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Old 11-24-2000, 12:19 AM   #1
Jeff
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Post Anyone know if the new WRX is a true "Drivers" car?

I know absolutely nothing about Subaru and their cars,but I'm getting my car soon and I was exploring my options. It seems that the WRX is VERY fast and handles very well, but is it a drivers car? I have narrowed my choices down to the Integra Type R and the WRX. The Type R I can't do much to it without sacrificing reliability, but the WRX already has a stock turbo. I know how much potential turbos have,and I know i can easily get this thing from 227 to 280+. Stock to stock the WRX should smoke the Type R, but what about on curvy roads?

Basically what I want to know is, does the car drive like a BMW or does it drive like a Mercedes/Lexus?

Thanks in Advance.
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Old 11-24-2000, 12:43 AM   #2
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It drives like a WRX

Nothing else comes close... (out-performes BMW and Lexus/Mercades w/ ease)

And aparently, the 2002 WRX actually rides alot more "easy" I guess you would say... without compromising performance.

We will find out soon enough...
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Old 11-24-2000, 01:23 AM   #3
couldnthinkaone
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jeff,
my MY00 rs is muck faster through the twisties than my buddies 98 type r...sube is stock and r has adjustable coilovers and stuff...
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Old 11-24-2000, 05:53 AM   #4
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Your friend must not know how to drive then, because Type R's are always killing RS's in autocross(with good drivers that is).

Anyway, the WRX has become a cult car throughout the rest of the world where its been sold for the past 7 years. Not because it rides nice, or looks good, or is luxurious, simply because its fast and very agile. Its been named one of the best handling cars in the world by many European magazines. Its only become so popular because it performs great. The previous one was defidently a true drivers car. The new one has even better handling, but now they've added a much more civil feel to it. They haven't dumbed down the steering though. From a review I saw of it they said it is very responsive, and for those that aren't enthusiasts, it could be considered twitchy(thats how responsive it is). The chassis has been improved 250% over the previous Impreza. The suspension has remained basically the same with slight improvement. I know I can't wait to get one, and at one point I was considering a Type R as well.
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Old 11-24-2000, 06:08 AM   #5
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i'll tell ya, in my MY00, i was kinda racing my buddy with a 98 integra GS, and i defenitlely crushed him on the on-ramp to the highway... of course, he got me with the top end... in the time he got to 130, i was at only 120 (i had 2 others in the car with me, that's it ). but handling will blow away many other cars on the road...and with the turbo, it'll smoke most anything, too
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Old 11-24-2000, 06:33 AM   #6
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But the GS is one of the lower end integra's. It doesn't even have sport suspension like the GSR, and the Type R is far superior to the GSR. If I remember correctly the Type R and RS are in the same SCCA autocross class. The Type R's defidently have the advantage in autocross, they usually win.
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Old 11-24-2000, 07:09 AM   #7
couldnthinkaone
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ok...let me clarify...on an auto-x i'm sure he would be faster, but on a road course, or any road w/FAST corners, i can hold them at a higher rate of speed than him.
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Old 11-24-2000, 07:09 AM   #8
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yeah, i know it's low end... but i didn't know about the suspension thing. i just thought it lacked Vtec. oh well...
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Old 11-24-2000, 07:39 AM   #9
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Type R will be better when the pavement is smooth and unrippled. Once things move closer to 'real world' conditions the RS (or for next year the WRX) will have more of an advantage. As with most things in this world, it really comes down to the driver.

At one event, I was able to beat a slick-shod Type R (I was on street tires) on day one. The next day we changed the course a little, the weather changed a lot and he beat me. Difference in times was around 0.08 seconds on day one and around 0.5 on day two.

If I was looking only to race on pavement, the Type R would be my choice. However, if I need to carry my wife, daughter, dogs, and luggage on a 1,000 mile trip - the WRX will always win. Plus, its a fast car in the dirt, mud, and muck. Its more confident when the weather turns sour and is willing to reward you on those less then perfectly paved mountain roads.

Both cars will reward a competent driver, but the WRX does it rain or shine with less noise, more comfort, and in many cases - more speed.

