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Old 05-07-2000, 09:47 PM   #1
Drifter
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Question Celica GT-S?

I've been agonizing over two cars lately; the Impreza and the new Celica. I was just wondering if anyone had anything good/bad to say about them. Any comments, opinions, and suggestions are appreciated .


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Old 05-07-2000, 10:07 PM   #2
jhuang76
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I was in the exact same predicament 2 months ago! I feel the GT-S has a lot more power at the high end (definate improvement over last year) and a good overall handling. However, at low RPM, it wasn't that great. I drove the auto so I can't comment on the shifter. Oh, I feel that the interior is a little more refined (hey, it has trunk lights!!!).

However, the RS is much better for city driving. Great low end torque (since this is my first manual, it saved my ass from stalling a few times ). The exterior styling kicks the GT-S's a$$, IMHO. Plus, it's a few thousand dollars cheaper (so drop I can drop a few g's and beef up the RS to whoop the GT-S)! The only major pain in the a$$ thing for the RS is the slow transmission. Granted, I'm still learning, but when I'm upshifting, I've got to wait a split second before the syncros mesh (I'll try double clutching but still, that takes time). On my friends Accord, I couldn't shift fast enough to push the sucker! Overall, I've had my RS for 5 days and 400 miles and I love it!!!

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-07-2000, 10:09 PM   #3
SuperRS2.5
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The RS has a good after market.

The GTS has support from Toyota (TRD) so it is so easy to find aftermarket parts.

Both are really nice cars. I think I would go with the RS cause I like the styling more and use the money I saved on the RS to buy some mods.
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Old 05-08-2000, 05:01 AM   #4
Rick Buckner
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I myself like the stylin of the RS better. Interior wise the Celica GTS. Visibility wise the RS is easier to see out of. After driving my sisters GT there are a lot more blind spots in her car than in the RS.
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Old 05-08-2000, 05:07 AM   #5
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The RS rocks...
I am shocked...
no one mentioned the almighty AWD!!!
that's the best part of the car.

Also the suspension is great...
it is setup so that the car handles really well.. but it will also soak up some pretty vicious bumps with out jarring the car...
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Old 05-08-2000, 05:08 AM   #6
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The new GT-S is around the price range of an Acura Integra GS-R. The GT-S has MORE horsepower and still has a slower 0-60 time than the GS-R. But yes, the several thousand $ you save on th RS will buy some great mods!!
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Old 05-08-2000, 12:18 PM   #7
RallyGuy2k
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Actually that was my delema when shopping for my RS. I agree with was has been said...the GT-S has more hp...but at a atratospheric RPM. Unless you get the RPMs up there you'll be wondering why you bought it. Plus the front wheel drive thing...although I was impressed with handling considering the front wheel drive. But I chose the 2k RS and am soooo glad I did...I'm already sick of seeing so many Celicas.
BTW, Toyota ~is~ talking about an all wheel drive Turbo version within 2 years?! They might also be using the 3SGTE engine. (same as Celica All Trak and MR2 Turbo) More competition gentlemen...
Tre'
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Old 05-08-2000, 12:26 PM   #8
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I've been hering that some magazines don't like the shifters, it's too easy to get the wrong gear. It seems like a LOT of people are stuffing it in the wrong gear, and blowing up their engines. Not good.

ED
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Old 05-08-2000, 12:34 PM   #9
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Celica is definitely faster. But it takes high revs to gets the extra kick, just like the Hondas. So the RS FEELS more torquey. And the RS is faster, of course, from the jump. Celica has slightly better handling, but the FWD will make it much more unstable and unpredictable than AWD. AWD is always an easy "plus" for the RS. RS looks better. So the question comes down to what you plan on using it for.

