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Old 04-05-2004, 05:21 PM   #1
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Have a Nice Day? I am so confused...........

I was going to buy a turbo kit that was like 90% complete because I got a great deal on it. But now that I see how much little stuff its going to take to complete it its beginning to seem not so worth it. Should I go through the hassle of putting together my own kit or should I just buy a complete kit for alot more money? Alternatively, should I just buy a WRX motor and swap it in?

Better yet, which route have you guys chosen and why?
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Old 04-05-2004, 07:28 PM   #2
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i chose my route, cuz I wanted to get the pieces slowly and do it on a kind of step-by-step basis. When I started this project, the link wasn't included in the more popular turbo kits (ludespeed). I ended up buying a tec2 and installed that first and worked from there.
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Old 04-05-2004, 09:29 PM   #3
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:13 PM   #4
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I would preffer go with the RS-t...but adam will tell you otherwise
if the engine you have was junk like an EJ18 then I would say to get a swap...
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Old 04-06-2004, 07:31 AM   #5
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If I could do it over again, I would do a swap. Its reliable, smog legal, and there is a huge aftermarket for it if you decide to get crazy.

-Marc
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Old 04-06-2004, 07:49 AM   #6
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be a man and get a sti shortblock, screw a swap. If you already have the engine man and the necessary turbo parts for your rs, a shortblock would make it that much easier, much better than a swap I think. Daily driven reliability and beating WRX swaps all day. In my opinion of course
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Old 04-06-2004, 10:39 AM   #7
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I bought a kit, changed all the piping (both intake/exhaust) because it was a very cheap kit.....now I have a used EJ22-T shortblock in my garage waiting for my summer job

I think you'll have much more money in doing a turbo kit and then a shortblock to get the reliability that could be had with just doing a WRX swap. Although some have claimed to turbo their cars using WRX parts and keeping it on a really small budget, so I guess its all in your planning/patience for parts. Whatever method you'll have a very fun car when your done


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Old 04-06-2004, 03:30 PM   #8
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got a EJ22 shortblock, I will be stuck between the STI and the EJ22 when the fork in the road comes. Is the EJ22 that much better? I know about the closed deck, but I imagine you lose a little low end because of the displacement differences.
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Old 04-06-2004, 04:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureSTIer
got a EJ22 shortblock, I will be stuck between the STI and the EJ22 when the fork in the road comes. Is the EJ22 that much better? I know about the closed deck, but I imagine you lose a little low end because of the displacement differences.
Unless you already have a turboed RS with a full stand alone ecu I wouldnt swap blocks. Its cheeper to do a wrx swap and later, if you need more, you can get a STi short or ej22 short.

The ej22(this should realy get pistons on wrx heads 7.7 CR) > ej207 > ej257.
ej22 questions are answered in this thread.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=ej22
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Old 04-06-2004, 04:17 PM   #10
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Man, this is turning into a split, it looks like either way its just going to cost a **** load of money
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Old 04-06-2004, 07:17 PM   #11
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a shortblock will be cheaper I THINK in the long run. First you have to locate a GOOD JDM swap motor, then swap the damn thing in if you are technically capable or pay the 1k or more labor for somebody to do it. If you go the shortblock route, you can get a shortblock at the most 1500, mate it up use the same ECU if you would like then go standalone later on. To me it seems more daily drivable and cheaper, but that's just me.
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Old 04-06-2004, 07:20 PM   #12
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I say get the RS turbo'd...this allows you to SLOWLY invest more money into the car, vs. doing the swap. intial start up is less on the turbo kit.
besides I don't know many engine shops that let you to make payments
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Old 04-06-2004, 07:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureSTIer
a shortblock will be cheaper I THINK in the long run. First you have to locate a GOOD JDM swap motor, then swap the damn thing in if you are technically capable or pay the 1k or more labor for somebody to do it. If you go the shortblock route, you can get a shortblock at the most 1500, mate it up use the same ECU if you would like then go standalone later on. To me it seems more daily drivable and cheaper, but that's just me.


Not cheeper.

You cant use an RS ecu with the sti short block...

An ej257 swap is going to need a turbo, pipes, i/c, injectors, a stand alone ecu, someone to pull your heads off and slap them on the new block, hours worth of tuning, hope there is a good one around you, road or dyno(dyno is going to cost a lot more).

