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Old 05-29-2000, 06:50 AM   #1
bryanw
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Post why do fog lights go out with high beams

Seems kind of stupid. The law here requires no more than 4 lights burning at a time. But when you turn on the high beams, the regular lights go out anyway, so with the fog lights, there would still be only 4 running. I cannot stand how all new cars shut off the regular lights when you go to high beams. That is so stupid. In fact, when driving the Subaru at night, I can't drive with the high beams because you can't see anything at all up close. It's so dumb. Which government environmental beurocratic agency made this an f'ing requirement? Who cares if we can't see and we run into things on the road more now, at least there's not as much of that horrible light ruining the picturesque countryside at nights! Damnit. Rant mode off.
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Old 05-29-2000, 07:12 AM   #2
Mike Smith
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Cool

Fog light are for fog. When it's thick, you can't use your high beams, because they bounce back at you, reducing visibilty. The fog lights point out and down to help you see the edge of the road. If you want lights to see further down the road, you need DRIVING lights.
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Old 05-29-2000, 07:22 AM   #3
bryanw
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Yes, I know you can't use your high beams in the fog. I don't want to use my high beams in the fog, I want to use my fog lights with the high beams. I don't see how the fog lights will help you much in the fog anyway. They're pointing so far down, the light only extends to maybe 5 ft in front of the car. I guess that's so you can see what you're about to hit 1/10 of a second before you hit it.
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Old 05-29-2000, 07:30 AM   #4
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The way I understand it, they point basically straight down so that you can see the edge line and the center line. That way, when the fog is really thick and you cannot see the road, you can just follow the lines.

Of course, many years ago, my grandpa was doing just that as he was driving down to Florida. He followed the edge line off an exit and onto a different highway. When the fog finally lifted, he was about 50 miles off-track--oops.
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Old 05-29-2000, 07:46 AM   #5
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Old 05-29-2000, 08:14 AM   #6
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Thumbs down

Besides, you're not supposed to drive fast in a foggy area.
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Old 05-29-2000, 08:19 AM   #7
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The real issue, is why we can't have the fog lights on when the parking lights are enabled rather than only with the low beams on. Yet another case of sue happy americans... "I thought that cause the white lights were on in the front, my headlights were on, it's not my fault i rear ended that guy"

-mike
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Old 05-29-2000, 11:43 AM   #8
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why dont you guys do what we do in the UK?

Lots, and i mean lots of UK impreza drivers throw the front foglights away and fit some 130 watt driving lights in there place. Most use either the scoobysport cibie conversion or the prodrive developed PIAA conversion. Both of these bolt straight on using the original bolts and require a very simple wiring/relay kit fitting which comes with the lights. They take about 1 hour to install, anyone with very basic auto skills could do it.

The difference is stagering as the standard impreza lights are just hopeless.

Most UK guys are also changeing the standard bulbs for some Xenon replacements, they are rated the same as standard so are legal but give approx 30% more light.

You're probably going to say you would get screwed by the law if you did that in the USA now airnt ya!
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Old 05-29-2000, 05:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Most UK guys are also changeing the standard bulbs for some Xenon replacements, they are rated the same as standard so are legal but give approx 30% more light.
If you believe the ads. EVERY factual article I've read on the net says it's just a bunch of BS. They say they only give SLIGHTLY more light during a clear night, but create a serious reflective harzard under all other weather conditions and actually do you much more harm than good.
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Old 05-29-2000, 08:02 PM   #10
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Actually the real reason the fog lights go off when u turn on ur high beams, is that it is legal to have low beams running with fog lights on, but it is illegal to have fog lights on with high beams on. just my $.02

~Brandon
99' black RS

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Old 05-29-2000, 11:35 PM   #11
BG5
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funny this came up, just got the parts today to modify my harness so fogs are always available whenever the ignition is on.

hmmm, didn't see anything in the CFR specifically banning fogs and hi-beam together except for a wiring requirement for photometric testing/compliance in high-beam... If then fogs were adjusted to complement the hi's it would seem to be legal...