Drag-racing on dry pavement: Celica
All other types of performance driving: Impreza
Appearance: Impreza
Fuel efficiency: Celica
Comfort: Impreza
Safety: Impreza
Family or other utility: Impreza
Rarity: Impreza
Modifications: Celica is too new, so the Impreza gets this one, but the Celica will catch up with it within a year because of its numbers
Price: Even
Value: Impreza wins because of AWD

Overall, gotta still go with the Impreza RS. The Celica seems to be becoming a "chick car". I've seen 10-15 of these on the street already, all driven by teenage/college girls. I'm sure they all have the base model though, with an automatic. Hardly a comparison.
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Old 05-08-2000, 12:49 PM   #10
greenguy
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Angry

Have you actually sat in one of those things? Oh My God, you have no visibility to your sides or behind you. I'm tall 6'2" and head room, well there is none. And yes it is a "Chick" car but also a chick magnet
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Old 05-08-2000, 05:46 PM   #11
ASNG
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Drifter,
Here is a previous post of mine!
Hope it helps...

OK guys/gals,
I just test drove the new 2000 Celica GT-S.

First off, the car has a huge label hanging off the dash telling you that "this is a high performance vehicle", and that you should be between 2000-4000 rpm for the first 1000 miles. Since I'm not into killing cars during break-in, especially if it is going to be someone else's, I had to request the managers "demo" car, because it was the only one with over 1000 miles on it, and I was not going to waste my time unless I could drive the car to it's limits....though that's not exactly what I said to the dealer...he-he!

So there I had it, high output VVTi engine, 6-speed manual, and NO sales-person for the ride!!...Whoo-hoo!!

The 1.8 VVTi in the Celica seamed to have pretty decent low and mid range, i.e. in non-VVTi mode, when compared to a similar V-TEC Honda power plant. In addition, when switching to VVTi mode, at 6000 rpm, the transition is less dramatic than with V-TEC, and not only because of the better low end.

At WOT, wide-open-throttle, in both VVTi and non-VVTi mode, the engine makes a relatively loud "intake" sound. It reminded me of a Prelude or an Integra GS-R with an intake kit, but to my supprise it was a less "refined" sound, especially coming from a stock setup. Although it is something that I could defintely live with!

The stronger low end certainly helped off-the-line acceleration, but it still seemed to take it's time getting up to that magical 6000 rpm mark, but was not as strong as an RS!
Unlike some reviews that have described a sort of abrupt transition, I did not feel any power "cut-off" when going to VVTi mode. I think they may have confused it with a slower throttle response, that results in a kind of "jerk" when shifting, since the engine does not get up to speed before you release the clutch. I just had to adjust my shifting style and no more "jerking", that was it!

Above 6000 it pulls nicely, but again, with a less dramatic transition than a V-TEC, although it still has no V8 or Eclipse Turbo feel to it. But with a V-TEC enigne atleast, power comes on around 5000 rpm, wich gives you 50% more usable "high-power" range than the VVTi kicking in at 6000 rpm.
Even with the 6-speed and boucing of the 8000+ rpm rev limiter, I still found it kind of hard to keep it above 6000 when shifting through a few tight and twisties. I would like to see that VVTi mode drop to at least 5500 rpm to make the setup a little more user friendly!

General road feel is awesom! Tight steering, firm suspension and minimal body roll. Going through fast and smooth "sweepers" it felt solid and neutral.
Excellent brakes!!...oh please let there be a newly designed brake system on the new Impreza, that is atleast half as good as the ones on the new Celica!!!....

However, and I mean a HUGE "however", when things are not very smooth and "sweepy", the inherent characteristics of a stiff FWD setup start to show, i.e., I realised, again, why I love my RS so much!!

As part of my daily "commute", there is a 1 mile section, that starts with a 2nd gear "right" and "left" off of a main road from 5th gear, opening up to a 3rd and 4th straight, followed by a 3 "right" 2 "left" "S", opening and tightening to a 2 right, followed by a "big-jump" over RRX in 4th.
Anyways, the only place better to "test" would be a race track.

