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Old 04-07-2004, 09:06 PM   #1
anders8
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Member#: 26658
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Raleigh, NC
Vehicle:
1 Love Grassroots
NASA Rally Sport FTW!

Rally Stuff Tranny go up, tranny comes down, tranny goes up, tranny comes down....

So, here's the news: I have a clutch release bearing that going going gone, making all kinds of noise and squeaking.. So, time for that mug to come out.

Conflict: I'm supposed to be up at Cherokee Trails in TN this weekend, measuring the route and drawing the route book, using the rally car.

So, that's postponed, probably till next weekend. Need to fix tranny this weekend. Probably could use a hand with this... Probably starting Friday night. Thursday night will be getting everything into the garage, and getting the garage prepped and cleaned. Possibly getting the skid plate off and things like that.

Interested in helping so that I'll be able to go up and help Cherokee Trails happen this year?

Thanks guys!
Anders
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:26 PM   #2
Burnout
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HAHA, damn those release bearings! Mines seeking too not sure how much life it has on it. Would love to work on the Rally car but i wont be free till Monday. If it comes then and your still short handed let me know on here. Between My car and Kevin's car I've pretty much have done four clutch installs within a months time, you would think im trying to set a record or something.
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Old 04-08-2004, 12:22 AM   #3
DrBiggly
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Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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I may be able to help Friday, not sure yet. I'll let you know though!
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:35 AM   #4
MudBoogers
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Location: FallsLakeBoonies, NC
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.... '10 3.6R
Critterhauler

Default Anders...

What goes around comes around eh?
You were more than helpful on mine, so least I can do is help you, just tell me when and I'll be there (on liberty this wknd - warden out of town )
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Old 04-08-2004, 12:31 PM   #5
trhoppe
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Sorry, I'm out of town this weekend.

With my "shultzlike" luck with trannys though, being 600 miles away while you guys are working on it might be a *good* thing

-Tom
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Old 04-08-2004, 01:24 PM   #6
MudBoogers
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Critterhauler

Default or...

600miles might not be far enough!
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Old 04-08-2004, 02:29 PM   #7
anders8
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NASA Rally Sport FTW!

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Awww snap!!!
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Old 04-08-2004, 03:41 PM   #8
IronMonkeyL255
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I would love to help, but I got wrangled into working tomorrow.....
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Old 04-08-2004, 04:04 PM   #9
OddMonkey
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I'll throw my wrench in too... just let me know where to be, and when.

-Bill
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Old 04-08-2004, 04:09 PM   #10
Fred
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I'm going to be out of town tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure I'm available on Saturday. Have to check with my master & let you know.

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Old 04-09-2004, 01:19 PM   #11
anders8
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1 Love Grassroots
NASA Rally Sport FTW!

Default

Ok, so here's the situation:

Subie is in the garage.
Garage is clean, although benches need slight tidying.
Subie undercarriage is pressure washed.
Subie is up on ramps.
MGB is in the driveway.

So, ready to go. I'll be starting tonight, after dinner, 'bout 7:30. I expect things to go pretty smoothly, since the tranny has been out before, none of the bolts or linkages should be frozen.

The replacement part is "in stock" over at Subaru, that will be a trip for tomorrow morning. Today is just some removal and diagnosis.

Then possibly some drinking and Initial D cartoons!

Saturday, a relaxed start, oh, 11:00, and put it back together. (I'll go get the bearing early in the morning.)

Really, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Directions: http://www.freshmilk.com/anders/directions/

Cheers,
Anders
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Old 04-11-2004, 03:18 PM   #12
kwh29
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Anders, I'll let you post what was _really_ wrong.

Long story short: It wasn't the tranny!

Edit: It wasn't the clutch either but, as Bill says, it sucked. Hard.

--Kevin H.

Last edited by kwh29; 04-12-2004 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 04-11-2004, 03:51 PM   #13
IronMonkeyL255
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Legacy Turbo

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Darnit Anders, tell us what was wrong already.
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:27 PM   #14
trhoppe
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yea, what happened?

-Tom
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:57 PM   #15
OddMonkey
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I'm not sayin... but when we found out what it was, it sucked.
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Old 04-12-2004, 09:18 AM   #16
anders8
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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1 Love Grassroots
NASA Rally Sport FTW!

