Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday July 13, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > Other Engine Management

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2004, 04:18 PM   #251
turboICE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33979
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.NJ
Vehicle:
2006 STi,'11 OBS
WRB & Black/Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DarthChicken
(example he actually uses one in his daily driver wrx)
And track driven...

Just spent two days with Phil at the track - it is a shame that his dogbox didn't hold up to it. Get the 6, Phil.

Certainly going to be looking at this. Xede did what I wanted with the WRX, but I am tired of getting multiple cylinder (usually all) misfires at speed (135+mph) in the STi. It has gotten to the point where I don't even bother to slow down I know what it is when that ugly cruise light starts blinking and just clear it after the heat is over. Piggy-backing is worse on the STi ECU than any other ECU I have ever piggy backed on. But at least for the time being I have gotten it mostly stable and don't get hesitation just that annoying CEL.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
turboICE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 06:08 PM   #252
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

Sorry about that... I am just trying to balance out the negativity...

Actually to be honest there are bugs here and there... I had a wierd acting Air temp sensor but after I moved the ground it was better.

I am prepared for the air temp changes because I live in a place where it gets from 30 C to - 10 C in one day... I don't really know but there are so many more variances then just the ecu, mechanically sounds car... accurate sensor... good grounds...

Because I know my car has bad grounds... but i'm just to lazy to go through the car.

But to be honest, we are still beta testing here. I never went into this ECU thinking it would be a smooth ride. even with ECUS that have been around for a long time, there are issues. Andrew has been very helpful and helps me tune my car long distance which is very hard. but its down pack...

Some things I dislike very much is the boost and fuel cut... i would advise anyone to avoid it like it will blow up your engine... because thats just too violent for me...

things are not at 100% accuracy. I never expected it to be, but the VSS is off by 8 kms, and some other stock calibration....

the map sensor is off by 2 psi but so are other standalones... etc...
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 06:12 PM   #253
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

also I would like Phil to come in on these discussions more on the hydra... any reason why he's not in on these much?
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 07:36 AM   #254
Hitokiri
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2604
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CA
Vehicle:
1999 2.5RSt
RBP

Default

it is my understanding that the main reason he is not in on these discussions is because the hydras under question in this thread are not "his" so to speak. He woun't want to support products that he wasn't involved in. Especially ones with such drastically incorrect initial setups as we have seen.

I think it is a testament to his good character that he chimed in at all when people are having trouble. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think anyone has an Element Hydra at this point. Hence the innaccurate and blatently incorrect basemaps / dwell times / temp correction problems, etc.


Todd
Hitokiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 02:20 PM   #255
SubaFastR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5786
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: RS202
Default

What's an "Element Hydra?" He is just the Subaru distributor.
SubaFastR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 02:22 PM   #256
DarthChicken
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9073
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Hillsboro, OR.
Vehicle:
2006 ariel atom
wrb/bbs gold frame

Default

He's not only the subaru disti, but he's also doing the maps. I trust his base maps to be a LOT better than directly from Hydra (no knock at hydra, but Phil specializes in Subarus obviously).

That was why Phil is the sole disti at this point, so they don't have to worry about base maps and tuning support. They build, he tunes and provides support.
DarthChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 02:25 PM   #257
SubaFastR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5786
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: RS202
Default

I've never heard of him before this.
SubaFastR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 02:36 PM   #258
DarthChicken
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9073
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Hillsboro, OR.
Vehicle:
2006 ariel atom
wrb/bbs gold frame

Default

Phil from Turboxs? You've heard of turboxs right?
DarthChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 02:49 PM   #259
Timdog1650
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45516
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Norfolk/Virginia Beach, VA
Vehicle:
MY04 STi
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DarthChicken
Phil from Turboxs? You've heard of turboxs right?
Any WRX guys have #'s on their hydra? I'd like to know if you can squeeze more WHP out of the nemesis than you can out of a UTEC/EcuTek combination (which would cost a lot more btw).
Timdog1650 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 03:01 PM   #260
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

phil is not the only subaru distributor I believe he is the exclusive for WRX and STI only. but those are details that the distributor and retailer have to work out...


but I see this totally different... I see no reason why Element and TWE can't come by and offer some insights or opinions on the ecu. they don't need to offer support since we didn't buy it from them, but just some insight would be nice
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 03:35 PM   #261
Eraz3r
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 25446
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: bloomington, IL
Vehicle:
2005 Nissan 350z
silverstone