So, pushing the Celica through this "course", I found that it was quite composed when entering hard and tight turns, but powering out was disappointing with all kinds of inside wheel spin and heavy plowing understeer when exiting under full throttle. Not to mention when the pavement gets rough, putting power down and composure becomes an issue, a problem only compounded by the narrow power band above 6000 rpm!
I would smoke any Celica on roads like this with my RS, and not just because I know the road.

The dash is probably a love-hate situation. I tend to like it. At 6'5" the "cockpit" was borderline for me! I could find an OK position but my head was slightly tilted into the sunroof cut-out, and the excessively laid back position was definitely not my style.
General visability was also a concern, with rear visability being quite poor. Mind you I haven't been in many cars that had better visability than the RS, even with the rear wing!

All and all it's a nice car, but if this is the best Toyota has to offer in performace in the year 2000 with a redesigned car, they better start running back to their drawing boards!! The Celica maybe marginally better than it's competition NOW, but in a year or two??...and I wasn't even thinking of the next generation Impreza...he-he!!

Bottom line,
I was very happy to get back into my RS after the test drive. And re-driving my "route" made me forget any thought I may have had of trading my Scooby!!

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Old 05-08-2000, 11:17 PM   #12
Drifter
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Talking

Thanks for all the input guys . I really appreciate it.

I'm still sorta wavy still on the two since I tried sitting in the Celica and I _really_ like the feel and look of the interior. I also think that the exterior styling is pretty much the same to me; I like them both. Price is not too much of a factor since my family has a good friend at the local Toyota dealership that can get us a pretty competitive price for the GT-S. I tried taking a test drive in the Celica last Saturday but didn't get to really open it up since the salesman that was in the car with me at the time insisted we stay on a specific course (which was one lap around the block ). I can't really make a decision yet since I haven't actually sat in an Impreza yet. I'm going to stop by the Toyota dealership this coming Saturday again and hopefully get to go on a test drive alone in the car and also stop by the Subaru dealership to also to try out the Impreza. Hopefully all will turn out well and I may lose my Toyota loyalties... . Pretty much the left side of my brain tells me to go with the Impreza (not solely; I _love_ the scoops and styling) while my right tells me to go with the Celica... I'll keep you all posted.


Drifter

*EDIT* Just fixing some stupid mistakes...

[This message has been edited by Drifter (edited May 08, 2000).]
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Old 05-08-2000, 11:37 PM   #13
Drifter
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Arrow

Just wanted to add the fact that I need a car for the summer for transportation so I can't afford to wait for any future models... that's why I want to go for the Celica; it's new for this year so I don't have to worry about it going out of style for awhile.... I'd hate to get an Impreza now just to find out I could have gotten a newly styled (may be FIed?) Impreza had I waited until September.
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Old 05-09-2000, 01:54 AM   #14
HomerJay
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Wink

Funny thing, those were the two cars I was debating between before I bought my beloved RS. First of all, decide if you live near snow, participate in any snow activity. That's should make your decision already, unless Toyota comes out with an all-trac. The RS is a lot cheaper and comes with everything standard. On the Toyota, even the spoiler is an option. The TRD parts are very good, but priced very high. The GT-S has absolutely no low end grunt. You're smiling when the tach jumps past 6000, but not till then. The rear seats on the celica are even smaller. They just raised the price. Interior is nice, but a bit sparse. I think the exterior is awesome. You get Toyota quality, but it is also an all new car and has problems already. I used to belong to a celica club and they talk about some of the problems there, so you might want to go check out that site. If your looking for performance, it won't be as good as a Type R but it is pretty good and easier and more comfortable to drive. I hope all this helps. Oh yeah, don't forget, AWD! AWD!
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Old 08-09-2000, 09:54 AM   #15
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yo Drifter.. so wat car did u end up gettin? heh.. funny u ask that question in the impreza board.. ask the same question in the celica board.. heh so u got both ways.. but at least the responses arent AS biased like if u go to the honda/acura boards..where they go off.. anyways.. dang this post is hella old already.im just rpelying now cause ij ust registered..oh well.. it seems so hard to find a stick impreza from what i hear.. and now that all this rumor of the wrx is coming.if u dont want a celica..wait till that comes out.. about styling..yea goes either way.. i love the styling on both cars.. the interior u heard it from the other people.. the celicas interior is nice.. the impreza has the nice white tach.. and i persoally thing toyota makes the best seats.. even in my friends old corolla gts.. the seats are still comfortable.. =) as for performance..yea the impreza willt take off from the start..but once the celi gets going and hits that vvtl-i..now the price.. i got my celica gts for about 22k fully loaded out the door tax everything.. i dont know how much it costs for the impreza.. oh yea.. it does have that AWD OoOoOoOo thats good..well either way youl enjoy both cars.. just dont get a honduh honda acura etc u know.. keep it real..peace

