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Old 10-23-2000, 08:05 AM   #1
Sean
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Wink North/South Smackdown, Imprezas and fences don't mix, damage shots.

Posting this in a separate thread because the image is quite large. Basically, it was a compilation of everything that could go wrong did. My tires picked up some sand in the far corner of the course, the pavement was cold and slippery (55 degrees, no sun yet) and my brakes went soft when I hit the brakes going into the slalom.

The ABS kicked in, I got about 20 feet off course then spun sideways. Not fun. Ohwell. Looks like I'll be upgrading to a MY99 RS or STi front end. Not how I wanted to spend the afternoon, but I ran afterwards anyway, albeit slow.



Trunkmonkey is here! There is no cone...
Sean Sosik-Hamor < sean@trunkmonkey.com >
Epinions Automotive Reviews by `Sean
47STS MY98 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport
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Old 10-23-2000, 08:30 AM   #2
North Ursalia
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From the looks of the pic and the sound of the story, it looks like the fence came out the loser!

Brian

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/northu...reza/index.htm
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Old 10-23-2000, 08:45 AM   #3
llonman
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Ouch... Sorry to hear about your OBS. I also have a 97 OBS that I auto-x, and I like your front plate..:--) I do Cisco too.. Got a question for you. What size and brand of tires do you use to auto-x. I ran a few events this year with Dunlop D60's in the stock size and was only about 2 seconds behind the faster RS's but the tires rolled over alot and were quite "feathered" at the edges. After I install my WRX wagon springs and AGX's I was thinking of some Kuhmos in the 205/55/15 size. I will post some pics in a few weeks after I do the supsension work.
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Old 10-23-2000, 08:47 AM   #4
Sean
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Relatively speaking, there was more damage to the fence than the car. Now, the car will be more expensive to fix...but the fence came out worse. My underwear, on the other hand...after all, that is a 10' drop into the river right there on the other side of the fence.

Trunkmonkey is here! There is no cone...
Sean Sosik-Hamor < sean@trunkmonkey.com >
Epinions Automotive Reviews by `Sean
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Old 10-23-2000, 08:49 AM   #5
Sean
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Well, the tires were actually the problem. I'm running Pirelli P8000 Vizzolas with the aquatread down the middle. They're awesome on the street but leave a lot to be desired on the AutoX. They're general purpose high performance all season tires so I really shouldn't be AutoXing on them because I'm quickly finding their limits. I do believe that I'll wait until I get real tires before I do my next event.

Trunkmonkey is here! There is no cone...
Sean Sosik-Hamor < sean@trunkmonkey.com >
Epinions Automotive Reviews by `Sean
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Old 10-23-2000, 08:58 AM   #6
8Complex

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Sean - Sorry to hear... Noone ever told you what to do in a skid in the Impreza? Just nail the gas and it bites and goes forward.

BTW, glad to hear you didn't end up taking your scooby for a swim.

Oh and what kinda course is that? Unless that is a slalom cone, I don't see where it was going (and it looks like it was early since there wasn't any marks on the ground yet...).
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Old 10-23-2000, 09:34 AM   #7
Gambit
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It looks like a poorly designed course.... were you supposed to turn towards the left of the picture after the slalom? If so it's a poorly designed course as alot of newbies would run wide and hit the fence (no not you). You're just bad luck. I dunno.

Anyways go git yourself a new bumper. An Sti ones or something...
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:19 AM   #8
Tony
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Gambit,
As one of the people who designed that course I can tell you that it was safe and within SCCA regulations for course design. If it wasn't we wouldn't have kept running on the course for the rest of the day (this happened early in the first of four heats). It's tough to tell from the picture where the course is going. If you look at the three nearest cones, they are the first three cones of the slalom and the course is going from left to right and keeps on going to the right further away from the fence. At no point would a car normally be heading in the direction of the fence. What happened with Sean was unfortunate (and very unusual for a Philly event) and I can't help but feel parially responsible. I think if there was any fault in the course design it was in the fact that the slalom was a reducing slalom and more prone to catch people out than other elements of the course. From the looks of the skid marks and Sean's comments it looks like Sean had overcooked the slalom and the car started to slide sideways and then nailed the brakes after he crossed the centerline of the slalom when he realized he was heading for the fence. He said later that the brakes weren't doing much of anything at this point. I'm assuming the ABS was useless since all of his tire grip was holding the lateral forces and there was none left for braking grip. So his car continues it's arc and can't stop in time for the fence. It's was just a very strange thing for a car to lose control in a slalom and veer out perpendicular to the course for such a distance. Most cars losing control in a slalom stay within 10-15ft of the slalom centerline.