Default

At this point the hydra could come with a virus installed and labled as a feature but as long as i could drive my car I wouldnt care... seriously, when i was told at the end of april it would be out the 2nd week of may i sold my utec and have been waiting ever since. sux arses.
Eraz3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 03:38 PM   #262
DarthChicken
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9073
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Hillsboro, OR.
Vehicle:
2006 ariel atom
wrb/bbs gold frame

Default

I just got off the phone with Phil... he still thinks this week he'll have units. There is also a dyno day up in Seattle Washington that he will be at, and I said if I had my unit by then, I would drive up so he would have some visibility of his product.
DarthChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2004, 02:18 PM   #263
masiolli
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35840
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Youngstown, Oh
Vehicle:
1999 Blue RS-t
22t & Hydra

Default

sorry for the noob question... but im completely new to tuning...

What are Dwell Times?

(this may be answered with my first question, but...)
What do they effect?
masiolli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2004, 04:45 PM   #264
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

ignition dwell is the duration of time that the coil has 12vdc across its primary side. it is during this time that the magnetic field is getting stronger (essentially "charging" the coil).

hth
ken
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 12:22 AM   #265
SubaFastR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5786
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: RS202
Default

use it too much and your coilpacks will fry
SubaFastR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 09:14 AM   #266
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Timdog1650
Any WRX guys have #'s on their hydra? I'd like to know if you can squeeze more WHP out of the nemesis than you can out of a UTEC/EcuTek combination (which would cost a lot more btw).
why would you be able to? for all intents and purposes it's the same spark energy, timing numbers, boost control and fuel... it's just a different way to set them, with some other/different features here and there.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 10:16 AM   #267
DarthChicken
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9073
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Hillsboro, OR.
Vehicle:
2006 ariel atom
wrb/bbs gold frame

Default

The only reason I can see for being able to extract more power is if you've been getting knock at tip in. The hydra will let you control the acceleration parameters - ie the enrichment that occurs when you first jump on the throttle, so you can avoid knock.

Example - lets say while driving around with your maf based tuning solution, you realize you get knock at 4350rpm, under the 50% load column. Its not every time, but it does happen. Didn't knock on the dyno at all, and rarely happens on the street, but it does happen. After a week of pulling out your hair, you realize it occurs when you take the car up to 4000rpm gently, and THEN floor it. WAM, knock. So, you have to reduce the timing in that area.

(I've seen this with both ECUTek and UTECs, anything that you can't control the accel parameter on, and you are at the mercy of the stock ECU you might have this issue, ESPECIALLY if you've changed the MAF tube diameter)

That won't happen with the hydra. MAF tubes don't mean anything. It sees boost, and it sees your throttle position. Also, the knock control only pulls a fraction of a degree, or adds just a fraction of fuel when it gets knock. None of the pulling 3-5 degrees of timing, completely hosing you if you're on the track.

This is what a full standalone brings you - full control over parameters that you had no control of before.
DarthChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 10:22 AM   #268
TheMadScientist
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23717
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Beverly, MA
Vehicle:
2005 Big red

Default

I can see the hydra making more power than other EM. My reason for that statement is you get both fuel and timing trims for each cylinder. This will alow you to not have to tune to the worst case cylinder. I think it is John Banks over on scoobynet installed a J&S safegaurd with timing trim for each cylinder he saw ~20hp more with just timing.

TMS
TheMadScientist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 10:46 AM   #269
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

Darth hit the nail on the head..
I call it transition boost... because at that split second, you get a surge of air.. and timing changes... I hate the Stock STI ecu... ouch..
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 11:49 AM   #270
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

i agree that individual cylinder control is a "good thing." i believe it was banks who picked up some 10-20hp.

i hope it all comes together, for the sake of the community. competition is a great thing for progress!

ken
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 02:28 PM   #271
bboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56468
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
04 Improved STI
Dirty White

Default

.....And EGT would be your tuning parameter for individual cylinder control???

I'm heading in this direction, EGT probe for each exhaust port. Looking at sourcing the bungs right now for welding onto the header.

Omega.com sells an inexpensive 4 input digital gauge ($95) into which I'll plug four exposed thermocouple probes (~$40/probe).

