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Old 10-24-2000, 07:34 PM   #1
NeedaScooby
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Have a Nice Day? Interesting info about rollovers...

Found this on Dateline on-line,
but before you look, I have a common sense question.

"Is a fully loaded SUV more or less likely to roll???"
http://www.msnbc.com/news/480570.asp

Impreza's are not listed, although the brat and justy are though .
You'd think that the NHSTA would be a bit more up to date.
Wait, never mind, they still think that the double nickle is as fast as one should drive on the highway
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Old 10-24-2000, 10:33 PM   #2
Frey
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Yeah, I watched that. Pretty interesting stuff. I was getting tired of the phrase "what the auto makers don't want you to know" though. I think they said that like 30 times in the first 10 minutes of the show
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Old 10-25-2000, 12:13 AM   #3
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Yea, and they acted like they had just discovered all of this stuff. We've known that SUV's are more prone to rollover for years. The fact that loading them up makes them more likely to roll over is just common sense. Instead they make a huge story about it, and act like they had discovered some previously unknown thing. Ha, dateline sux, its a show for the ignorate.
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Old 10-25-2000, 12:37 AM   #4
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Sometimes I wish the Media didnt exist as it does today...

(Yes, I know how undemocratic that sounds, but you get my point)
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Old 10-25-2000, 04:52 AM   #5
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Yeah, but look at it from the other way around....

The 'idiot' portion of the public think they are still safer in an SUV. They NEED a program like dateline to tell them something as blatenly obvious as this.

And the dealers that said..."oh yeah, you're safer in one of these than in a car."

How many other dealers are saying that? Can you smell quotas? That and...how many of those on the hidden camera still have their job? "When loaded down this SUV is more safer than empty" Huh?

And then there's the guy who had rolled and his brother was killed and others badly injured saying "I never would have bought this car if I though it was unsafe".

Guarenteed, this guy qualifies as one of the Idiots who fell for either a line of crap from the dealer or from his friends.

I think even though it is blatenly obvious to many, many people, there are those who have no freakin clue and buy these things based on 'status'. Those who buy for 'status' are also a little more apt to pay attention to the news too.

I think dateline, even though it was an obvious topic, needed to point that out.

One thing they could have made a greater point out of is the sticker that goes on the drivers visor warning of the possibility of a rollover. It's on all SUV's.

One thing for sure, those who were clueless may have been swayed to Subarus

--KC
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Old 10-25-2000, 05:09 AM   #6
WRC666
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"There is no roll-over factor in Fords"
This guy(salesguy) should be shot.
What the heck is a rollover factor?
Moron.
666
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Old 10-25-2000, 06:08 AM   #7
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I agree with KC. The general public is just ignorant about the facts regarding SUV's. Only a couple (or one - the M-class) meet passenger car safety standards.
And the poor guy that lost his brother(?). Why the heck was he riding in the cargo area? Seatbelts people!! According to the report last night, most people that die in rollovers aren't wearing seatbealts.
Some of those salespeople should go to jail.

When my wife was getting her OB, there was a guy in the showroom looking at the Forester. He asked if it is registered as an SUV. The salesman told him yes because he thought that's what the customer wanted to hear. When the salesguy walked away, I went over to the customer and told him it was not. He said, "That's what I thought. I don't want to pay more for registration and insurance."
Dennis

edit: added more

[This message has been edited by bluesubie (edited October 25, 2000).]
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Old 10-25-2000, 06:24 AM   #8
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The question Dateline didn't answer. Why do these things roll over? Most of the time driver error. I mean yeah the sales people are misleading but, people get these things and think they are invincable. Like Marge Simpson with the Cabalaro. The bottom line is people are driving them too fast and like somebody else said not wearing their seatbelts. Dateline could have had a better report if they would have took the angle as; If you are going to drive an SUV you need to realize that you have to be responsable, slow down and avoid sudden changes. They could have had some demonstration, gave driving tips or something. Instead of their big auto industry "expose'".