EuGeNiLe
2000 Toyota Celica GTS 6 Speed Absolutely Red
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Old 08-09-2000, 11:50 AM   #16
Drifter
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I ended up choosing the Impreza, of course . I don't regret the choice at all. The torque and the AWD easily took me over.

- Eugene
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Old 08-09-2000, 02:00 PM   #17
Bob O
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Impreza: AWD, Cheaper, Nearly as fast, Better styling (IMHO), DIRT (how many GTS's do you see doing doughnuts in parking lots?), not as many on the road, no cheap gt version to mistake it for, more parts depending where you look, TORQUE.
Celica: Cool styling (just not as cool as the RS), fast, neat interior. Would have liked a better feeling shifter, hard to find the gates (of course the RS takes some getting used to as well), the blind spots are horrible in the car can't see ***** out the rear, non-dirt only car, more expensive.

I think you get "more" for the money with the RS. What "really" is toyota giving you for that extra cash? Seems mostly like goddies (refined interior) and 20 extra hp (at the high end of the rev band, I would like to see dyno pulls of both car's engines). With the savings you can setup the RS the way you like it, and most likely it will be faster than the GTS. Plus DIRT, did I mention DIRT?

I have no problem shifting fast, I have more of a problem piddling around town, but this is my first manual. Made my choice BRP 00 since January.

Bob


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Old 08-09-2000, 02:04 PM   #18
Mizen
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Boxerman - HAHA! Yeah, I guess if I really had that much cash to drop I would have though about getting a nicer car in a higher performance class... plus less garage space needed...

new M3 should be tight... guy in the next cube can't stop drooling about it...
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Old 08-09-2000, 02:14 PM   #19
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I don't see where the tough decision is.
A. the Celica is ugly
B. the RS has a quicker 0-30 time
C. the Celica only beats the RS by like .4 seconds in 0-60
D. the brakes are better in the Celica, but the Impreza is easier to control
E. I don't know what kind of crack people are smoking saying that the Celica handles better. But I want some of that stuff!!!
F. One mod to the RS -> Rear Sway Bar <- and it will be comparable to the BMW M3, if not better [comparable in the handling aspect]
G. Toyota makes a good car, but SOA makes excellent cars [except for the interior]

Hmm....that's Impreza 5....Celica 1....looks pretty simple to me. How often will you get to take advantage of the Celica's power since it's all up above 6000 RPM's?
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Old 08-09-2000, 03:11 PM   #20
EuGeNiLe GTS
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whoa finally a hater.. i thought there wasn't any haters here oh well..

love the comments..

"I don't see where the tough decision is.
A. the Celica is ugly
B. the RS has a quicker 0-30 time
C. the Celica only beats the RS by like .4 seconds in 0-60
D. the brakes are better in the Celica, but the Impreza is easier to control
E. I don't know what kind of crack people are smoking saying that the Celica handles better. But I want some of that stuff!!!
F. One mod to the RS -> Rear Sway Bar <- and it will be comparable to the BMW M3, if not better [comparable in the handling aspect]
G. Toyota makes a good car, but SOA makes excellent cars [except for the interior]
Hmm....that's Impreza 5....Celica 1....looks pretty simple to me. How often will you get to take advantage of the Celica's power since it's all up above 6000 RPM's?"