A wrx swap is going to be $7 to 10k and ej257 swap is going to be over $10k. A built block(cobb, axis, i-speed) is $10 to $15k easy.... Unless you already have a turboed RS and an ecu that can be tuned.
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Old 04-06-2004, 07:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureSTIer
a shortblock will be cheaper I THINK in the long run. First you have to locate a GOOD JDM swap motor, then swap the damn thing in if you are technically capable or pay the 1k or more labor for somebody to do it. If you go the shortblock route, you can get a shortblock at the most 1500, mate it up use the same ECU if you would like then go standalone later on. To me it seems more daily drivable and cheaper, but that's just me.
so thats 1500 for the shortblock with probably 1000 dollars worth of labor, so thats 2500 add turbo kit for another 4000 puts you at 6500 plus tuning and what not puts you at 7500. From I-speed you get a usdm wrx motor with ecu all installed for about 6650. Now, especially for ursine since he is in california, your car is smog legal and with the almost 1000 dollars saved you could get a reflash and turboback which would probably get you pretty close to a 12 second quater mile.

-Marc
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:17 PM   #15
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1000 for labor??!!! it's called do it yourself...ursine has the buddies with the know how...plus the turbo kit will total maybe 2000 with everything!!!
That is the hook-up and the catch!!
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs


Not cheeper.

You cant use an RS ecu with the sti short block...

An ej257 swap is going to need a turbo, pipes, i/c, injectors, a stand alone ecu, someone to pull your heads off and slap them on the new block, hours worth of tuning, hope there is a good one around you, road or dyno(dyno is going to cost a lot more).

A wrx swap is going to be $7 to 10k and ej257 swap is going to be over $10k. A built block(cobb, axis, i-speed) is $10 to $15k easy.... Unless you already have a turboed RS and an ecu that can be tuned.
That is all completely wrong. The RS ECU will run the ej257 block, infact the RS ECU will run any block, it doesn't make a difference to the ECU which block is in the car. Swapping shortblocks will be considerably cheaper than doing a WRX swap, as there is no new wiring involved and you keep all your stock sensors.
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:23 PM   #17
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As people said earlier, with a shortblock swap you can do it slowly so to speak, buy the parts according to budget. We all know a RS can be turboed if tuned right. Start off with a stand alone and a decent turbo, then when the money comes around get a shortblock, swap it in, and turn the boost up and retune. I plan (knock knock) on purchasing a turboed RS so a shortblock swap would be much cheaper than a motor swap because all the components are already there, just need a shortblock and a retune and boom. A lot easier said than done, but to me a lot easier than a motor swap. Only thing you would need is to weld the coolant line on the STI block. It all comes down to the person I guess, if you like to shell out money for labor and don't do the work yourself then yeah a WRX swap would be better especially being in Cali, if you do a lot of work yourself then do the shortblock swap. Another big factor is power goals. I was on the whole motor swap band wagon until I saw how cheap and easier a shortblock swap would be. A STI shortblock swap on a RS with a good tune and around 15 lbs of boost will probably put you to about 350ish to the wheels, daily driven too. It all comes down to your pocket and what YOU want to do. We can't make the decisions for ya, just try to help you lead the way. Just from reading posts here I have got enough info to make my own mind up slowly.

Last edited by FutureSTIer; 04-06-2004 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:29 PM   #18
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I have done a WRX swap and am already planning a block swap...in my list of upgrades...more displacement does mean more power
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:30 PM   #19
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hey IF i get my turboed RS, we can do the shortblock swap together, you'll do all the work and I'll provide the beer. :-P
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by lotusTT
That is all completely wrong. The RS ECU will run the ej257 block, infact the RS ECU will run any block, it doesn't make a difference to the ECU which block is in the car. Swapping shortblocks will be considerably cheaper than doing a WRX swap, as there is no new wiring involved and you keep all your stock sensors.


Ok, maybe I should have said. You cant safely use and RS ecu. But that in no way makes anything else I said wrong....

Quote:
Originally posted by Homemade WRX
1000 for labor??!!! it's called do it yourself...ursine has the buddies with the know how...plus the turbo kit will total maybe 2000 with everything!!!
That is the hook-up and the catch!!