[This message has been edited by jaybird (edited October 25, 2000).]
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Old 10-25-2000, 06:50 AM   #9
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jaybird - They did mention driver error and other factors in the show last night. It was a quick blurb by a guy representing the SUV industry or something. They also showed an old Ford(?) video owner's manual that talked about rollovers.
Dennis
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Old 10-25-2000, 07:37 AM   #10
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Talking

jaybird, I think it was the "Canyonero"
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Old 10-25-2000, 07:51 AM   #11
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Amen on this topic. The american public in general are stupid media drivin cows!

it pains me to say this, but what other bunch of poeple would pay INCREDIBLY inflated prices for a vechile (read: truck with a top) that does not stop well, turn well, accelerate well, or react well to driver inputs. The ultimate display of this was that woman who said,

"I just feel safer up high so I can see the road"

This will be the same woman who will cut you off in her 7500 lb suburban because she has no idea at the size and length of her vehicle, because she is "so high" she never checks her mirrors.

You dont see SubiGal or SubiChick complaining about sitting high. And I would guaratee that they are better drivers than that airhead.

I started preaching this about 7 years ago, when the SUV craze hit. They will die out and wagons will make a huge come back. Why, because they handle, stop, and accelerate like cars! They are safer in crash tests. The only reason cars are considered unsafe now is because of the damned land barge SUV's around. Sure a well build mid size car, say a camry, will get obliterated against an Expedition. What the hell would not!

I feel deeply about the SUV craze that has brain washed the american people. Car companies will lie to the day they die. SUV's are cheap as hell to make and they usually have a 80% markup or so.

I will never own one. I am just to smart for that!

SCRAPPYDO
stephen
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Old 10-25-2000, 07:59 AM   #12
WRC666
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Thumbs down

80% markup is a bit high.
But a fully loaded Navigator brings 14k net profit home. It's still a freakin' F150.
But image is everything. Sorry to say that, but most americans are low selfesteem, highly selfcentered people. Look tough and have no clue about real life. Who cares what others think of you, they are OTHERS.
Trendy, what's that?
There is a "self esteem shop" on Telegraph road....
"1 lbs of selfesteem, please, I need to be cool on friday night", haha.
666
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Old 10-25-2000, 08:09 AM   #13
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Thumbs down

All the way from caveman times up until about the early 1900s, mankind lived and died by the law of the jungle. Put simply, you did something sufficiently stupid, and you died. Go ahead and taunt that herd of buffalo. Just don't expect anyone to try and save you when they stampede your sorry butt. Somewhere in the mid 1900s, society (or Government, maybe) decided that the "buffalo taunters" needed protection. So they gave us law upon law to protect those who can't/won't protect themselves (please note I'm not talking about the mentally disabled). Now we've got a lowest-common-denominator oriented society that ensures the foolish thrive (law$uit$) and the informed and those with common sense are repressed and even put in danger (why do I have two bombs in my dashboard?).

It's a cliche, but the gene pool needs some chlorine. I just wish it was in some form besides a motor vehicle.

------------
Josh Beach
World's Slowest Impreza Project
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Old 10-25-2000, 08:27 AM   #14
mav1c
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I'm sure we can all go on about the OBVIOUS misconceptions and misleading rants about how SUV's are "safer". And how so much of the American public is driven by status and ego. Many think..."the bigger, the better". and it IS true that you will be "safer" in an a collision between an Expedition and an Impreza, IF you're driving the Expedition, but I would bet that at least HALF of the accidents with SUV's could have been avoided if the person were driving a car that had better braking, handing, road feel, and overall vehicle dynamics. Of course that's just a theory, but if someone gets rear ended by an Explorer, do think that SAME accident would could have been avoided if they were driving a vehile with FAR shorter braking distances, say, an OB, or a Legacy GT, or a Volvo S70, or an Audi Avant, etc?

Ahhhh....I'm sure we ALL agree on this topic so I'll just stopped babbling now.
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Old 10-25-2000, 08:33 AM   #15
Fred Zaplitny
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You know if a family of sports cars raised an SUV, this might not be a problem! Sorry, I couldn't resist. I hate that stupid Mazda commercial. Quite possibly the worst car/truck commercial ever made. Do people really think that stupid Tribute is going to corner like a Miata?!
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Old 10-25-2000, 08:36 AM   #16
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I liked the warning label about making sudden turning moves. It said not to....well, duh, what are you supposed to do when that rock falls off the cliff or the moron who isn't looking backs out of his driveway in front of you...AND you're speeding, like so many SUV owners are prone to...well, that's not fair...all of us speed.