The relevant code for the lawyers out there...: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...1998&TYPE=TEXT
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Old 05-29-2000, 11:53 PM   #12
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something about complaints from sterile cows . thats what i heard any way
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Old 05-30-2000, 12:25 AM   #13
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paul, Are you related to richard?
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Old 05-30-2000, 05:44 AM   #14
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I'm not too sure about the "legal issues" surrounding fog/high beam operating conditions, however when I want light, I want light. It's pretty simple. So here's a link to the primary Fog light wiring diagram for MY00. www.geocities.com/baja/trails/8008/foglights.html

My apologies for the ultra-long link,
Fitz


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Old 05-30-2000, 05:57 AM   #15
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There is a way to get around this problem. I have instructions on how to have the fogs on with the high beams. It also turns on the fogs when only the parking lights are on also. Basically what they (Subaru) did was make it so that the low beams provided a ground for the fogs, but when you turn on the high's, the ground is taken away. So all you have to do is run a ground wire from the park/ corner lights to the fog relay to complete the circuit. The instructions aren't specifically for the Impreza, more like a Maxima, but the theory is the same.

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Old 05-30-2000, 11:38 AM   #16
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errrm bryanw,

i dont care what your mags say, i know they work for me and i would have been screwed on my trip round scotland in blizzard conditions without them.

Hope you don't take offence but i think you are wrong on this one.
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Old 05-30-2000, 11:57 AM   #17
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I'm just going by what I read. All the technical sites say they're a waste of money and a road hazard. The only sites that say they're any good are the manufacturers' sites and some of the dealers. I'll start believing in them when the majority of the automakers offer them.
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Old 05-30-2000, 01:08 PM   #18
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you asked for it so you got it!

This is a piece i wrote for the UK SIDC web site, hope you enjoy the journey 1/100 what i did.

************************************************** **************************************

What a mega journey, didn't plan any of the journey with great detail. I just had an outline of where i wanted to go and would go with the flow. Took sensible stuff like extra warm clothing, sleeping bag, and torch etc. in case i got stuck up in the highlands.

I left Stockport at 11.30 am on Thursday morning and onto the M60, onto the M61 heading north. I caught up to a car transporter on its way into Bolton full of scoobies with a sport at the back of the trailer, good omen i thought.

Carry on up the M61 to Preston doing 5 minutes at 70MPH, five at 80MPH, five at 70 in 4th etc to keep the engine load changing, this helps it bed in and not glaze the bores.

On to the M6 at Preston and head north to bonny Scotland. About halfway between Preston and Carlisle get buzzed by a C130 Hercules military transporter doing some valley hugging flying, what a fantastic sight. 10 miles later 2 tornado's fly across the motorway just in front of me as they go flying down a valley at a fair old rate. I absolutely love military aircraft, brings a good feeling about the trip ahead.

Leave the M6 at Carlisle and head up the A7 towards Edinburgh. Great road, nothing much happens on this section, just flowing along at 70MPH. Get into Hawick town centre, notice that people are walking around smiling at each other as they pass, they seam quite jolly up hear, donít see that in Manchester much.

Just leaving Hawick and parked on the left is a mini painted up with Austin Power's name in sphycodelic painting up the sides with matching paintjob, what a laugh, makes me think of young Phil for some reason.

Nothing much happens now, just great roads, car is flowing nicely and can feel the engine loosening a little.

Arrive at the Edinburgh south bypass, A720 and head for the forth bridge, it's about 4pm now so missed the heavy traffic. Doing a steady 80MPH in the outside lane in heavy but flowing traffic and this Nissan Micra starts tailgating me. This stupid young woman was sitting literally 10 feet off my bumper at 80MPH, there's nowhere for me to go so i just back off from the car in front to allow me to slow at a more steady state should i have to stop in an emergency, there's no way she would hit the brakes, never mind slow down if i had to stop quickly. I then notice there is a 4-year-old kid sat in the front seat who starts to stand up on the seat. This kid is jumping up and down on the front seat of a Nissan micra doing 80 MPH 10 feet of my bumper, totally insane. I have had enough of this in my mirror so just pull over and watch this idiot pass by me totally oblivious to what she is doing. She must have been only 19 or 20 years old. Someone is going to die one day because of her, probably that 4-year-old kid. Absolutely horrifying thought, i just let her go on her merry way, i donít want a 4 year old landing on my boot lid thank you very much!

Pass over the forth road bridge, love the look of the rail bridge. Head up the M90 to Perth, the weather is starting to look a bit angry up ahead. This is no problem, as time doesn't matter here, what happens happens. Great attitude for safe driving in adverse conditions.

