Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday August 23, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
New England Subaru Impreza Club
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Chapters > New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2004, 08:24 PM   #1
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default 2.2L vs. RS revisted

Ok, for those of you who responded to my first post, sorry about the rerun, but I have some new questions. I'm looking at a stock '97L w/ about 50k. Looks like it's in excellent condition, hopefully I'll take it out for a test drive soon. I'd like to try to finagle it from the owner for about 5k.

Anyway, I'm thinking really hard about trying to buy this L over an RS. But, I have a few questions to see if it would worth it. 1st off, were all MY97s the 2.2 liter engines? I think so, but I don't know for sure. 2ndly, is it possible to fit rear discs onto a L? I really don't want to run drums in back. Also, I've got a pretty good idea how much it will cost me to pick up some small mods like exhaust, intake, etc, but how easy is it to wring extra power out of the 2.2? Also, how much would it run me to install a comparable sus to an RS? And finally, how much would anyone guess it would cost me to get some ext. RS bits like hood, wing, maybe front bumper & fogs, and have those painted? One more thing - this car doesn't have a tach!!! How much would it be to get one of those installed?

Thanks again, and sorry for any redundency.....

James
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 08:47 PM   #2
Sean
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 518
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trunkmonkey Racing
Vehicle:
762 PGT Impreza L,
Silverado EXT, Yaris

Default

An Impreza is an Impreza is an Impreza. From MY97 on up, everything will fit any Impreza using common sense. You can't stick 2.5 headers on a 2.2. You can't stick a round peg into a square hole. But all chassis and body stuff will bolt right up.

Bumper Conversion:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=335689

Rear discs will fit. They came stock on the MY96 2.2 OBS. See wac's site for everything you need to know about just about every question you asked. Everything he has for the OBS is relevant to the L:
http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/obs.html

To find out if it's a 1.8 or 2.2, either ask the owner, or go to www.carfax.com and run the VIN. You have to pay for a full report, but the free check gives you the motor size.

Intake is worthless if you're under 80 MPH. You'll lose low end torque. If you want to autocross, just go with a K&N box filter for the stock airbox. If you're a track whore, then an intake is worth it. I've raced two 2.2s and the stock airbox gave me better acceleration in autocross, rallycross, and ice racing. The only time the cold air intake helped was at the road course at NHIS.

If you don't have a tach, it may be a 1.8. Check the VIN on Carfax.

If it's a 1.8 vs. a 2.5, go for the 2.5. If it's a 2.2 vs. the 2.5, go for price. Figure $2k for hood, bumpers, fogs, suspension, discs, etc. to bring the 2.2 up to 2.5 spec, and then you just have a slower 2.5 RS.

But, all 3 of my Subarus have been 2.2s, and I routinely podiumed with my 2.2 L and my 2.2 OBS vs. 2.5 RSs, WRXs, and other turbo cars. The 2.2 is a torquey little bitch and can hold its own on short courses. It'll get blown away drag racing, but it's a perfect little zippy car.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 08:53 PM   #3
Sean
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 518
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trunkmonkey Racing
Vehicle:
762 PGT Impreza L,
Silverado EXT, Yaris

Default

Oh, and here's my "bone stock" (oh, I mean Production ) MY96 Impreza 2.2 L:



She's not "faster" than the WRX, but she's "quicker" than the WRX with the right nut behind the wheel.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 09:16 PM   #4
AWDPilot
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25058
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Shrewsbury, MA
Vehicle:
'15 DGM WRX Premium
9 and counting

Default

I loved my little L, and yes as Sean said, it's very torquey.

As a matter of fact it was quite a bit quicker then my wrx, (turbo lag sucks big ones) to a point.

You'll probably get better mpg in a L as well, I was getting about 28.
AWDPilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 09:54 PM   #5
Ru fan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1605
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Middletown, CT USA
Vehicle:
1997 1.8L Brighton
NESIC TrackH0z member#1

Default

It sounds like you are looking at a 2 door, brigton. My guess is that you will find the following specs.

-no tach, but you know that.
-no rear sway bar
-no abs. In my opinion, this car comes with the nicest feeling brakes of all GM/GC/GF body cars. Has the single stage booster which helps a lot. Screw the disks on the rear for now. The drums work just fine. I tracked my car with drums without any problems. Adding disks will only decrease performance.
-Only came in three colors for that year, blue, green, and red.
-The 1997 cars came with either a 1.8L or a 2.2L motor. I would take any one of these motors. The 1.8L of this year had a ton more hp and torque over the phase I 1.8L. Just about as quick as the 2.2L.
-3.90 gears.
-Smaller tire diameter than the RS.

It aint no drag car, but would be an awesome ITB race car.

Later,
Seth E.
Ru fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 10:39 PM   #6
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

I'll probably take it assuming its a 2.2. I'd still like to transplant a tach in, and I'm not so concerned w/ the ext. mods as I am w/ making it keep up w/ an RS.

