually had the pleasure of seeing this 22B in person, along with the ESX WRX drag car, at last years East Coast Subaru Shootout. OMG it is sooo pimp. I would seriously give up my left nut to have it. I also got to meet Dennis (who is the guy mentioned above and was with SOA at the shootout) and see his sweet, modded XT-T.
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Old 03-01-2004, 12:03 AM   #7
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soa also says only 12 turbo legs were sold in 92. Not that I'm trying to say you are wrong or anything like that I'm just saying that SOA doesn't have reliable information.
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Old 03-01-2004, 02:29 AM   #8
MJU1983
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I wouldnt trust anything SOA says.
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Old 03-01-2004, 02:41 AM   #9
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Either way its the same block... dissplacment, stroke.... so on all the same. One just might not have oil squiters.
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Old 03-01-2004, 10:10 PM   #10
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Dammit fat, its not bored anything

Its a later revision of the EJ22 turbo we had in america. I tried to imply that the block alone was the same, oil squirters are additional.
Dont give me that much credit, I dont own one so its all heresay. However I have seen many pictures of the engine removed from vehicles in different states and saw the similaritys, including the EJ22 stamp next to the PS pump.
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Old 03-04-2004, 10:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by THAWA
soa also says only 12 turbo legs were sold in 92. Not that I'm trying to say you are wrong or anything like that I'm just saying that SOA doesn't have reliable information.
I would agree that I would not trust anything SOA says but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying a guy at SOA that knows the guy who owns the only legal 22B in the states, also at SOA, says that it's not an EJ22G. This is not info from the SOA PR department.


Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
Dammit fat, its not bored anything


Who's fat? I assume you're talking to me.

Quote:
Its a later revision of the EJ22 turbo we had in america. I tried to imply that the block alone was the same, oil squirters are additional.
Dont give me that much credit, I dont own one so its all heresay. However I have seen many pictures of the engine removed from vehicles in different states and saw the similaritys, including the EJ22 stamp next to the PS pump.
I too have seen that they have EJ22 stamped on the 22B's block but that doesn't make it an EJ22G.

Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, it did happen once before a few years back.
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Old 03-04-2004, 10:40 PM   #12
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So what if its an EJ22H?

We will probably never know, very few of us have even seen images of the engine let alone been near onein real life.

All I know is that the block is stamped EJ22. Meaning it was created initially as that displacement, not modified after production for the car.
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Old 03-07-2004, 11:19 PM   #13
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blah,blah blah...
We went through this with Dennis back in January:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=479779
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Old 03-08-2004, 11:42 PM   #14
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To summarize that thread:

22b engine is based off legacy turbo block. All external/internal items not in consideration.
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Old 03-09-2004, 01:13 AM   #15
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Old 03-09-2004, 10:04 PM   #16
Dennis ex24
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the 22b and legacy turbo engine blocks are not the same and in fact are 2 different part numbers, but keep telling yourselves it is if it makes you guys feel better...no need to give the guy a hard time over it.

matt, you have a PM.

Last edited by Dennis ex24; 03-10-2004 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 03-09-2004, 11:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dennis ex24
the 22b and legacy turbo engine blocks are not the same and in fact are 2 different part numbers, but keep telling yourselves it is if it makes you guys feel better...no need to give the guy a hard time over it.

ill see if i can get the numbers again and post them here soon for proof...
That would be awesome. It has never been my intent to proove you wrong, but just to find out the true answer to the on-going debate/myth about this...
I have a Legacy turbo block in peices my garage right now, so I can provide all of the numbers stamped onto it except one set right above the crank, which no doubt will be the most important ones with my luck.
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:24 PM   #18
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Dennis ex24: You frustate me greatly. Your argument is weak.

Part numbers have nothing to do with it. For example a 90 legacy wagon with abs front right spring and 90 legacy wagon without abs front right spring have exactly the same height and rating yet they have two part numbers.

They are the same block. What do you have against a USDM Turbo Legacy?

"if it makes you guys feel better...no need to give the guy a hard time over it."

We are trying to make sure ACCURATE information is posted on the board. Nothing else.
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Old 03-12-2004, 07:14 AM   #19
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Some one should head over to www.22b.com or www.scoobynet.co.uk and ask for pics of the block...
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Old 03-18-2004, 07:32 PM   #20
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The 22B site's tech section is incorrect.

Pictures of the EJ22 stamp on the 22b block will be available soon on legacycentral showing that it IS NOT a 2.0L engine which is later bored out.

edit: second page of this thread http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=15652

If you would like to correct this misinformation please visit http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=15662
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Old 03-18-2004, 10:52 PM   #21
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[quote]Originally posted by ciper
Pictures of the EJ22 stamp on the 22b block will be available soon on legacycentral showing that it IS NOT a 2.0L engine which is later bored out.

