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Old 05-30-2000, 06:16 AM   #1
FatChanceTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 274
Join Date: Sep 1999
Post Detroit Region Auto-X, stay away from all seasons!

The iclub was well represented at the Memorial day auto-x yesterday at Lawrence Tech. Four of us (myself, Marius, redbaron, and Fred Zaplitny) raced in STS, Paully raced his dark green Impreza Brighton in E Stock.

Redbaron had hands down the fastest RS time, posting a 46.6XX on his third run (due to 232 entrants we only got three runs instead of four). He was really the only one of us who was competitive (near top 3) in our class which featured a couple of really fast neons and a Miata (I think) who were consistently running in the 45.XXX's I believe.

Redbaron had his Z rated Comp T/A's (the summer tread pattern) inflated to right around 40 PSI (on 17" rims) and he still cooked his front sidewalls. It was ugly, but he drove it well. Marius' Kumhos seemed to work pretty well, he didnt report much sliding but blamed his unsmooth driving style (although he still beat me! on two of three runs)

I ran my whiteline bar at 22mm with STi V5 suspension and BFG Comp T/A VR4 (all season) tires, and had plenty of oversteer available, but unfortunately no tire grip at all. It was lots of fun (and noise) sliding sideways out of every turn, but not very fast at all. I was running about 33psi in the rear, 35 in front but no grip at all, and nowhere near the rollover that redbaron was getting on his. weird. That's what the 360 treadwear rating and lack of driving skill gets you I suppose.

All in all it was a beautiful day though, one more run would have been nice, but they said in the future they are going to limit participation to the first 200 entrants, so sign up early for the June 25th event you guys!

Ryan
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Old 05-30-2000, 07:00 AM   #2
JP Money
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Member#: 909
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Auburn Hills, MI, USA
Talking

Oh Man! That sounds like it was a lot of fun! I wish i could have been there. I was driving back from Toronto yesterday, and I got the speedo up to just past the "m" of "MPH". So thats about 125mph, right?
How was the track? Different from last time (Frank can answer this one)? Did redbaron use his wonderful JUICE bottle in the trunk? Or did his trunk monkey just Blow REALLY HARD into the engine to make it go that fast!!!
Did you guys get sunburnt?

-JP

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Old 05-30-2000, 08:09 AM   #3
FatChanceTi
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Member#: 274
Join Date: Sep 1999
Post

The track was very fun, Frank said a lot more open than the last one a few weeks ago. It was pure 2nd gear. A couple of really fun off camber turns and dips. I dropped to 1st a few time on my first run and had an awful time, ran the second two runs (as did the other guys I think) in 2nd gear, sliding merrily through the corners.

redbaron removed the nitrous tank, and he didn't even need it to spank us! That would have put him in another class anyways Im guessing.

sunburn? yes. mostly from milling around the cars between runs Im guessing. I had a hat on the rest of the time, and I got to work in the shade.

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Old 05-30-2000, 08:52 AM   #4
Eric
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Member#: 48
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Impretza 2.5
silver

Post

Ok, Im guessing here but.

Ryan, your oversteer situation helped the tirewear. Redbaron understeered alot more, causing the fronts to take alot more abuse. IMHO the tire pressures were still way low. I run the Kumho's at about 45f and 42.5r. I was experiencing a fair amount of rollover still in the front so I added more neg camber. That solved the problem up front. I am getting very even wear now. The back on my car still needs more neg camber, but it is not as bad with rollover as the front of course. Max out the camber up front if you are still stock, get as much as you can. If you are in STS, add the camber plates or slot the top of the strut towers. Go to atleast -2 but -2.5 deg. camber up front seems ideal. If you can, get above -1.5 to maybe -1.8 deg. in the back. There is no stock camber adjuster in the back, so you will have to slot or add plates (not stock class legal).

You are definitly going in the right direction with the car. It is an understeering pig. Do everything you can to make the car rotate. Try toe out in the rear, and in the front.