On to the A9 at Perth and head towards Inverness, fabulous road, really nice flow to it, stick at a good steady 70-80MPH until the snow starts coming down, slow it down to a steady 60MPH. I can see for miles ahead but as the snow starts to fall thicker i drop my speed as the visibility gets worse, drop it to 30MPH as the road is now covered by 2" of snow and visibility is getting worse. Come to a duel carriageway section and decide to stop for a couple of minutes in a lay by. It takes ages to bring the car to a stop, i hate ABS in the snow, it's useless. Jump out of the car for a quick stretch etc. Hear this huge noise coming towards me out of the gloom of a blizzard. Stand back from my car totally gobsmacked. This Articulated truck, one of the real biggies goes steaming past in the outside lane doing at least 60MPH passing cars doing 30MPH tops, this is in 2" of snow in a blizzard. Has this guy got radar and reverse thrusters fitted? There are some people on the road that are out to get you, this guy is definitely one of them. The thing that struck me was that this guy was not breaking the speed limit yet was totally insane, will he be done for driving like this? I think not!

Cary on towards Inverness, the snow is getting worse, total white out. I drop it to 10MPH and use the side of the road to see where i am going, this last's for about 2 miles, very hypnotising. Go over the top near Daviot and start to drop into Inverness, the weather is getting better now and the speed steadily increases as the blizzard clears.

Go past Inverness and head north up the A9, the roads are now clear so pick the speed up again and do a nice 80MPH all the way up the east coast, leave the A9 at latheron and head up the A99 to Wick. Stop in Wick to fill up with fuel and buy some provisions, Red Bull kick's ass, feel full of energy so decide to continue on and turn off the main road at Wick and head up the A99 to John o'Groats.

Wick to John o'Groats is just under 20 Miles, there has been no gritters on this road and it is covered in compacted snow and sheet ice, absolutely deadly, i potter along at 20MPH in 3rd, play with the brakes and throttle to get a feel for what the car will do, god i hate ABS in these conditions.

Arrive in John o'Groates, it's just like a bus terminus with a turning circle and a small hut right on the edge of the bay. Itís called the last house i think. Itís about midnight now. I had planned on staying up there in a B&B but decide to press on; not feeling tired at all.

This is where the journey goes from being a nice flowing drive, occasionally slow but mainly fast flowing roads into an awesome challenging drive. Its still snowing lightly but nothing major, it stops for 10 minutes then comes back again fairly lightly. Its on and off like this for the next couple of hours.

I head from John o'Groats down the A836 along the north coast towards Thurso. The road has been gritted but on ALL the tight right-hand corners there is no grit at all, very bizarre. Either the gritter driver has a nasty sense of humour or the truck has a fault that starves it of grit on right handers, i soon suss out that left means fast right means slow down, very bizarre way of driving. Pass through Thurso and get onto the A386 proper, i notice my headlights donít seem so bright so stop to clean the spotlamps of any grit that might be covering them. ****, both the Spot lamps aren't working. I check the fuse, which is OK so both my bulbs have blown. Here i am, on top of the country on one of the most challenging roads in the pitch black with only the standard lights to rely on. Not ideal, i am just glad i put some xenon bulbs in, as the standard lamps are totally useless.

Now starts one of the best journeys of my life, its 150 miles of mainly single track ultra twisty road, some sections are completely clear of snow and ice, as they have been gritted, others are just covered in snow, not an inkling of salt. There seems no logic as to when the salted sections start and stop, maybe itís to do with county lines and one county grits, and the other doesn't?

Anyway, i am driving this amazing road at a good, fast pace, usually between 50 and 60MPH with the odd 80MPH section. I get into a great rhythm and the road is just flowing nicely, it's an amazing feeling when you are driving a road like this, you get into a state where you are not conscious of driving the car, it just seems to go where your thoughts tell it to go, very Zen like.

There isn't a single road sign for any particularly tight bends for over 100 miles so you have to stay totally focused on the road ahead, just a great feeling. I had one very dodgy moment where i was on a totally snow free section, for a good 20 Miles when i crested a hill and the road dropped away to the left after the crest and it was covered in snow, hadn't seen any snow for miles, very odd.

Anyway thanks Don Palmer is all i can say, i know if i hadn't been to MIRA i would have stuffed it, i was turning in and absolutely nothing was happening, i remember thinking take the lock off, it'll grip and then i can sort it out. So that's what i did, steering away from the corner made it turn into the corner more and i got round it OK, just. Brought a big smile to my face, as I know driver training had helped me massively, a good investment that has paid back big time.