Thies are very conseritive numbers.
$1500 block.
$2k for turbo and pipes(maybe I/C).
$1k in random parts that will pop up during the swap.
$500 for someone to do the headswap.(I dont know any of the guys in SD that have done a head swap. Even the AW crew just does full motors.)
Its still not in the car, you still dont have any way to tune for the bigger injectors.
$1k easy for the tune.(4 hours worth of dyno time; pann the only place in SD with a 4 wheel dyno. )
Whos going to tune it? Easy 100 bucks an hour there.

$5k and you still dont have a fuel pump, injectors, timeing belt, gaskets, hoese and lines that will need to get replaced, shipping, lost time on the insall...



If you buy the wrx swap you wont have half of the headache that come along with doing something like this to your car. Trust me, or dont I dont care, takeing your motor and getting 50 to 100 more hp out off it is more of a headache then its worth. When there is such a cheep and easy option its crazy to turbo your car.
Ask most of the old school guys. They moved on because of the headaches that come with something like this.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=511424
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:41 PM   #21
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1k for serious random parts? Hmmm... I am not saying that is crap, but from MY understanding (which isn't much) that a shortblock swap consist of a buying the block, maybe some new head gaskets if you would like. And walla, who said anything about a head swap? I don't know the local of Cali and where all your tuners are but to me it's seems like you have many more than the East Coast. I got Turbo XS which is 4 hours away and Rallispec which is 5-6 hours away and that's it. I thought you guys had a bunch that could do a good tune and not for 1k
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Another big factor is power goals. I was on the whole motor swap band wagon until I saw how cheap and easier a shortblock swap would be. A STI shortblock swap on a RS with a good tune and around 15 lbs of boost will probably put you to about 350ish to the wheels, daily driven too. It all comes down to your pocket and what YOU want to do. We can't make the decisions for ya, just try to help you lead the way. Just from reading posts here I have got enough info to make my own mind up slowly.
With wrx heads, a mild port and the better cam on the same ej257 you will see better power. Easyer and cheeper. And with out half the headaches. Also closing that second breather may not be such a good idea.
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureSTIer
1k for serious random parts? Hmmm... I am not saying that is crap, but from MY understanding (which isn't much) that a shortblock swap consist of a buying the block, maybe some new head gaskets if you would like. And walla, who said anything about a head swap? I don't know the local of Cali and where all your tuners are but to me it's seems like you have many more than the East Coast. I got Turbo XS which is 4 hours away and Rallispec which is 5-6 hours away and that's it. I thought you guys had a bunch that could do a good tune and not for 1k
The heads have to come off your old block and on to the new one... And nothing is as easy as walla.

The only tuner in socal that I would trust with something like this is mike from spdusa.com. Other then that I-speed is a few hours north.
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:53 PM   #24
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I'm saying all this because I might luck out and get a pre turboed RS, so all I need is the shortblock. The situation here is one person's opinion to another. You get a stock WRX swap ok fine, I turbo my RS without any shortblock and I'm beating your WRX swap because of displacement. I think all of us can agree on that right? To each is own, do what you please, spend YOUR money. I am choosing to buy another RS because I love the body style, I love getting out of my car and looking back at it because honestly those things are really good looking cars. I am not the only person who thinks so, a lot of other non subaru people think the same when they used to come up to me and say nice car man. To me the new WRX and the bug eyes are just plain how do I say this nicely but ass ugly. You bite your tongue and buy it because it's factory turboed. I wouldn't go as far as saying I wouldn't buy one but come on, those things are ugly. I vowed to myself the first thing I would do if one fell in my lap was get a body kit because bone stock, those things are plain ugly. a RS on the other hand doesn't need a kit, a kit most of the time makes it uglier. It's all in the eye of the beholder really, if you want cheap power get a Honda, we all know and I have first hand experience because my roommate is a Honda guy that Hondas are great for cheap power, easier to turbo because parts are dirt cheap. Making power in a Subaru is not cheap and the people that press on with modding for power know that and deal with it.
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Old 04-06-2004, 08:54 PM   #25
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500 bucks to take heads off a block? Maybe I don't factor that in because well I don't plan on paying somebody to do manual labor on my car. Rewiring the car for a motor swap yeah, but a shortblock swap no. Just my two cents
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