What sort of sus. mods would do the job?
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 10:42 PM   #7
Those Meddling Kids
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4140
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hingham, MA
Vehicle:
02 WRX
00 MR-S

Default

[shameless plug]

You could buy my suspension

- 4 KYB AGXs
- 4 STi V6 springs
- 4 STi tophats

[/shameless plug]

Or you could just get RS suspension bits.

TMK
Those Meddling Kids is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 10:53 PM   #8
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2004, 11:01 PM   #9
Sean
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 518
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trunkmonkey Racing
Vehicle:
762 PGT Impreza L,
Silverado EXT, Yaris

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by americanyouth
What sort of sus. mods would do the job?
If you're looking for an inexpensive setup:

Used stock 2.5 RS struts (search the classifieds)
STi Group N Strut Mounts
Eibach or H&R springs

To go a little more expensive, use KYB GR-2 instead of the stock 2.5 RS struts.

Even better would be TMK's setup above.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 07:02 AM   #10
AWDPilot
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25058
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Shrewsbury, MA
Vehicle:
'15 DGM WRX Premium
9 and counting

Default

And as a side note, my L, a 2.2 DID have a tach, but it was a 99
AWDPilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 08:19 AM   #11
Italiano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2137
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT, USA -what am I doing here?
Vehicle:
a 6spd Manual
Acura

Default

My previous car was a 97 2.2 Impreza .... actually if you go look under members / ct you will find that i still have all my mods from my L listed along with a pic of what she looked like.

That was such a fun car!

Mods that made a differance :

RS Springs & Struts
18mm rear bar
ACT ProStreet clutch kit
STi short throw shifter ( w/ complete linkage)
K&N Panel filter in stock box
Custom Slotted Brembo oem replacement rotors ( front )
Moddified EBC Green Stuff Pads ( front )

The above list was my recipe for a fun impreza that i used everyday to go to work ( 100 + p/day ) and a weekend fun mobile .... i miss it dearly ( killed it off last year )

Go with a 97 2.2 L, you can make it just as fast as an RS + it's cheaper!

Italiano


p.s. Make sure it's a 5spd !

Last edited by Italiano; 03-09-2004 at 08:50 AM.
Italiano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 08:57 AM   #12
Sean
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 518
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trunkmonkey Racing
Vehicle:
762 PGT Impreza L,
Silverado EXT, Yaris

Default

One more point regarding the 2.2 vs. 2.5 issue: The stock for stock, the 2.5 RS will dominate the 2.2 L in a straight line. There's no replacement for displacement, and the 2.5 RS is still the faster car. But, get them side by side in the twisties or an autocross, and it could go either way. Either of them could easily win.

The other thing to mention is, driver skill is more important than mods... Why are you modding your L? Will you be autocrossing? Drag racing? Street racing? I routinely kick the crap out of WRXs with my L. That doesn't mean that the L is faster. That just means that my 5 years of motorsports experience has made my L quicker.

Trust me...before you do any mods, go do 3 or 4 autocrosses with the car in its stock trim to get a feel for exactly what the car handles like. Then, get new tires. From a performance standpoint, 15" performance tires will be the best mod you can do. The 2.2 is underpowered, and moving up to a 16" or 17" wheel will add unsprung weight to the drivetrain, increase drivetrain loss, and slow you down.

After tires, run another autocross on the stock suspension, then go with struts, springs, and maybe STi strut mounts. Run the rest of the autocross season on that setup. Once you get used to that, then start looking into other mods.

But, if you plan to autocross, you need to stay legal. Unless you plan on getting R compound race slicks and staying mostly stock, you should mod your car for STS. Some stuff (like the ALK, I believe), isn't legal in STS. So check the rules before you bolt anything to your car.

If you just want to mod your car for a fast daily driver and never plan to compete, so be it, but autocross will drastically improve your skill and make your car quicker than any mod will.

See the following thread for the exact same conclusion (he's also got a 2.2):

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=516728
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 09:33 AM   #13
RB5 Clone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30909
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lastditchracing.net & 03 STI
Vehicle:
RA East Open Class
Champs 07-08-09

Wink Analysis Paralysis

James--

I sense you are suffering a typical car malady...Analysis Paralysis.

Too many questions mean you never actually DO anything! You miss the opportunity to buy good cars cause you hesitate over pointless stuff like rear drums or what the front bumper looks like.

So find a good solid 2.2 Impreza, pay as little as you can get away with.

Start driving the car every day, in every condition.

RallyX or autoX it with NO MODS a few times to set yourself a baseline.

Then, in order of cost-effectiveness:

--upgrade tires & wheels appropriate to your intended use

--upgrade springs/struts appropriate to intended use

--keep racing, keep learning

--spend $ on yourself...ie driver training.

--forget modding the engine, if you drive the car well you can beat STis any day!

Go Buy A Freakin Scooby and GO PLAY!!! Drive it well and you will be spanking guys driving exotic hardware with your "grocery getter" car, which always brightens your day. This is a Good Thing.