Even so, there's roads out there that have driveway's on to them that have speedlimit 50...waaaaay over the tippy speed for an SUV.

"I'd like to order another Subaru please"
With fries this time.

sjd
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Old 10-25-2000, 08:40 AM   #17
WRC666
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Thumbs up

Beachbum: Well said!
I always say that tolerance is for weenies.
Have an opinion and stand for it. The strong(head or physical) survive, the weak die. Who came up with the idea to protect the stupid?
Look at the harrassment stuff. We had to take a course for that, it basically says that the possibly offended makes the call, they decide if you offended them or not. Even if you use common sense and good manners according to your society's rules. Someone wants to get rid of you and claims harrassment.
My @ss!
666
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Old 10-25-2000, 10:09 AM   #18
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beachbum..

very well said.. (bowing deeply at the waist)

666, i agree with you as well...

nice to find some republicans.. hahaha

SCRAPPYDO
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Old 10-25-2000, 10:52 AM   #19
WRC666
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Wink

I didn't know that this is republicans way...
Don't like their 6 ***toys per household limiting approach.
=^)
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Old 10-25-2000, 11:28 AM   #20
AKGC8
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mav1c,

Actually you'd be safer in the Impreza than an Expedition. Reason being, the Impreza being a car has higher standards to meet. The Expedition doesn't have adequate crumple zones, due to the ladder frame design. The fact that its an SUV makes it more prone to rollover in an accident with another vehicle. Add that to the fact that its roof isn't designed to support it own weight in the event of a rollover, it gets pretty bad. I think it was MikeYox who had a lot of information about the reasons why ladder frame vehicles(basically 99% of all SUVs and trucks) are worse than unibody vehicles(cars, and very few SUV's, like the lexus one). Maybe he'll read this thread and elaborate on this.
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Old 10-25-2000, 11:55 AM   #21
8Complex

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Coming home from an autocross on Sunday, I'm coming down the highway at about 75 (20 over, but it was plenty open and my car was very capable). I saw a bunch of pretty blue and red lights and strobes up a 1/2 mile so I slowed down... turns out there was an SUV overturned against the barrier between directions of traffic. My guess is he went to get off on the ramp and decided not to and swerved a little wrong. Boom, wrecked.

Personally I think that if an SUV rolls over 1 out of every 20 tries in tests, it falis and should go back to the drawing board. Vehicle dynamics aren't that hard and you can get a good handling vehicle that is that large (though it is tough with the wheelbase) pretty easliy. The biggest problem is that they value storage space over stability, hence making the suspension sit lower and making ANY weight you add to the vehicle lay far above the roll center. Eventually you put enough weight in it to compare it to trying to balance a baseball bat on two fingers with the handle end down and the heavy end up.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd love to test a few of these out myself and roll them. I've always wanted to experience a roll.
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Old 10-25-2000, 01:02 PM   #22
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I'm not talking about stealing though, just renting. Make sure you pay the extra money for their insurance. That way, you won't have to pay for the damage done to the $30k dollar vehicle. Go out to an empty road, half way through a turn jerk the wheel in the opposite direction. Boom instant rollover. Then you just tell the police and the rental company that there was a deer, a rabbit, or something in the road.

Edit, lol, you were talking about the Say No To SUV's picture. I thought you meant feel free to steal and use SUV's wherever you want. I need to wake up today.

[This message has been edited by Eby (edited October 25, 2000).]
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Old 10-25-2000, 01:05 PM   #23
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8, stole it and will add it to my homepage.
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Old 10-25-2000, 01:06 PM   #24
WRC666
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Wink

A suby , maybe...
Had to avoid it.
Sorry officer.
LOL
666
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Old 10-25-2000, 01:23 PM   #25
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Ha, Dateline is a damn joke. The last thing the ignorant public needs is to be "educated" by a bunch of even more ignorant journalists. *** is up with their misleading and sometimes un-true statements...

"Jeep defended the CJs safety and it was never re-called. But before long, it was discontinued..." 1955-1986, last time I checked that wasn't "before long."
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