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Old 08-17-2000, 10:28 AM   #1
Sean
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Exclamation Cops got me with ESP, any hope to fight it?

The cops in Allentown, PA are out in full force and had quite a few people pulled over after a wide sweeping turn. We went through an ESP trap, Motorola relayed our tags and a cop pulled us over about a mile ahead.

I was going to fight it, especially because they had so many people pulled over. The ESP was down the road, so I didn't get to see the readout. The cop also ticketed me (and everyone else) for 40 in a 25, suspiciously dead equal to the 15 miles per hour point increase.

I'm hitting the Web and searching the BBS to research ESP, but wanted to know if anyone had any tips...I know radar is inaccurate, laser is a joke and all the fun tricks, but I don't know anything about ESP. Isn't it basically two electric eyes that get you with no human intervention...the cop just has to Motorola in your tags?

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Old 08-17-2000, 10:31 AM   #2
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extra sesnory preception?
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Old 08-17-2000, 10:34 AM   #3
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Where in Allentown was this? (I travel a lot through Allentown and would like to know where the trap is.)

Thanks!
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Old 08-17-2000, 10:35 AM   #4
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Extra-sensory Perception is a flop. Nobody can really read minds or any of that crap. Its all for entertainment. Tell that cop he is full of it! j/k. Sorry to hear about the ticket but I have no idea how ESP works or if it is valid.
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Old 08-17-2000, 10:37 AM   #5
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well, if there weren't any officers that actually saw you speeding (especially the officer that wrote the ticket), you'll probably have a good chance at getting it thrown away in court. good luck
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Old 08-17-2000, 10:38 AM   #6
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Were you in sight of the arresting officer at all times between the esp and getting pulled over? If not you are scott free!!!!!
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Old 08-17-2000, 10:40 AM   #7
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I do believe if the officer didnt observe you speading, you cant get points, a fine maybe. Im not sure about PA laws.


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Old 08-17-2000, 10:59 AM   #8
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The trap is at the 2500 block of E. Texas Rd., Allentown. They were giving out tickets behind Dorney Park yesterday.

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Old 08-17-2000, 05:16 PM   #9
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If the police officer didn't actually witness you speeding (ie: the trap was a mile down the road) you are home free. All you need to do is ask the officer in court when you go where the trap was in relation to his position. You then ask him if he ACTUALLY WITNESSED the infraction. If it is really a mile distance we're talking about, you have easily cast the shadow of reasonable doubt.
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Old 08-17-2000, 06:05 PM   #10
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I've heard that argument before. Do your homework. I've heard of that argument blowing up in peoples faces. The situation is a different though. These guys were busted for speeding by a state patrol speed trap that was using spotter planes (I've been nailed by one myself). They went to court to argue the ticket and the pilot or person who was doing the timing and spotting was there along with the guy who wrote the ticket. I haven't even heard of ESP so I don't know if this is applicable.

-Brian
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Old 08-17-2000, 06:07 PM   #11
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To all who've think it's that easy to get out of the ESP ticket, lemme share my experiences:

I got a ticket for 45mph in a 25mph. First of all lemme just say that where i got pulled over is the biggest trap I've ever seen..the road comes from a highway *and highway speeds) then it leeds into Leesport township, where the speed drops to 40mph, THEN! less than 1/10 of a mile the speed limit suddenly drops to 25mph!!! WTF?!?!? Needless to say I got pulled over.

Lucky me (or so i thought) they were doing rookie training. So i get this snot nose, acne sprouting new punk in my face. Needless to say lemme list the mistakes he makes on my ticket:

a)miswrites my address, crosses it out and writes it in.

b)totally misses my year of birth!

c)miswrites my license plate!

okie get this, i write a letter to the judge explaining all the error cause i live in NY, hoping he'll throw out the ticket. But NOOOooooo he replies that it doesn't mean a thing and that I either have to pay the ticket or come to court. By now I am fuming...

Sooo I drive 200+ miles back to Pennsylvania to goto court. I point out these errors to the judge, know what he says??? "Well we can establish w/o a reasonable doubt that it was you in your car...But considering that you drove back from NY to fight the ticket, he dropped it from 10-19 over the limit, to 1-9mph over the limit...."

WHoooPPTIE DOO!! SO NOW I Have to pay $118 instead of $138!!! Holy Chr**t! PA likes to add on insane amount to their tickets...EMS fee, Judicial Fees, Highway tax...some STUPID other taxes.... holy cow... You'd think that PA has SOME OTHER means of income??? The actual ticket was only like $80....

sorry for the ramble but I hate to hear about other ppl getting screwed the same way...


chrisC

BTW: ESP is basically the same thing as VASCAR: a cop sits in an unmarked car and times how long it takes for you to pass between two painted white lines of known distance on the road. Then thru mathmatics it's easy to calculate your speed: Hence no radar use and a heck of lot cheaper....(cheapskate PA...)