FYI, Im also driving daily with these extreme settings and I am not experiencing horrible wear, albeit worse than with the straight up settings that come stock. Also, the toe out will wear the tires faster than neg camber will.

And if you have adjustable struts, run them full stiff in the rear, and play with the settings in the front. As illogical as it may seem, run the fronts full soft, them move them up a notch at a time, and notice how it brings understeer back into the car. If you want more info, please email me, I want to help, really.

And please dont drive like a maniac on the street with these settings, Id hate to hear about another RS that lost it in a curve and becomes scrap. These settings are meant to be testing in a controlled, safe environment, like autocross.

Eric
Silver 99 RS
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Old 05-30-2000, 09:05 AM   #5
Fred Zaplitny
Gone... But not forgotten
 
Member#: 92
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: East Detroit, Michigan
Vehicle:
1999 2.5RS Coupe
Blueish Kind of

Thumbs up

It was a great time. I certainly found out one important thing, I need a lot more practice! I was on stock tires with about 35 psi in front and 30 in rear. I rolled the sidewalls big time. The 18mm sway bar is my only other handling mod. My times aren't worth discussing, but I did have fun. Did anyone see the final posings of the times? Was I dead last in STS? I don't really care since this was my first autoX and it definitely won't be my last. There's another autoX at Lawrence this coming Sunday, anyone want to go? I'm going to try to make it. So far I have no other plans.
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Old 05-30-2000, 09:27 AM   #6
Fred Zaplitny
Gone... But not forgotten
 
Member#: 92
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: East Detroit, Michigan
Vehicle:
1999 2.5RS Coupe
Blueish Kind of

Post

Scratch that about this coming Sunday (I think). It appears that it's not an open event, it's part of the DCSCC champ series. I don't know if it's open to anybody, but I might go check it out anyway.
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Old 05-30-2000, 09:31 AM   #7
Strepto
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Member#: 252
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: San Antonio, TX
Vehicle:
2001 Arctic White
Camaro SS #1800

Post

I had my own experience with all-seasons at an autoX this past weekend. I couldn't get any grip out of 'em what so ever. According to spectators I was smoking them around even the slowest of corners. I have AGX's with Ground Control springs and a 20mm bar for suspension mods, and it's just too much for the poor little Toyo Proxes FZ4's
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Old 05-30-2000, 09:45 AM   #8
FatChanceTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 274
Join Date: Sep 1999
Post

Eric,

thanks for the tips.

I'm not going to go extreme with camber or toe on my car, since its a high mileage daily driver (70+ per day). It would be fun to be a bit more competitive, which I think I can do with a bit more practice and some decent tyres.

your comments on the front tire wear due to understeer make sense. the other cars (stock springs and struts) were most likely rolling and pushing, mine was just staying flat and sliding. I definately didn't have any understeer problems at all though, and even though I wasn't fast, oversteering sideways through those turns was an absolute hoot. I wish I could watch a few of my runs on video.
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Old 05-30-2000, 10:06 AM   #9
Eric
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Impretza 2.5
silver

Post

Video huh, here is a cheap in car cam mount.

Go out and get a cheap tripod, 30 bucks at Ritz should do it. Now, two ways. Mount a tie down to one of the center back seat seatbelt mounts, strap the tripod down tight in the back seat, standing or sort of leaning forward. Try some different configurations.
OR, take the actual camera mount off the top of the tripod. Keep the mechanism that clamps to the pole of the tripod. Go out to the local hardware store and buy a dowel that fits nice and snug in the clamp. Drill holes in the dowel for the passenger side seats head rest to go thru. Add some bungee cords for strength and voila, instant camera mount. And alot cheaper that those 100 plus suction cup mounts.

Or, give a bystander 5 bucks and your video camera and say, dont miss the X Impreza, please. Dont forget to say please, that way they will take the lens cover off while filming. Or better yet, get one of the RS owners to do it, I bet they would do it for free, if you filmed them too!