I am now about 50 miles north of Ullapool and the road opens up into a 2 lane road, really fast and flowing and totally free of snow so start to get a move on, 90MPH would be really easy. I notice some signs for dear so decide that 60-70 would be a more sensible pace. Was i wrong on that one! The next 50 miles were to be the most bizarre i have ever driven.

I am driving along at a nice 60MPH and spot some dear ahead in the road so slam on the brakes and pass them at about 10MPH. Bloody hell, they make em big up there and well hard, i am sure they were staring me out, spooky.

The next 50 miles were driven at a steady 50MPH; it gave me enough time to react to any dear in the road. I got good at spotting them ahead as i am sure there was always a look out about 100 yards before the main bunch, that would be stood at the side of the road.

These dear aren't the ordinary dear you find in England, these dear are totally nuts, camacazi dear, i am sure i could hear them shouting Tora, Tora, Tora as i aproached.

The road was so tempting to put your foot down but 50MPH was tops if i wanted to come home in one piece. I pass through Ullapool at about 2.30am i think, i wasn't watching the clock so am not sure on that. During that 150 Mile journey from John o'Groats to Ullapool i hadn't seen another car or person at all, i would love to do that run again in the summer when not running my car in, it would be mind boggling, mega road.

I head south on the A835 towards Inverness; no dear now so put the boot in and do a good 80MPH all the way to Inverness. My original plan was to go down the A82 past loch Ness but the weather has turned very bad again as i get to Inverness and the radio says the road is treacherous so i think better of it and head back down the A9 towards Perth.

The road is now totally covered in snow, a steady 40MPH is in order so i tootal along at this pace for about 20 miles, i start to feel a little tired so decide to pull off the main road and grab an hours kip in a lay-by, my fuel gauge is looking very low and so i decide to switch the engine off and jump into the sleeping bag.

An hour later i wake up and feel much better for the sleep, fire the engine up and head off down the A9. I am starting to get a bit worried about the fuel situation. I pass lots of small villages with petrol stations but not one is open, itís now about 6.30am. The car starts to stutter slightly so i pull over and put the 5 litres of fuel in i was carrying as backup. Its 30 miles to Perth, no fuel stations i can remember seeing on my way up so it now becomes an economy run to Perth.

Make it to Perth OK and fill up after running the last 30 miles at a steady 60MPH. Put 48Litres in the car and 5 back in the can, so about 1 litre from running out, close call. The sport is a 50-litre tank by the way!

Back down the M90 to Edinburgh, hit the forth bridge at 8am, traffic not too bad but the off ramp for the Edinburgh bypass is chocka so decide to go down the back roads through kirkliston and then onto the M8/A720.

I came off the A720 onto the A703 and pass through Hillend. I am sat at some lights and this young lad, about 14, comes marching past me in full carky combat gear, he is literally marching up the road like he is on parade, very surreal site at 8.30am in the middle of a small town.

I head towards Peebles down the A703 and start to feel a bit tired again, Edinburgh traffic had slowed the flow so i decide to stop in a lay-by for a kip. I wake up 2 hours later to the sound of a Scooby turbo on full chat passing within feet of my car. It is a marked cop car doing a U-turn, using the lay-by after stopping someone. 10 minutes later he is back doing the same again, giving it death out of the lay-by, i think this copper likes his job.

I feel OK again so after 10 minutes of having a bite to eat and some red bull i feel fully awake so set off again. Pass through Peebles and onto the A72 to Galashields, nice 80MPH run all the way. Onto the A7 south and have a good run all the way to the M6 at Carlisle.

Then have a steady run down the M6, slow for some traffic as the outside lane is closed and spot a nice Met Green 5 door turbo coming up the outside, let him in in front of me and we spend the next 20 miles in mini convoy down the M6 towards Preston. The engine is now feeling nice and loose but still being gentle on the throttle as i donít want to load it up with the mobil1 oil that will now have lots of swarf floating around in it, stick to a steady 85MPH all the way to Preston. Onto the M61 towards Manchester and then onto the M60 round the south of Manchester, past Stockport and up the M67 Hyde bypass. At the end of the bypass turn back towards home in Hyde and arrive at my garage at 2.30pm Friday afternoon.