[This message has been edited by silverSurfer (edited August 17, 2000).]
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Old 08-17-2000, 06:38 PM   #12
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Let's give it up for the great state of PA! Yeah, sure. I cannot even drive around here anymore and feel "free". It feels as if there is always a cop breathing down my neck. I do respect the law, and those who uphold it, but these guys in the ABE area are taking their job to the next level.

Let's see, I get followed almost everyday, pulled over once or twice a week. For what? Nothing, they just pull me over for the hell of it. So, I called the state police and all the other local departments and filed a complaint. No changes, as expected, but next time I am just going to blow up on these guys! I mean c'mon, find something to do.

Ok, enough ranting. Lastly, NEVER EVER drive through Bath, PA. I gaurantee that you will get pulled over driving a modified car.

Geez,

Chris www.trituning.com
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Old 08-17-2000, 06:42 PM   #13
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What's PA?
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Old 08-17-2000, 06:59 PM   #14
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North Carolina police are (relatively speaking) great, I guess. The Wake Forest/rural PD spots you 13mph over the limit and will tell you that. When they pull you over, they like to warn you. I just got one yesterday for 40 in a 20 zone. I just hope I didn't jinx myself...

The only spot it's bad is at the beach, and it really only gets bad if you drive like a tourist or have out of state license plates (so you pony up the dough instead of going to court). They tend to follow me because the rice phenom is a little more prevalent where tourists come, but I haven't gotten pulled over yet (knock on wood).

I don't even know how they enforce speed limits in South Carolina. No emissions laws either...
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Old 08-18-2000, 06:37 AM   #15
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Exclamation

I live in PA. to I live in Gelnolden untill tomarow then move back to Media. I have lived in Glenolden for about a year now. The cops are all wright there have not been pulled over, and my car dose atract atention. Befour I moved to Glenolden I lived in Media.....where I am moving back to tomarow. It is a diffrent story there, the cops in Media are the kind who have nothing to do and have given me problems in the past. IE: got pulled over 3 times in 2 weeks for nothing the cop would come up with some excuse for pulling me over the would let me go. Lets see I think one was pulling away from a stop sing to fast...but I was not speeding...no ticket. Anuther was for tunrnig off my headlights when pulling into a gas station to get gas????? WTF. I still don't know what the cop was thinking on that one. The 3erd one was for recless driving and driving at a unsafe speed? I pulled out of Wawa and was heading home cop pulled me over said I went though the intersection recklessly ????? YHEA OK.... So I go to court..not about to pay thes tickets. The judge dropes the reckless driving but can't drop the driving at a unsafe speed becaus it did not mean I was speeding just that the cop detrmind my speed was unsafe???? WTF Ok so I did not bother to fight it futher becaus it would not have been worth it, to expensive to get a attny. And just think I am moving back to this great town tomarow....I do Like Media alot, just dont care for being harrased by the cops.

[This message has been edited by calmliquid (edited August 18, 2000).]
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Old 08-18-2000, 06:45 AM   #16
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Hey calm, I live right down the road in Wallingford and the local cops seem pretty harmless. Do you have an 800W subwoofer or purple headlights or anything provacative? I know there is one local cop who frequently hangs out at Baltimore Pike and 252 and writes tix to anyone who is in the intersection when the light turn yellow.

Anyway, welcome to the area.
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Old 08-18-2000, 08:12 AM   #17
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Have a Nice Day?

I've gotten a ticket a year for the last 4 years around Phoenixville, PA, for doing soemthing like 40 in 25 zones. In PA, only the state cops can use radar, hence the locals use VASCAR, ESP, etc.

I received no points for any of those tickets. The first one I received was in a very cheesy speedtrap, so I went to court with a handful of pictures showing that the speed limit sign was hidden by a bush. As soon as I walked in, the cop said, "I assume you're here for the points," and he and his buddy the judge immediately changed the violation to a no points type violation (so I paid up). The next three I received were written up as, "Failure to obey posted traffic signs," or something like that, which was not a moving violation, so no points, so of course I made my yearly ~$100 donations to the local fund.

In fact, twice the cops mentioned that they were giving me a no-points ticket. One time I responded that doing that must save them a lot of time in court. The cop didn't appreciate the comment.