After tuning, I may pass this thing around for others to use to do their tunes. Phil seemed pretty interested in the indi' cylinder data. I have the '04 STi so he won't being tuning those until August.
bboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2004, 03:07 AM   #272
Sparcomx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1791
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: San Pedro, CA, USA
Default

Any news on this unit are they shipping??
Sparcomx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 02:39 PM   #273
markus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 438
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, AB, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 STi
White on Gold

Default

HOK,

How is the tuning going??? Any further info for those of us waiting in the wings???

MB
markus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 05:19 PM   #274
4doorTurboRS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 40769
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: 2000 2.5 @ 6psi
Default

Any thing on the Nemesis are they shipping?
4doorTurboRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 06:38 PM   #275
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

The tuning is coming VERY well. I was quite surprised at the amount of time I have put into this ECU and have already understood most of its functions. Its actually quite easy... compared to the TEC II this is like playing pac man... From my previous update I have used the auto tune function and it functions as well as can be expected. It does err on the side of rich then slowly goes to the target AFR. response time is ok... but this is from looking at logs which when scrolling may seem like a long time, but I log at 4 times a sec. Most people are amazed how I can hit 14.7 EXACTLY at cruise.. and I tell them its my tuning... (shhhhh). The only other Auto tune function I heard that functions ok is the HKS V pro unit. But I don't really care as long as mine works.

I have worked my way up from 13 psi to 21 psi on 92 octane. I have now 1. run out of injectors and 2. glazed my clutch like a Krispy Kreme Donut. I only tune to 10.2 - 10.4 and already, I am making well past what I have had before. When I ran my 13.4 1/4 mile, my power meter ID read my peak horsepower was 270. After 2 weeks at 21 psi (on the GT30), I have a 328 reading on the power meter id. It felt very good and pulls well. I'm very happy with the car. People that have rode in the car have agreed with the power meter readings however inaccurate they prove to be.

The base maps that come with it will need to be reworked. I would say 50% on the settings whatever year your 2.5 RS is. Fuel maps for me were quite out of tune. I would say 90% of it was changed. (and I am not talking about tweaks) even though both were supposed to be 550 cc injectors. If you purchase this without some sort of wideband tool or with the wideband option you might as well not buy it.

I do find that the logging is not flexible enough. I had a delta dash and sold it next to nothing (hint!!!) and found that to be a great tool. There is no fuel pump voltages on the hydra and I would like to see that. Also I don't see where I could add sensors or auxillary tools. I will have to ask about this (in the logs). And I have noticed some odd ball values in the logs. I don't know if this is my grounding or electrical systems in the car, but the air temp (even though I thought I fixed it will sometimes read very low.) But using the log to tune is great by using the cell reference to the maps. You can pin point exactly where and what needs to be changed. (AFR at what cell and what spark or knock ramp) Its great. There is no guessing game with this.

I was doing well with the air conditioning tune, but the idle is a little bouncy when i turn on the AC. I will go to the target that I set it for on AC, but will also revert back to the original idle target. I little annoying but I think it "may" be my tune. I have tested the car in cold starts from 7 C to 30 C. I still need to tweak, but the car does need a couple more turns to get started and sometimes, 2-3 times. Again maybe my tune. Surprisingly my car idles rock solid and sounds as quiet as the first day I got it.

I havn't worked up the courage to try launch control as I still have a stock tranny. But I hear it is very violent.

I know there is a new flash for the ECU and is some upgrades with rpm tracking and scrolling, but I have come from a software development background and I am strongly thinking to just keep my flash since it is working just fine for me. Drivability is always an issue when we tune our own cars, but i'm doing just fine.
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: $420 SHIPPEDD !!Hydra Nemesis 2.0 with 2.14 2002-2005 WRX. Stand Alone ECU OBO! kokopuffs405 Engine/Power/Exhaust 18 12-10-2009 11:19 AM
FS: Hydra Nemesis 2.0 with 2.14 software for a 2002-2005 WRX. Stand Alone ECU OBO! kokopuffs405 MAIC Private Classifieds 17 12-10-2009 11:19 AM
Hydra/Nemesis 2.17r1 help for a n00b swilson Other Engine Management 24 01-22-2006 12:16 PM
Hydra Nemesis 2.0? NorCal11.7 Other Engine Management 5 11-23-2004 07:17 PM
Need help developing PNP HYDRA Nemesis 2.0 ecu for 99-02 2.5RS HydraEMS-NA Other Engine Management 1 02-17-2004 11:40 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.