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Old 03-16-2004, 05:20 PM   #1
100
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Default Talk me out of Koni inserts + Ground Control coilovers

This is for my 2002 WRX Wagon on 225/45-17 rubber. I'm getting the coilovers so that I can raise the rear if it starts rubbing.

I don't intend to install top mounts. Is that okay? Is there anything else I need to order besides the inserts and coilovers?

Can anyone forsee any problems with this system?

100
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:54 PM   #2
nunyo
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Toss in a set of 14mm camber bolts for the rear. It's a good (perhaps better than raising) way to get the clearance you need to avoid rubbing.
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:04 PM   #3
brazymstrp
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whats up.

You wont need to get top mounts if you use the konis. The only reason I used the topmounts on my setup was because my struts were sedan-specific. With the konis, you use your original struts and remove the shaft and such to install the new inserts. That would be a beautiful setup. There is no way I am talking you out of it. haha ...however, you could always get them for me...haha jK

-Jack
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:10 PM   #4
Cosworth
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Quote:
Originally posted by 100
This is for my 2002 WRX Wagon on 225/45-17 rubber. I'm getting the coilovers so that I can raise the rear if it starts rubbing.

I don't intend to install top mounts. Is that okay? Is there anything else I need to order besides the inserts and coilovers?

Can anyone forsee any problems with this system?

100
If your problem is rubbing, then thei will definitely help, albeit, not directly in the manner in which you stated. So while, yes you can raise it to help prevent rubbing, stiffer coils will drastically decrease the likelyhood that the suspension will compress enough to actually get to the point of rubbing. *Even when lowered below stock!*

Additionally, i agree with the folks above in that adding some simple camber bolts to the rear will help dial out any rubbing as well. Additionally, you don't need stiffer stop mounts at all.

So sorry, i can't talk you out of this one... in fact, it sounds like just the prescription you need! (provided your wallet agrees, thats not my call)
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:36 PM   #5
YinUCSD
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you dont need new top hats.

what springs are you currently running and what is the offset of your wheels? because if your wheels are the correct offset you wont rub even if you are lowered, but not too much.
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:36 PM   #6
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While you may not NEED stiffer top mounts they would certainly be a good thing. With stiffer springs your struts will be working harder. The only thing connecting the top of the strut to the car is the top mount, the softer the rubber the less efficiently the strut can do it's job. It's kind of like the stock endlinks, they really aren't that bad under a static load but they add a good bit of lag in the transitions.

Koni / Ground control is definitely the way to go I'm headed that way myself

Later,
Dustin
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:05 PM   #7
Mark Avery
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Don't worry about rubbing, just get the fender lips rolled.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:38 PM   #8
Cosworth
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Quote:
Originally posted by D_REX
While you may not NEED stiffer top mounts they would certainly be a good thing. With stiffer springs your struts will be working harder. The only thing connecting the top of the strut to the car is the top mount, the softer the rubber the less efficiently the strut can do it's job. It's kind of like the stock endlinks, they really aren't that bad under a static load but they add a good bit of lag in the transitions.

This is all true. Furthermore, it becomes more true, the stiffer a set of coils/dampers you use. With typical Eibach, H&R's, SPT, etc, you would not need them, however, if you're running some 400# coils, it would be a critical item. All points inbetween, its a tossup and your call. But know that it will never hurt to have them. Unfortunatly, we don't have any concrete figures as to the threshold when you should really have them. It unfortunate that the rear's are so expensive.
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Old 03-17-2004, 12:46 AM   #9
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I need to choose spring rates, and they ain't gonna be no 400. What are some good rates if I commute and track/autoX?
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:46 AM   #10
sdecker
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I'm thinking about adding GC's to my existing Koni setup as a replacement for the current Prodrive springs...

So a 'bump' for more spring info.

Scott
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:41 AM   #11
Cosworth
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Quote:
Originally posted by 100
I need to choose spring rates, and they ain't gonna be no 400. What are some good rates if I commute and track/autoX?
I have a great street kit for sale... the rates are very comfortable, yet provide a nice balance of handling.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=521254

The specs are the ever popular 9", 280# front and 8", 250# rear spring. A search will yield many other satisfied folks with this combo. Any less than that and you are in typical Eibach/H&R coil rate ranges.
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Old 03-17-2004, 01:31 PM   #12
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I just sproke to GC and they were very adomant about not going below 300# on the front. They said that there is good chance of coind bind when lower then that due to linear rate of the springs.
Anyone has a coment on that?
The guys there are saying that 300 / 250 is going to be good on the street and will let you run good at auto-x.

Alex...
Alex Performance
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Old 03-17-2004, 02:18 PM   #13
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Thats not entirely true. I have a spreadsheet that i use to calculate all the values for ride height, coil bind, travel, static rest heights, etc and there is plenty of travel left in those combos. Especially since the front is a 9" spring. For instance, on a WRX sedan, the 9" 280# spring will have 2.19" of travel beyond static rest height left (and taked 615# to do it) vs a 300#, 8" spring which has only 1.81" left of travel (541# required). Similarly, a 7", 400# coil has 1.98" remaining (790# required). A 7", 300# coil would not be as advisable as it only has 1.32" remaining and would only take 395# to compress it.

So you can go less than 300#, but you need the length of a longer spring to get you the travel you need.

Another thing to remember is that you are going to lower the car some and as a result, you will not need much travel. From the numbers you see above others that i have calculated, you are generally only going to have about 1.5"-2.25" or bump travel in these springs. Thats it! However, when you lower the car, you really reduce the amount of bump travel in the shocks as well. Generally speaking, you will have about the same amount of bump travel for the shock as you have for the spring... sometimes even less. Remember though, the stiffer the spring, the less likely you are to atually bottom out the spring and not the shock. I can't ever remember bottoming out my 9", 280#'ers.

Hope this helps,
Jon.
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Old 03-17-2004, 02:24 PM   #14
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Thanks Joh.

Alex...
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Old 03-17-2004, 04:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cosworth
. I can't ever remember bottoming out my 9", 280#'ers.

Hope this helps,
Jon.

Ditto. I've never bottomed out on this same setup (with Konis ).

You can still cross railroad tracks, speed bumps, crowned roadways, etc. at a decent speed. You will definitely feel more of a jolt than with stock set up, but bottoming out has never been an issue.

Keep in mind the force quoted to bottom out these springs is per side. So over 1200 pounds total.

If you had stock struts you might have to worry about it, but you don't



Gonz.
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Old 03-17-2004, 04:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gonz
Keep in mind the force quoted to bottom out these springs is per side. So over 1200 pounds total.


Gonz.

Gonzie, how ya been chief?

He's right fellas, and furthermore, the 1200# for the whole front end is on top of the ~1800 lbs of static weight already weighing it down!

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