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Old 08-21-2000, 06:11 PM   #1
NickSTi
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Question Questions about subies and autoX. AutoXer post.

OKay after my first autox and being a person who likes to compete (any sport with a ball and I will kick some arse!) I would like to know how the subies fare in an autoX
(1) I know the impreza fares quite well in GS
(2) I know the impreza fares quite well in STS

How do auto subies fare in autox?
I have a turbo. Do any other turbo subies fare in the autoX.

I am thinking about selling my car by the way. Sad but true. On the good side (not a shameless plug) I have loads of stuff to do to it but when I am done, I will sell it to an i-clubber for cheaper than I normally would. For what? If I say I would get flamed but maybe it has something to do with an Audi
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Old 08-21-2000, 06:29 PM   #2
KC
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I would suggest putting your car with a decent suspension, r-compound tires and the Turbo into the new Street Mod class (SM) which is for Street legal, modified cars that are pressurized (Mitsu Eclipse) or have different engines or driveline Components than stock (IE: Civic DX with an ITR Engine), or are Street Legal, Modified 8-Bangers.

SM was a way to have these cars come into SCCA and not get trounced on by the Highly prepped and tuned and non-street legal "Mod" cars.

Now if you know of any auto-xes where they DON'T use SCCA Classifications, then go for it. The BMW CCA is one such auto-x group.

Our BMW CCA only uses the Pax, but my class in the last event consisted of 1 Vette, 1 Subie (mine), 2 AWD Talon Turbos, 1 Pontiac Sunfire, 1 Porsche 911, 1 Turbo'd Miata, 1 Saturn, and 1 RX-7 (2nd Gen). (I can't remember the others), all on R-Compound Tires. Good Mix, eh?

With the Pax, I know I finished in the top 3 (results aren't posted) and I only have a 20mm Rear Sway and the R Compounds.

The car is great with race rubber. I just wish I had more power, mmmm 2002 (The Deuce, El Duce, MY02).

One other thing, SM does allow R-Compound Tires. If you don't have them, and depending on the driver, you'll probably in the upper 30%.

I don't know how well other Subie turbos fare in the Auto-X but the DSM's bretheren do very well.

--KC
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Old 08-21-2000, 07:26 PM   #3
ASNG
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NickSTi,
A turbo will help, but to win at an autoX you need traction and suspension, end of story!

- R-compound rubber
- Springs, struts, sway-bars, strut-tower braces
- Turbo

That is in order of biggest help to lowest help, and roughly in order of least to most expensive.

Other than that Subies do quite well. The AWD puts down a lot of traction coming out of turns, but AWD also causes more understeer when powering through a turn. That is where suspension will help!

...remember, under power in a turn AWD understeers before it oversteers, and in very tight turns...such as autoX...there usually isn't enough room to turn an understeer into a good oversteer situation...

However, that is one thing a turbo may be able to help you with...being able to get throttle oversteer, vs. the "lift throttle" or braking oversteer you get with the stock RS. See unless there is enough power to break the rear loose, the AWD will heavily understeer under power until a throttle lift and/or break tap, which will then get the rear loose. You probably need about 220+ HP to get a decent "power" oversteer, depending on the surface.

I hope this helps!

ASNG



[This message has been edited by ASNG (edited August 21, 2000).]
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Old 08-21-2000, 07:42 PM   #4
NickSTi
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hmmm no one addressed the auto issue? MPREZYA tries to convince me he beats manuals but I am skeptical (not of his story).

Subie Gal? umm not MPREZYA, bueller?
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Old 08-22-2000, 04:54 AM   #5
SteveS
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I run in SM, I'm far from being a great driver, yet I think I'm still competitive. My main "problem" is that I'm running on street tires and not R compound tires, which is, IMO, making a big difference. SM has a pretty crappy PAX, so if you're worried about your corrected time, then SM is not for you.

An auto tranny? Don't know...
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Old 08-22-2000, 07:06 AM   #6
NickSTi
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sounds encouraging still. Maybe I will keep the turbo. maybe
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Old 08-23-2000, 02:29 PM   #7
Molez93
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Smile

I too am running Street Mod in a heavily upgraded RS. The turbo is only putting out ~4 psi, but all the suspension work and R-compound tires keep me competitive.
At the local level, I (and my car when others are driving it) have been placing 2nd or 3rd pretty consistently behind a 3000GT VR-4 piloted by a good driver.
When stacked-up against national level competition, I/we were basically in the middle of the pack. My problems boil down to low boost and slightly better than average auto-x driving skill, but Kent Rafferty(Supra), Ian McFedridge(sp?)(Eclipse), and Dennis Grant(Eclipse) beat me/my car pretty handily at the Harrisburg Pro.