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Old 08-09-2000, 03:16 PM   #21
Schwabe
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I also prefer the RS for all before mentioned reasons, especially because I don't need to keep the revs way up there for the car to move.
But someone explain to me, why would I care which car has better 0-30mph performance? Talk about totally irrelevant! OK, I can run higher tire pressure than you! So there!
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Old 08-09-2000, 03:30 PM   #22
willieho
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Hey whassup Eugene, it's Will, I met you at parking lot to Dave & Busters a few weeks ago.

I'm actually looking to pick up a 2.5RS (not sure used or brand new), as a 2nd car, for trips to Tahoe in the snow, as well as modding the car and maybe (likely will) Rallycross it. I like the 2.5RS a lot and my reasons for wanting one is not because I don't like my Celica, but because I don't want to drive my Celica to Tahoe and die as my car careens off a cliff because of the snow covered roads. But I'm waiting until whenever the Impreza Turbo arrives to make my decision, cuz if it's just too dope, then I'm all over that!

As for the comparisons, the Celica and Impreza are often lumped together in the same class, but IMHO, they shouldn't be. I also don't agree with those who assume Subarus are merely for parsomonious backwoods residents of Vermont who don't wish to purchase SUVs.
The reasons I wanna get a Scooby is because of the AWD, usable rear seat and 4 doors. The Celica is an uncompromising sports coupe that can give Integra Type Rs a run for their money. When I test-drove the 2.5RS, I was impressed with the torque and pull down low, and it felt stronger than the Eclipse GT which has 200 ft-lbs of torque, but the power did feel like it tapered off a bit soon, compared to the GT-S. The suspension felt a bit on the soft side as well. I dunno how to explain it, but the GT-S just feels fast all the time and it's a total blast to drive.

Styling is completely subjective to tastes. I like how both cars look a lot.

I just wish that we could get the dope turbo'd rally'd out Focus, WRC Corolla, and Peugeout rally cars!!! Hell, I'll take a Lancer Evo VI with that too.

will
2000 Liquid Silver
Toyota Celica GT-S 6-Speed

[This message has been edited by willieho (edited August 09, 2000).]
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Old 08-09-2000, 04:10 PM   #23
HomerJay
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Hey Willieho, there is an autox in the bay area this weekend at Golden Gate park. Go to BAIC for more info
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Old 08-09-2000, 06:11 PM   #24
EuGeNiLe GTS
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Cool

yeah!! wassup Will.. finally another 2000 celica owner in here. i thought iw as the only one.. yeah man.. no doubt.. i like the impreza.. why else would i be in here heh.. but u should maybe consider waiting till the WRX comes if wat everyone is saying is true about it coming REAL SOON.. yea i drove my friends impreza one time.. cause i didnt know how to park haha anyways..u dont need to know bout that.. yea lots of torque.. he beat a mustang.. a few days ago.. and he has an auto.. and the mustang was a stick.. ill post the story here..since he doesnt.. now will which one was ur celica..heh.. they were all silver at the meet at great mall.. except for fourigs and mine i think hehe..

later

EuGeNiLe
2000 Toyota Celica GTS 6 Speed Absolutely Red
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Old 08-09-2000, 06:23 PM   #25
willieho
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HomerJay: where in Golden Gate Park will the Rallycross be? I didn't find any specific information about it in the BAIC forum.

Eugene: there were 2 silvers, mine and Cagefreak's. His was the one with the girls in it, TRD suspension, and TRD exhaust. Mine just has the Eibach lowering springs on it. Mine was next to SeanBlader's car (carbon blue with clear fuel lid).
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