Cheers,

Dave G
RB5 Clone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 10:20 AM   #14
Sean
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 518
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trunkmonkey Racing
Vehicle:
762 PGT Impreza L,
Silverado EXT, Yaris

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by RB5 Clone
Cheers,

Dave G
What he said.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 11:02 AM   #15
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by lotusTT
Did you miss this? http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=517494
I saw it.....
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 11:17 AM   #16
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

Italiano - Of course it's gonna be 5mt!!!

Sean, RB5 - You're absolutly right. I really do need to stop beating around the bush and go buy something. I'm really not that worried about going fast in a straight line, but I don't want to be completely swamped out on teh interstate....

I plan on using this car exclusively for street racing - or maybe just for fun w/ a few auto-x's mixed in. What I'm really looking for is a car that I can have fun w/ in all sorts of conditions, which is why I wanted a 2.5 in the first place. I actually though real hard about a s13 - I've got a friend who has one w/ a sr20det that I loved, but I realized winter (I'm probably going to school in upstate NY) and rwd don't mix well. So, I'd like a decently quick car that handles like the sharpest whip this side of a STi. Body mods aren't my first priority, but I think they will definitely coming further down the road.

It sounds like a 2.2L might fit the bill.

But I still need to do something about that stupid lack of a tach!!

James
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 11:23 AM   #17
AWDPilot
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25058
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Shrewsbury, MA
Vehicle:
'15 DGM WRX Premium
9 and counting

Default

James

Brightons = no tach
Ls = tach


So as long as it's not the brighton model your all set.
AWDPilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 12:30 PM   #18
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

no, i mean I want to put one in a brighton.
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 02:42 PM   #19
Ru fan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1605
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Middletown, CT USA
Vehicle:
1997 1.8L Brighton
NESIC TrackH0z member#1

Default

If your lookin for a drag machine, the 2.2L isnt all that fast. On the 1/4 mile, your talkin mini-van slow. My car with some mods like flywheel, clutch, exhaust, etc. was getting 17.5's. The only way it will ever be any bit faster is with some serious engine mods like a turbo kit, or engine swap. I think the 0-60 on these things is in the 10 second range. Heck, I dont even think the 2.5L is all that fast either.

.02

Later,
Seth E.
Ru fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2004, 08:26 PM   #20
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

Seth, I'm not too worried about 1/4 mile times. Anything's faster than the Nova, and I think I just might swap in a ej22t or ej20 somewhere down the road.
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 07:21 PM   #21
paultg
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 437
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Londonderry, NH
Vehicle:
'91 Miata MX5 (Red)
'09 Impreza OBS (Blk/Gry)

Default

paultg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 08:36 PM   #22
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

Paul,
I'm talking w/ that guy right now - the only hang-up is finding a spot to meet up close enough to me.
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 08:42 PM   #23
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

There's a well setup one in WA State that I saw... guys moving to VT and wants to sell it.

I'll try and find the contact info.
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 08:59 PM   #24
Jack
Add Lightness
Moderator
 
Member#: 13699
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2007 Lotus Elise
(From General)

Default

A couple of posts have hinted at this....but I'll just focus my comments on it.

You don't have to do a bunch of "typical" mods to make your car fast. When I bought my Neon last year, I prepped it to become a dedicated track car. Here's what I did and what I spent:

4 Mopar x-hi rate springs $125 shipped
4 GR-2 shocks $250 shipped
4 used alloys $190 and I sold the tires for $25
racing tires (used) free
car $500

You'll notice zero engine mods or brake mods. This car has peewee brakes. I did drastically reduce weight. 1st track day by about 250 lbs and 2nd track day by total about 400lbs.

With these modifications only, I was able to hang with Miatas, 3 series BMWs and such in the instructor groups and blow past E30 M3's and pass E36 M3's in group 2.

This statement tells you 2 things. You can run your car quite respectably with suspension and tires. And experience is far more of a modification than things you can bolt on your car.

My brakes were always fine and never boiled the fluid. I did not run brake ducts. Rears are drums.

jack
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2004, 10:03 PM   #25
jamesfacts
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NYC / Danbury CT
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

Honestly, Jack I'm starting to think I would like to go the L route right now. I'm talking to some guy in Pitt about his RS, but I don't think the distance is going to work out. One concern I have is exactly how to shave weight from the L. Sound deadening, spare tire, trunk carpet (and trunk badges or course) would be my guess but how much can I really save while keeping the car daily-drivable?

James
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2.2L vs 2.5L FlyinMozart Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 1 05-16-2010 10:05 AM
2.2L vs 2.5 RS spring/strut help maumau Brakes, Steering & Suspension 16 03-15-2007 03:26 PM
2.2L vs. 2.5RS jamesfacts New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 50 02-05-2004 10:59 AM
2.2L vs. 2.5L JMotorsprt Newbies & FAQs 9 02-06-2002 10:03 AM
00 2.2L vs. 96 2.2L, where'd the power come from? 96Lconversion Normally Aspirated Powertrain 15 01-19-2001 12:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.