Eric
Silver 99 RS
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Old 05-30-2000, 11:43 AM   #10
Marius
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: MI
Unhappy

Talk about suck ass. I have the Kumhos, so traction was no problem, I have all kinds of mods(latest S-AFC), so power was no problem either. My driving just plain sucked. No clean turnin, plowing into turns, and with only 3 runs you can't try anything.
Need drivers ed, big time. Any suggestions that don't make me a poor man?
Redbaron smoked our asses big time, his tires too...
What does a Neon have to do in STS?(Winner)
Fred, that VAG drivers school is on a freakin
' friday =^(
Marius
99 RS blue
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Old 05-30-2000, 01:29 PM   #11
Eric
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Impretza 2.5
silver

Post

Marius, I didnt mean to insinuate that you were a novice, just that it was advice usually given to novices. I know nothing of your skills, so please do think that Im trying act all big headed or something. Im really just trying to make every scooby as fast as it can be. I would never want to look like a conceited RS owner, there are enough of those already

BTW, good job winning by two seconds! That is an eternity on an autocross course! Everyone has good and bad days. Thats just the way it is, somtimes its all in your head. Just like when you think you can do something and you can or you think you cant do something and you talk yourself out of even trying. Autocross is as much of a game of mental preparation as it is actually driving. If your mind is not on driving, your hands and feet are not doing all that they can.

Again, good luck at your next event! And really, the farther you look ahead, the more prepared for the next turn you are. Use the force Luke, and steer with your peripherial (sp?) vision. (hehe)

Eric
Silver 99 RS
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Old 05-30-2000, 05:36 PM   #12
Fred Zaplitny
Gone... But not forgotten
 
Member#: 92
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: East Detroit, Michigan
Vehicle:
1999 2.5RS Coupe
Blueish Kind of

Post

Frank,
That sucks that the VAG school is on a Friday. I think I'll still go if it's not full. Looks like I have to burn another vacation day. I'll let you know if it's any good.

Fred
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Old 05-31-2000, 12:46 AM   #13
Eric
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Charlotte Hall, Maryland, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Impretza 2.5
silver

Post

Marius-there is only one way for you to get faster. I wasnt there so again Im guessing. Slow down. If you are over cooking turns, you are braking too late or not enough. Think tight lines. Put your tires right over the edge of the cone. But most of all, its better to lose a tenth at the start of a turn then 5 tenths in the turn. And that is a relatively low estimate of time lost in the turn. Also, every foot you are off a slalom cone can equal up to a tenth for each cone. People dont win events in slaloms but you sure can loose one real easy. So, once again the best 'novice' advice for going fast is, slow down.

Oh, here are some outrageous numbers. Take a 180 degree turn around. If your car can sustain 1G, that is all it is ever going to sustain. To take that 180 in a wide line (I forget the exact foot amount) you would have to pull 4G to match the time it takes for the tight line (again sorry I forgot the foot amount) to get thru the 180. Watch Indy qualifing, they all hug the inside line. It is fastest. The reason for the 'roadracing line' is to maximize your momentum. There is far less acceleration available in 3rd and 4th gears (road course) than in 1st and 2nd gears (autocross). In reality, its very hard to start braking where you think you should be accelerating and turning tight where you think think a wide line would be 'faster'. The reality is you may be going faster, but it will take longer.

I hope this helps! Good luck at your next event and remember, never look back, always look ahead.

Eric
Silver 99 RS
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Old 05-31-2000, 12:57 AM   #14
Marius
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 38
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: MI
Wink

i did take it slower on the last run, but too slow I guess. 3runs are just not enough.
Am I still novice after 5 auto-xes?
Stylewise I guess I am. But I won the previous autocross with a 2 second margin, so I'm probably not consistent enough...
Marius
99 RS blue
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