I can say that Sean is a decent driver and a very good sport for not letting this phase him and he even finished up the rest of his runs. Hope to see you at the Winter series.

Tony
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:26 AM   #9
Sean
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8C - Yeah, I know to hit the gas when I know there's open space in front of me. However, when you're running at the end of a pier the last thing on your mind is hitting the gas.

Gambit - The course is actually quite well laid out. I'm not putting the pic here because it's 1MB, but here is another angle (link below). The slalom goes away from the fence and the closest point to the fence is 90 feet. As the slalom progresses it moves away from the fence. At the end of the slalom, the pivot cone is about 70 to 100 feet from the fence.

Here's a direct link to the image:
http://www.trunkmonkey.com/tmp/20001...amdenautox.jpg

It was just bad luck and a combination of driver error, cold tar, loose sand, bad tires and an ABS hiccup that sent me sideways.

Edit - Grammar...and yes, Tony, I'll be at the Winter series. No fault of yours, don't worry. Driver error and a bunch of other stuff leading up to it. Worn brake pads, cold tires, street tires not designed for AutoX, etc.

Trunkmonkey is here! There is no cone...
Sean Sosik-Hamor < sean@trunkmonkey.com >
Epinions Automotive Reviews by `Sean
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[This message has been edited by Sean (edited October 23, 2000).]
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:42 AM   #10
Gambit
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Ahh my bad. I thought that's the full course. duh....
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:53 AM   #11
ColinL
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I've never done anything like that at all, but I have Kenny-ed a few cones while riding ABS into oblivion.

My take is that ABS should not be trusted for that stomp-the-brakes-and-steer stuff they like to advertise. What happens if when you try is that you stomp the brakes and go into terminal understeer. If you want to stop fast-- even if you're off course-- keep the wheel straight and THEN ride ABS.

Once terminal understeer starts, the best way to make it stop-- provided you have enough room -- is to straighten the wheel.
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:54 AM   #12
Greg I
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In what way did the ABS fail? That's really unusual.

Greg.
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:20 AM   #13
Tony
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I don't beleive the ABS "failed" per se. The ABS just prevents wheel lockup and therefore better braking. When you're cornering and using most of your traction to corner and then hit the brakes even the slightest brake pressure is going to induce lockup and so the ABS reduces the brake pressure. The ABS was working in that it gave the car the best braking it could but since most of the traction was being used for cornering it seemed like it wasn't doing anything.

Tony
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:24 AM   #14
ImprezaRS2000
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Have a Nice Day?

So are you going to send the trunk monkey back to driving school??? He should've helped you there...
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:40 AM   #15
Miracle Worker
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His monkey was probably sleeping. Stayed up late watching the Yanks/Mets game I liked the course Tony. I would of raced again but then I'd have no money for the Bridge and Tolls.

BTW. who won in the Focus shootout. and by how much?
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:48 AM   #16
paultg
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Hey Sean, Its Paul (the guy who ran behind you when this happend-White 99 RS w/Prodrive Rims).
I had a similar spin happen to me in a salom at another event. I slide about 40 ft backwards with my 99 RS once it did the 180. I can remember thinking "why am I not slowing down?". My spin was completely my fault. I hit the rev-limiter in 2nd while turning into the salom (way to hot). I never spun a car with a 5-speed before and applied brakes, but never put the clutch in, so the car stalled (not sure when). I was thinking the car stalled while backwards, and that maybe the power brakes/abs were not active once the engine stalled, but I would hope abs still works when the engine is not running? Did you car stall? Maybe that is why you slid so long?
I worked this coner after the heat. He (Sean) really went a long ways to the fence. I could not believe how far he slid to be honest. I could not figure out how he spun in the direction opposite physics would predict too? Very strange.
The course design was excellent for driver safety and especially for workers.

Well done Tony.

Paul G.
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Old 10-23-2000, 01:31 PM   #17
Sean
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From what Steven (the event coordinator) said, the SCCA's insurance will be picking up the bill for the fence. I signed a waiver and I'm an SCCA member, so that's a Good Thing(tm).

/Sean/
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Old 10-23-2000, 06:04 PM   #18
felix
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I bet you after that run his trunk monkey had his life preserver on because right after the fence was the water.
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Old 10-23-2000, 08:07 PM   #19
10th Warrior
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seems like all the good people were puting holes in their front end this sunday of course my incident was less dramatic.
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Old 10-24-2000, 12:17 AM   #20
Corey
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I'll have to take a walk around the parking lot and check out this damage Sean. Do you have to pay for the fence?
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Old 10-24-2000, 12:53 AM   #21
8Complex

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Sean - Yeah good point... I don't know exactly what is around where the pic was taken.

Corey - If he signed the waiver, the club holding the race will have insurance that should cover it, I think...
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