I have one very, very dirty car. Absolutely covered in salt from the highlands, they donít half cover the roads in that stuff; at times its like driving on a forest stage as you feel the car sliding around on the rock salt.

So i now have a nicely run in Impreza Sport. I covered 1172 miles in 27 hours, 24 of which were driving.

What can i say about the Impreza after such a long journey?

An absolutely awesome all-rounder, fabulous grip, crap brakes on snow, crap lights when the spot lamps fail, very fast on the twisty flowing sections in particular.

Best part of the journey?

The A836 from Thurso to Ullapool, i am definitely going back on that road in summer, absolutely awesome.


And yes i do understand sarchasm (even if i cant spell) and i do love my scooby. (even if it is a little slow)
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Old 05-30-2000, 01:24 PM   #19
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Ow! That is awfully detailed. I can't do that justice until I go home and get out my handy UK road atlas, as I don't remember all the road names, let alone spell the towns I went through.

[This message has been edited by Yotsuya (edited May 30, 2000).]
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Old 05-31-2000, 12:45 AM   #20
johnfelstead
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just a basic lesson in life.

The manufacturers will fit whatever costs them the least and yet is legal, have you never heard of the buyers department in an auto manufactures before?

If Subaru gave a stuff about the quality of the lights on the Impreza do you honestly think they would supply the cars with the current light setup? i think not!

Brian, i hope you aren't confusing these lights with the blue tinted aftermarket lights, they are useless and do dazzle. The Zenon lights i refer to are a pure white light that improves visibility significantly, especialy on dipped beam.

[This message has been edited by johnfelstead (edited May 30, 2000).]
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Old 05-31-2000, 12:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
If Subaru gave a stuff about the quality of the lights on the Impreza do you honestly think they would supply the cars with the current light setup
Yea, those evil Subaru engineers up to their normal ways. We better all go sell our cars before the timed self-destruct sequences they placed in our cars will go off and kill us. Subaru hates us, don't you know? They only want to take our money and send us all to hell. Why else would they put such an inadequate light setup on our cars?


For all the idiots out there, this is an example of extreme sarcasm. If you do not know what that means or you think that I'm being totally serious with this post, please don't start filling my email box with your useless garbage about how I need to go to a mental hospital if I think my car has a self-destruct device in it.
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Old 05-31-2000, 12:58 AM   #22
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JohnFelstead-

What route did you use to Drive around Scotland? I was working in Dublin back in Feb and for the first week of March I took a week off and did a loop of Scotland starting in Glasgow (well, actually Prestwick; it was a RyanAir flight).

Weather all along the west coast (partucularly one of my days on Skye) was miserable, with constant overcast skys, some fog on when I the elevation got too high, and some of the nastiest rain/wind combinations I've seen.

During one jaunt over to a small town called Applecross I ended up on a mountain road with snow, dense fog, and one lane. The foglights on my rental (thank the Lord it had them) were quite useful for seeing the road, even if it was only a few feet; visibility was pretty much nil, and oncoming trafic would not be visible until it was literally on top of you.

As for my own Impreza, does anyone know if the ScoobySport, Prodirve, or MRT driving lights would be illegal in the US? Unless I move back to Colorado, I can see myself getting use out of the driving lights more than fog lights. But for nighttime highway drives through Indiana or Wisconson, they would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-31-2000, 07:41 AM   #23
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You can have your fogs on with the highs. When you put your high beams on, pull back on the stalk a little until you can here/feel it click. You'll notice the highs and the fogs stay on at the same time. You don't have to hold it there either it will stay. It is a little tricky but you will get used to it.
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Old 05-31-2000, 07:44 AM   #24
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My question was not how do I do it but why isn't it legal? I did some research and it turns out that the lumen output of highbeams+fogs exceed legal limits. That's why they're wired like that.
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Old 05-31-2000, 08:01 AM   #25
Subie Gal
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i dunno about it being illegal and all...

2 months after i bought my car, i rewired the fogs directly into the parking lights, up the fuse and they are on whenever i want...

high beam - low beam - parking lights - fogs are on all the time...

i've never even been stopped for that one, nor have i heard of it being illegal.
In WA state, you are allowed 4 lights on at one time... 2 fog and 2 headlamps...
I have 8 lights on my car - including the stock ones...
I have them all wired in separately for use as/when needed and I wouldn't run them all at the same time unless it was RALLY time...

anyway... i've never been stopped for running fogs/headlamps/highbeam, etc.
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