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Old 08-02-2000, 09:06 AM   #1
ASNG
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Question OK, Kuhmo 712's or BFG G-Force KDW's??

Guy/Gals, I need some input!

Just as I finally decided on the BFG G-Force, I see all these posts, and positive word, about the Kuhmo 712's.
Now, I can't decide!

I do lots of autocrosses, some track, and tons of hard street driving.

So what would you pick, and why?

1.) BF Goodrich G-Force KDW 215/50/16 @$92.00
2.) Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712 205/50/16 @$81.00

Thanks!

ASNG
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Old 08-02-2000, 09:15 AM   #2
ColinL
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Post

The 712 W rated has only been lightly proven for autocross and road. Autocross is its own motorsport, and I would greatly prefer the larger and more stable tread blocks of the KDW for track use.

Then again, I have no idea how well the KDW grips.
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Old 08-02-2000, 09:16 AM   #3
El Kabong
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I'd go with the BFG's. I don't have an supporting arguements, I just think BFG makes the best tires. Some of the guys in the area aren't wild about the Kuhmo's.

Where'd you get those price quotes? I thought $104 on sale at Tire Rack was a good deal on KDW's!
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Old 08-02-2000, 10:30 AM   #4
Robin2
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Asng,

If you're taking the 215/50/16 KDW... be careful, it clearly states the tread pattern are different than all other KDWs.

THis size was made for Ford for their SVT car. Take a look at this pdf file from BFgoodrich.
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/2000%...e%20T_AKDW.pdf

Robin
National Capital Subaru Club www.ottawasubaru.com
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Old 08-02-2000, 10:42 AM   #5
Snoopy
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I've been very very happy with my Kumho 712 - in the rain and in an autocross, these bad boys grip!

Ask Eric Krimelmier, he's the top Subaru autocrosser in my area and runs on Kumho 712. He's only a fraction of a second slower than some guy in an Integra running on R-compound tires. Both are in ST class, I think. If Eric had R-compounds too, it'd be a no contest.
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Old 08-02-2000, 10:51 AM   #6
IMPRZIV
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Cool

Hello,

I have not had the opportunity to drive a car with the Kuhmo 712's myself. I have, as you have, noticed all of the positive comments flying around about them though. Having said that....

I am running BFG's G-Force KDW in the 215/50 ZR16 size (Yes, Contour SVT OEM). I have been very happy with them overall. They are a tad hard (Treadwear 300), but seem to hold on rather well despite this. They have proven very competant in both wet and dry conditions. I drive them fairly hard, and have noticed very little if any tread squirm, and no signs of the hard driving are showing up on the tire's tread. I'd imagine there are better dry tires out there, but as a comprimise between wet and dry traction on my everyday driver I've been quite pleased with them. We'll see if my opinion changes after I get a chance to play on a track, though I'm not particularly worried about it at this moment.

Oh, one other warning though. They are quite wide for a 215. I am running stock wheels and stock suspension and have had no issues AT ALL with rubbing, but the clearance between the rear tires inner sidewalls and the strut body is tight, less than a fingers width (At least my finger won't fit). I'm considering AGX's and Eibach Springs at the moment, and I'm worried that the AGX's may have larger strut bodies and that this could cause issues for me. Anyone want to tackle that one?

~Scott
Rally Blue MY99
Owings Mills, Md.
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Old 08-02-2000, 10:54 AM   #7
edekker
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I will also vouch for the KDW (got the 205/55-16 size).
The sidewalls are stiff as all hell (at least as stiff as the Yok AVS Sport). It's got great wet/dry traction and a high treadwear rating to boot. I auto-x'ed them and all but two of the cars which were faster had R-compound tires on them. My only gripe (and it's a small gripe) is about the noise it makes. It's similar to the kind of noise winter tires make, but not as loud. Once you're cruising at 55mph or faster the noise seem to disappear.
It's a really nice tire.
Ed.
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Old 08-02-2000, 07:00 PM   #8
scoobydude
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I have a quote from tirenet.com

"Your delivered cost per tire is $68.00 for a 205/50VR15 Kumho 712 ECSTA"
"

I don't know what the price would be for your size. Here is thier #1-888-261-9566
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Old 08-02-2000, 08:09 PM   #9
STi Sev
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scooby, dont be fooled

You want W rated tires!
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Old 08-02-2000, 08:11 PM   #10
STi Sev
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tirerack.com sells
205/50WR16 for $ 81
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Old 08-02-2000, 08:34 PM   #11
paultg
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Post

Guys, can ask some questions here? Could someone explain to me why we would want VV rated tires (168 mph I think)?
Is there a difference in tire compound/performance at autocross speeds?
I personally do not drive my car over 100 mph and keep it around 80mph max on the highway, so I was thinking V rated or even H rated for that matter would be fine, and I would probably get more mileage out of a lower speed rated tire (I think-?).
I do autocross occasionally though, and I do want to buy a tire that I'll be happy with. It should not be too hard to grip better than the RE92's at the track, so I am more concerned about road noise and mileage, as well as performance. So, what do you recommmend?
Also, I have Eibach Pro Kit springs on Stock Stuts w/20mm rear sway bar. Do you think 215/55/R16 or can I get away with 225/55/R16? Or do I have to go to a 50 series to avoid rubbing, and keep the diameter the same for diff. purposes?
Thanks again for all the help and good comments you guys give. It makes buying tires a much less stressful process.
Paul G.

[This message has been edited by paultg (edited August 03, 2000).]
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Old 08-02-2000, 08:45 PM   #12
ASNG
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Post

paultg,
The higher speed rating does not neccesarily mean that someone can actually be pushing it to that speed!
The higher the rating, the better the contruction, (stiffer sidewalls, better heat resistance, etc.), which translates to better perfomance at lower speeds as well. Mainly better handling.

To everyone else,
Thanks for the responses! It gives me a few more things to think about.

ASNG

ASNG
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Old 08-03-2000, 12:48 AM   #13
blaster88
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I am pretty happy with my Kuhmos. I got them to auto-x on, but I left them on because a) I like the way the gold wheels look b) they grip way better than the RE92s (I'll put them back on before winter) and c) they are quieter on the road than the RE92s
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Old 08-03-2000, 06:10 AM   #14
ColinL
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The reason to avoid the Kumho 712 V rated is in a post in the technical forum, search for "712 W" and my username if you can't find it.
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