[This message has been edited by Tim K. (edited November 24, 2000).]
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Old 11-24-2000, 08:18 AM   #10
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Go test drive an RS for now and that will answer your question, I've driven a Type R before and I own a RS, And I know for sure I can out handle a Type R with my RS. The WRX will handle even better than the RS. The choice is clear.
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Old 11-24-2000, 08:26 AM   #11
Rich L
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To answer you question:
YES the WRX is a drivers car!
The Type-R is more expensive too. Personaly I'd stick with the AWD and torquie engine... You can always invest in some performance mods if you want to go faster. Just look at some of the crazy power some guys on this board have achieved.
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Old 11-24-2000, 08:32 AM   #12
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These links were posted on another thread, but are probably worth posting here.


http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~kgr...ew_impreza.mpg
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~kgr...%20impreza.mpg
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~kgr...ew_impreza.mpg

These are from European drivers who are typically far more particular about their performance cars than North Americans. They obviously like it. Someone also mentioned that the fella in the first link is a BTCC Race Car driver so if he says its a great car, I think calling it a drivers car would be a safe bet.

Cheers,
MB
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Old 11-24-2000, 08:36 AM   #13
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Jeff,

All of the European (British) magazines that have reviewed the new WRX state that it is one of the greatest handling 4 doors ever.

"The car may re-write the book on performance saloon handling" -- Autocar 10/25.

The reviews also state that the car is fun to drive. So to answer your final question, the car does not drive like BMW or MB. It drives better.
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Old 11-24-2000, 11:36 AM   #14
Jeff
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Thanks a lot for posting guys. I just wanted to say that i'm pretty sure stock to stock the WRX would definately beat the Type R in any kind of race. The WRX has more power and I think it's lighter. Besides I really hate naturally aspirated cars, I am planning to put about 4-5 G's of mods in this bitch, make it a ****ing monster. I don't really care about looks, if i did I would still go with the WRX the ITR looks fugly.

I can't wait to put in my Blowoff valve(I really hope my brothers HKS will work) I LOVE THAT "PSSSSHHHHHT" before he changes gears.


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Old 11-24-2000, 11:58 AM   #15
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Food for thought.... I'm pretty sure that the WRX is heavier than the TypeR... a LOT heavier...

Think about it this way, the chassis of the WRX is slighter larger than the RS (correct me if I'm wrong), and the RS has the same curb weight as a 325i...

The RS is a heavy, heavy, car if you don't strip the interior...

Despite being a proud Subaru owner (hehe)... I would have to say that it would be a VERY tight race... Even though the ITR has what... 195 horses and the WRX has 230 (approx)... those figures don't mean jack.

Remember that all Subaru's put HP to 4 wheels, not 2... and the HP to the wheels on the 165 Horsepower RS is 99 horses!

But then again, if you are going to put 5G's to your car, then the WRX has WAY more potential... The ITR is pretty much maxed out of it's potential... unless you blow like 15G on a Stage 5 Turbo like someone did here in Vancouver... hehe...

Stock vs Stock... it'd be a close one...

My $.02
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Old 11-24-2000, 12:29 PM   #16
Jeff
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Holy ****, I just checked the curb weight of the new WRX its 3000 lbs! for some reason I thought that it was around 2000!! The Type R is like 2300.. I know this is kind of lame, but I have checked the 0-60 times of the WRX and Type R. THe fastest I have seen for 0-60 of the manual WRX is 5.4(it says the 227 hp one), but I'm pretty sure its around 5.9-6.0 . The fastest I have ever seen for the Type R is 6.2 , so it really depends on the drivers. The 1/4 mile times are supposedly 14.1(fastest I've seen) for WRX and 14.7 for the Type R.

This is what I'm planning to do( I don't really want to change the turbo, but if anyone can convince me that it wouldn't hurt reliability and it would be safer than increasing the PSi of the stock turbo then tell me)

I/H/E. Some Hosing, Fish valve, colder plugs, and 8mm wire so I can increase PSI of turbo.