Honestly, the SM crowd has been lots of fun to race with. Having a car that doesn't suck for the class does help, but our attitude about being in it for the fun is better than much of what I see in SCCA solo classes other than CP. Whatever, that's another post...

-Scott, 98RS; SM #104
BTW- No idea on the auto question specific to the RS. However, few automatics are ever competitive in solo. EXCEPTION: Roger Johnson and his C4 Corvette, #99.
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Old 08-23-2000, 04:16 PM   #8
NickSTi
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Thumbs up

Thanks Scott, that was the answer I was looking for. You know what this means!!!! I am selling my car, Turbo and ALL! I see how competitve the guys are in STS and GS and I would sure like to try that out instead.
A turbo is fun but you never really get to use that monsterous power.
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Old 08-23-2000, 07:57 PM   #9
Eric
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I think a turbo 2.5L Impreza has loads of potential in SM. With a car setup with a good suspension and making enough power to propel it to a low 13 high 12, throw in some generous weight losses from removing everything that can be removed and swapping to aluminum parts, it would rock. Toss in a quaife and clutch, a good seat and smaller 15in hoosier rubber and possible alter the gearing to get about 60 out of second gear, with an increased RPM limiter too. It could be deadly. Now my SM idea is a highrevving NA build up from PAECO that could be even better than a turbo. Take a 98 DOHC engine and do a 9K RPM build up, over 300 HP. Sure it says race only and you would have to rebuild it, but SM is the place you could tear it up in a car like that. Cost aside of course, and somehow dodgeing the registerable for the street clause or whatever.

Eric
Silver 99 RS

[This message has been edited by Eric (edited August 23, 2000).]
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Old 08-23-2000, 08:12 PM   #10
Midwayman
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Wait Wait! R compound tires as in 205/55 ZR 16 will put me in a different class? Thats weak.
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Old 08-24-2000, 05:43 AM   #11
Molez93
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Thumbs up

Eric,
I agree for the most part. The way to take SM *will* be to build a car with lots of torque all through a high HP power band on a light car that handles. Easy right?
On the Street Mod board there's been lots of talk for a while how this car or that car will take the class. Whatever that car is, I'm pretty sure we haven't seen it yet. Well, at least not paired with a stud driver.

I think the funny thing about SM is going to be that anyone who has the funds to build an amazingly competitive car, can do the same in another class and probably has already. I'm REAL curious to see if SM develops into anything other than a collection of people like me: folks building the car they want to drive and then racing it in SM because it fits in 'well' given the rules.

[BTW- Good luck at Nationals! I know it's a while away, but I don't spend much time on the board anymore ]
-Scott
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Old 08-24-2000, 06:46 AM   #12
ColinL
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Eric, I agree with your naturally aspirated SM idea. I think Cobb Tuning is going to be a smarter choice for parts and support though.

Nick-- your car will competitive in SM if you are as a driver. Initially you won't be but you will learn. There's nothing wrong with a turbo automatic, you just need to get really good at driving two footed. Actually in Tampa there's a _fast_ CP Firebird that's a turbocharged and automatic. Todd Farris, I can give you his email address if you want.
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Old 08-24-2000, 08:38 AM   #13
SteveS
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Again, I think the RS can absolutely be competitive in SM. It's just that I'm not the driver to do that -- I need R compound tires, and, more importantly, better driving skills.

FWIW, here's top 3 results from an 8/13 autox in SM:

Class: STREET MODIFIED ---------------------------------------------------------
1t 88/SM SEAN CHRISTIE, PHILA EDDYSTONE, PA
> 36.052 <
90 HONDA CIVIC SI

2t 87/SM IAN MCFETRIDGE, PHILA YARDLEY, PA
> 36.530 <
97 MITSUBISHI ECLIPLSE

3t 01/SM STEVE SHIMP, PHILA ELMER, NJ
> 37.267 <
98 SUBARU IMPREZA


So I was pretty far behind, but I placed 3rd out of 7 cars. As far as PAX, I ended up 32 out of 70. The problem is NOT my car, it's me.

Side note: I don't know why the Sean Christie is running his Civic in SM. As far as I could tell his car was NA. He's leading Philly SM though, which just may be why he's in SM. He's a damn good driver, too.
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Old 08-24-2000, 09:22 AM   #14
ColinL
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If I had to guess it would be that the civic has an Integra motor in it.

(never having met the guy before or seen his car, but knowing what a SM civic should be.)
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