Default




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Old 04-12-2004, 09:24 AM   #17
MudBoogers
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.... '10 3.6R
Critterhauler

Default tranny?

ugh, that sucks......
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Old 04-12-2004, 09:50 AM   #18
anders8
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Raleigh, NC
Vehicle:
1 Love Grassroots
NASA Rally Sport FTW!

Default The Dealio

Preface: I have a squeaky clutch release bearing. Confimation that the sound is a clutch release bearing by several other folks, including other rally mechanics / car builders.

- Remove tranny Friday night with Bill (oddmonkey). Took two nonhurried hours.

- Get new clutch release bearing Saturday morning

- Get back and start trying to figure out why it would wear so quickly. Soon OddMonkey, kwh29, and Fred are there helping.

-We do a lot of measuring with the digital calipers. Conclusion is that we have about 1 mm of play (on average) for the bearing to fully release from the pressure plate springs. This involves clutch and pressure plate out.

-Flywheel and clutch fairly torn up. Someone asks "huh, wonder what could have caused that?" I replied, "Could it have been the RACING?!?!!"

-Decide to put tranny back on (with new bearing, even though old and new seem very much the same) for a test fit of bearing release play.

-Seems to be about right. Clutch can release, and has a millimeter or so of play when out, confirming earlier measurements. So plans to mill the clutch fork pivot are scrapped as unnecessary.

-Start it up (car has all four off the ground, rear prop shaft disconnected, front drive shafts out, but shift linkage not connected) and the noise is STILL there! It startes up after a minute of running.

-Hypothesis that the starter may not be retracting, so take the starter out and test it. Seems fine.

-I decide I want to hear the engine running without the starter even attached to verify. Put the starter in place with the bolt only slightly threaded. Start the car holding the starter to the block, then unbolt and remove the starter. Still the noise.

-Now I want to verify that the noise actually stops when the flywheel spins down. The noise quiets when you stop the engine, like the flywheel is spinning down slowly, and the bearing squeak is slowing down too.

-So, starter back on, start engine, starter back out. Looking at the pressure plate and clutch through the hole left by the starter with a mirror and flashlight, we kill the engine. The flywheel (9.5 pound aluminum) stops instantly and _then_ the noise slows down. Whatever is causing the noise, it's happening when there is no movement at all in the engine. Freaky!!

-We're racking our brains at this point. OddMonkey suggests vacuum, so we try that. Start up the car, wait for the noise to start, and kwh29 (Kevin) starts pulling vacuum lines. And the noise stops! What what what????

-During the swap, I had put the output of the PCV to the vacuum. Worked fine for a while, since the noise is recent. But what appears to be happening now is that the vacuum is actually pulling air past the rear main seal into the sump! The whistling is exactly like a bearing sound, I mean *ridiculously* the same.

-Solution: reroute that to a vent, or back around to the intake.

So.... wasn't the bearing. I'm not upset about dropping the tranny, since inspecting the clutch and pressure plate after three rallies gives me a pretty good indication of how much longer it's going to last. (Uh, not much! One or two more rallies.)

It's pretty much one of the craziest things I've ever heard of as far as "engine mysteries". And I'm glad it's figured out now! And thanks to everyone that came over! Amy and FredsWyfe made up scrumptious burgers and beers were had, and FRITOS!!!, and so on.
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Old 04-12-2004, 10:22 AM   #19
trhoppe
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No race cars
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Wow.

Glad it was something that stupid though!!!

I'm glad I wasn't there If I was it would have been the main bearing in the tranny making that noise, even though the car was sitting still

-Tom
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Old 04-12-2004, 10:44 AM   #20
anders8
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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1 Love Grassroots
NASA Rally Sport FTW!

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by kwh29
It wasn't the clutch either but, as Bill says, it sucked. Hard.
Ahhh, the subtly... Yes, it was, as Kevin described it, a "Lab-grade vacuum" that was ultimately the problem. So yeah, "it sucked, hard" is entirely accurate.



smfrtd
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Old 04-12-2004, 11:44 AM   #21
Fred
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Location: Four Oaks, NC
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06 STi, 02 WRX
94 Open Light 2.5RS

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A couple of pictures from my camera...



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Old 04-12-2004, 08:26 PM   #22
pleiades
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Old 04-12-2004, 09:02 PM   #23
IronMonkeyL255
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Location: Greenville, SC
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Legacy Turbo

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Old 04-12-2004, 10:33 PM   #24
OddMonkey
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dirt flavored silver

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hmm.. normally it takes more than one beer for me to show my ass... must be getting soft in my old age.
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