I'm not sure where this would get me, but maybe around 270/280
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Old 11-24-2000, 02:29 PM   #17
RabidRex
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Just to set the record straight:

New WRX: Just under 3000lbs
Integra Type R: 2639lbs
BMW 325i: ~3400lbs

The 300-400lbs weight difference between the Type R and WRX is more than offset by the extra 30hp the WRX will have.

I'm looking forward to the release of actual US specifications in January!
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Old 11-24-2000, 02:31 PM   #18
inzomniak
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That's interesting, I had an argument on the BMW board recently and they said that their 325i is just as heavy as our RS... SO....
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Old 11-24-2000, 04:30 PM   #19
RabidRex
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Wink

Hey Inzomniak, I finally got a chance to look these up. The official SOA weight for the RS (sedan) is 2875lbs. The official BMW weight for the 325i is 3241lbs.

Net difference: 366 lbs.

BMW owners always seem to overestimate the stats/abilities of their cars.
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Old 11-24-2000, 07:54 PM   #20
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I think the weight factor not come into play at all...for one....like someone said just above...the extra horsepower will offset the weight difference with some extra...and not only the horsepower..but the torque is waaaaaaaaaaay more than an ITR...its no competition...on a quarter mile strip...with equal driver...both stock...the WRX will take the ITR off the line with a HUGE lead and the ITR will never catch up...no way in hell is that ITR gonna even come close...I say WRX by well over a car length
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Old 11-24-2000, 08:01 PM   #21
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Inzomniak,

RabidRex is absolutely correct. A 325 is definatelt heavier than an RS let alone the new WRX. IIRC, the only Bimmer produced in the last 10 years that weighed less than 3000lbs was the 318ti (around 2700 I think).

BMW are good cars but they are heavy. Their market segment expects quite a bit of luxury to go with that sportiness. Actually, considering how heavy they are, they handle extremely well. Only requirement is to have a second mortgage to pay for BMW dealer maintenance.
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Old 11-24-2000, 11:15 PM   #22
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One correct slide sideways on a dirt road at 50mph...and you'll agree it's a drivers car.
Colorado's mountain trails have never been so much fun .

Gary
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Old 11-25-2000, 12:21 AM   #23
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Well to start with DO NOT EVER use a stupid WHP dyno as "proof" of anything except in realting modifications on THE SAME CAR. The 98 WHP that SCC got for a stock 2.5RS is liek saying my SHO makes 3.8K Rat power. It has no realtion to anything real. Try running the 2.5RS agains any other car that dynos 98Hp on say a dynojet. The other car will get its ass handed to it.

Then Go on to the fact that the Impreza turbo has won may awards all across the globe, not for its power (210-215HP) but for its real world handling. The WRX and other varients of the turbocharged impreza are hands down some of the best cars for the money.

I think the Type-R will become history once the WRX arrives here, as the WRX will offer more performance, luxury, and real world capiblity for the same price.
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Old 11-25-2000, 12:58 AM   #24
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Lightbulb

Last time I checked, IT-R's were $26k+ MSRP... (Saw several at a dealer one day)

If the WRX is anything less than $25k, its a steal! (Im thinking around $23.5k base with the US toned down version we are seeing)
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Old 11-25-2000, 02:26 AM   #25
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Just a couple corrections for things I've read in this whole thread:

The Type R MSR is something like 24k, not 26k. Some dealers do mark them up, but many people have gotten them at MSRP.

The BMW Z3 roadster and coupe also weigh under 3000lbs(they are around 2800-2900 depending on model).

Don't count on the WRX's MSRP being much below $25k. Even with the slightly toned down version(although we are probably getting more power than Europe) consider the market right now. The UK WRX MSRP is very close the the UK Type R's MSRP. I don't remember the type R's exact MSRP, but I think its like $24,800 or so. The current sports compact car market is getting more expensive for the top of the line models(around 24-25k). There is no way the MSRP on the WRX is going to be around 23.5k. Thats about where I'd predict the invoice price will be. I'd guess MSRP will be very close to 25k and the price of the Type R.
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