By going to court, the officer will probably agree to reduce the ticket to a no points offense (be VERY polite). They just want their money. As was noted, reducing the violation barely reduces the fine.

btw, a small PA community (I forget where) was recently sued because they put the speedtrap too close to the sign which reduced the speed limit. There is a distance, defined by PA law, after a lowered speed limit, in which you cannot be fined for not slowing down. The town in question lost the suit, and had to reimburse years' worth of fines!
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Old 08-18-2000, 09:00 AM   #18
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hey, just be glad you don't live in Lake County IL. The cops here, especially in Vernon Hills, Libertyville, and Lincolnshire have nothing better to do than pull people over for bull**** tickets. I've gotten two in the last two years, fought them both, and won both. don't worry, there is a way. Just kill 'em with paperwork. Ask the court to order the production of certain documents that might prove your innocence. I asked for 3 months worth of ticket records for that specific officer, and the whole department. (that way you might be able to find a pattern in the ticket writing, I.E. if 80% of the tickets from all the PD's officers were dated Aug 17th, you'll be able to say that there was a quota due, and they were pulling over anybody. also ask for the officers training records, and any and all training used for pulling speeders over. Now, the prosecutor, who is a lazy **** and is hoping you plead guilty, is going to tell the judge he doesn't want to give you all that stuff. that's when you tell the judge, hey, this info could help prove my innocence. now, if the judge orders the prosecutor to give you all this stuff he's going to be pissed. So, this is when you bargain with him to get the lowest fine and no points on your license. He'll more than likely (as in my two cases) say okay, and you are home free. now, if the judge says, hey, you can't have that stuff, it's what's called Appealable error (my dad is a lawyer, incase anyone is wondering) and you can appeal the guilty verdict, since you were denied material that could have proved you innocent. Hope this helps guys!!!
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Old 08-18-2000, 10:06 AM   #19
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Jon.
nope no sytem no lights. I had a saturn sc1 at the time and was pretty much bone stock. I lived in media last year if you are in the area you may have seen me I have the 99 RBP 2.5 RS with the yellow grafix on it and Subaru banner acrost the top of the winshild. I had it about 5 months befour I moved to Glenolden. If you see me around waive me down.
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Old 08-18-2000, 10:24 AM   #20
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PA cops do suck. I can be frank here, because as a fireman, I'm even buddy-buddy with some in my borough.

The state cops are the only one's who can use radar. Why? I dunno..but that's the law.

As far as ESP goes, if it's anything like VASCAR, you should be able to at least get it reduced. VASCAR is VERY inaccurate. However, like it was previously mentioned that will probably only save you like $20. Your best bet is to probably be polite in court and hope they throw out the points. Then again, the points wont bug you that much unless you try switching insurance companies. They generally don't constantly keep checking your file for tickets and such. My insurance has NEVER gone up because of tickets. I've had to take the points test once already too, so you know I've gotten a few tickets.

Any other questions about PA's BS laws...check here: http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/75.html
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Old 08-18-2000, 11:43 AM   #21
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Yeah, although the wife thinks differently, I couldn't care less about the cash. I'm mainly concerned about the points. I'll be moving to MA in six months to two years, so I'll be switching insurance providers sometime. Points are my only concern.

Regarding the points reduction test you have to take after hitting six, is it the same stupid common sense stuff as the drivers test?

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Old 08-18-2000, 11:44 AM   #22
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Hey sean, not to worry, we have our own type of point system here in MA!!! don't think your'e gettin away from it!
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Old 08-18-2000, 11:47 AM   #23
Sean
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JGard18 - Sweet, so I don't have to worry about the availability of points in MA? Plenty to go around for everyone?

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Old 08-18-2000, 01:27 PM   #24
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Yep, it's true about the no-points bargain.
I most of the time speed 10-15 miles above speed limit (with caution) on the highway and I haven't been stop *knock on wood*. But one day leaving my home, just down the street there was 5-0 clocking speeds in a 25MPH zone. Since I just left my house, I didn't think anything of it. Before you know it the bastard pulls me over saying I was doing 37 on a 25. I told him "You must be kidding me..I just left my home...for me to do the 37 you claim I would've been at high revs in 1st or 2nd gear." The Jacka$$ wasn't hearing me...and I even said to look at my driver's license to see my address, so he knew I wasn't lying. N E wayz, I had to appear in court and the prosecuter said I could pay $150 and they'll waive the 2 points which included the court fee. A $44 ticket turned into $150. Ok, so I don't have the points on my record, but these A$$holes met their quota.
Sorry, you guys just opened a can of worms. I guess I had to vent again.

[This message has been edited by BigElm (edited August 18, 2000).]
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Old 08-18-2000, 02:05 PM   #25
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Sean, I would like to know these: "I know radar is inaccurate, laser is a joke and all the fun tricks,"
Would you mind sending me a private message on this?
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