QUOTE]
I have spoken to Dennis in private, and he never claimed that it was a bored EJ20, that was Legacy92ej22t that put out that crap about a bored v4 STi. All Dennis claimed was that the Legacy turbo block and the 22B block were not the same block. At this point, I am tending to agree with this. I do agree with your assertion in that Legacy Central thread that the USDM EJ22T may have served as the inspiration and basis for the 22B block. But since they removed the oil squirters, I am going to guess that they recast the mold of the EJ22 before they made the 22B's...

BTW, Dennis has told me that he will try and get some of the other casting numbers of the block from the 22B the next time he gets to see it (There is only one in America, and Dennis does in fact work for SOA...) We'll figure this out yet.
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:18 PM   #22
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From my understanding of how this works it would have been easy to remove the oil squirters from the block, then create 22b specific blocks. My experience comes from a sculpter buddy and the metal shops he works with.

Just like the changes to later 2.2NA engines, a 1990 legacy and a 2001 impreza with 2.2 are the same block even if they aren't the same part number or external appearance.

Meaning the 22b is still using later revision of the legacy turbo block. Later doesnt necessarily mean better either, in fact why wouldnt using a legacy turbo block be considered an upgrade to a real 22B?
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:27 PM   #23
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[quote]Originally posted by Matt Monson
Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
Pictures of the EJ22 stamp on the 22b block will be available soon on legacycentral showing that it IS NOT a 2.0L engine which is later bored out.

QUOTE]
I have spoken to Dennis in private, and he never claimed that it was a bored EJ20, that was Legacy92ej22t that put out that crap about a bored v4 STi. All Dennis claimed was that the Legacy turbo block and the 22B block were not the same block. At this point, I am tending to agree with this. I do agree with your assertion in that Legacy Central thread that the USDM EJ22T may have served as the inspiration and basis for the 22B block. But since they removed the oil squirters, I am going to guess that they recast the mold of the EJ22 before they made the 22B's...

BTW, Dennis has told me that he will try and get some of the other casting numbers of the block from the 22B the next time he gets to see it (There is only one in America, and Dennis does in fact work for SOA...) We'll figure this out yet.
Ya, about the only 22b in the usa... http://www.granturismo-rentals.com/subimp22b.htm

Who wants to meet up in texas? We can get a shop around there pull the motor, they wont know they will think we are driving it, and settle this.



I dont know about easy but you can add and remove oil squiters with out a whole lot of pain.
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Old 03-19-2004, 01:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Monson
[b]
I have spoken to Dennis in private, and he never claimed that it was a bored EJ20,
This is from the above link that you posted about talking to Dennis in January:

Quote:
Originally posted by Dennis ex24
sorry dude, i dont check NASIOC forums everyday.

anyway, as i understand it the 22B block is a variation of the EJ20G - bored and stroked...not the underrated USDM EJ22T.

and youre right, no oil squirters - isnt that crazy?
Hmmm....Gee, isn't that strange?


Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Monson that was Legacy92ej22t that put out that crap about a bored v4 STi. All Dennis claimed was that the Legacy turbo block and the 22B block were not the same block.
Dude, before you go slandering my name at least get the facts straight. That wasn't what he said back in January. This is also a responce to Dennis's above post in the same thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by 2.5GT

You're right the engine in the 22b was a bored (I'm not sure if stroke changed, but it might) out STi V4 Type R 2.0l engine. It retained the same heads and turbo as the v4 type R, IIRC.

Markedly different from the USDM 2.2L turbo engine in terms of build process, but when all is said and done, the nt result is a 2.2L engine with very similar attributes (I'm hazarding a guess that the bore, stroke, and subsequent rod-to-stroke ratio is the same as well). Like you said, all ej-series engines were originally derived from the 1.8L engine anyways . . .

So the "technical name' for the 22b was the STi v4 Type R 22b. Try saying that five times fast
As you can see I was only quoting what was said by other's and not "putting out crap". I have no control over wheather or not people are going to change their stories when people challange them. All I was trying to say is that Dennis had said the 22b was a bored variant of the EJ20G (which he did say) and I guess I got 2.5GT's mention of the STI v4 type R confused with what Dennis said. I was trusting what Dennis had to say as being the most reliable since he was the only person in the conversations that actually has access to a 22b. It seems the information is getting a little inconsistant though so.....
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Old 03-19-2004, 01:57 AM   #25
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wow...all that discussion and no one answered the original question
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