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Old 04-12-2004, 07:01 PM   #1
bdoss123
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Default Cutting into door to fit 4inch speaker?

I am wondering about installing a 3 Way Component set in the door of my 97 GT. I can fit the 6.5 in the stock location, and the tweeter in the sail panel, but am having trouble figuring out where I can put the 4inch midrange.

It looks like I could mount it on the carpeted panel that runs above the stock speaker location. The problem with this would be the depth of the speaker, but what if I could just cut a hole in the inner-door that would allow the 4inch's magnet to fit?

Would this be a bad plan? Any ideas?

Brendan
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Old 04-12-2004, 11:56 PM   #2
subiekid
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i made a 1 inch spacer out of particle board.
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Old 04-12-2004, 11:57 PM   #3
janikphoto
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Here's the thing....

Wait, first I need to add the dancing banana...



OK... The idea of the three way component set is great... in theory, but it won't do you that much good in reality if you REALLY want the improved sound quality. You need to put the three speakers in very close proximity to each other if you want realistic sound reproduction. If you space the three appart, you will spread out the center of focus and lose all your imaging.

If you just want them because they are expensive and you want something to spend your time on, well, have fun. But if you want them for awesome sound quality, by a really high-end two-way component set and work on a way to angle both 6 1/2's up towards the listener so you have more on-axis sound. Also, find a way to mount the tweeter RIGHT NEXT to the mid and angle them directly towards the center of the front seats.

next step is to get a really good eq, like an audio control unit that goes in the trunk (not a sparkomatic that goes in the dash). Set the front speakers to have a smooth and even response and drive with them for a week or two.

Next (if you want something to do and want to see if you are really happy with your eq settings), note the settings on paper and then put that paper aside. Now reset the eq by ear again and drive with them for another week or two. Note the eq on paper and reset it one more time by ear and see how close each different setting was. If they are all pretty close to each other, you probably have it set fine for your taste. If the progressively slope to the third setting, you probably just needed to get used to the sound of your new speakers. If all three settings were pretty different and off the wall from each other, well, maybe you don't know what to listen for and will not be able to set the eq without help. Don't feel bad though. Most people don't know how, so you're not alone...

Oh, and finally, as if this wasn't long enough... If you just want something to be super loud and think the extra speaker will help, well, you are wrong. If you just want decently clean and terribly loud, go with a good two-way set that is designed to handle a lot of power like the boston pro series. I think the have a two way that could take a good amount of power. The old a/d/s could also take a lot. Not sure about their new orion-made speakers though...
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:11 AM   #4
2000LegacySti
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Quote:
Originally posted by janikphoto
Here's the thing....

Wait, first I need to add the dancing banana...



OK... The idea of the three way component set is great... in theory, but it won't do you that much good in reality if you REALLY want the improved sound quality. You need to put the three speakers in very close proximity to each other if you want realistic sound reproduction. If you space the three appart, you will spread out the center of focus and lose all your imaging.

If you just want them because they are expensive and you want something to spend your time on, well, have fun. But if you want them for awesome sound quality, by a really high-end two-way component set and work on a way to angle both 6 1/2's up towards the listener so you have more on-axis sound. Also, find a way to mount the tweeter RIGHT NEXT to the mid and angle them directly towards the center of the front seats.

I thought that, for optimum imaging, you want to have the tweeters at or close to the same height as the focal point of the listening position, or at ear level in other words. Then you can angle the midranges toward your ears, but they can stay around their stock locations in most cars. That's just what I've learned to accept, but I don't know because it sounds like you know your stuff too..........
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:20 AM   #5
janikphoto
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You are right... and wrong... You want your SPEAKERS at optimum listening height, distance and angle. You ALSO want the speakers (tweet, mid, bass) to be as close to each other to keep each channel as focused as possible. That's why higher end home speakers (like several grand a pair) sometimes have a coaxial mid/tweet combo.

OK, so how do you do this in a car?!? You can't. At least not all of it anyway. You can usually do a couple of the things on the list. I will explain in the next post after I go get a drink... See you in a minute.
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:23 AM   #6
2000LegacySti
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ok cool, i know what you mean when you refer to home speaker design, that's how my high-end towers are set up. tell me more.......i'll post what I've done in my car when I get it finished....
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:33 AM   #7
janikphoto
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OK, so do you choose optimum height for all your your speakers? No because there is no room for all the spkrs at ear level. Do you put all the spkrs as close together as possible? No, because there is usually no room up front for the subwoofers.

I saw a bmw that had them custom-fabbed into the front wheelwells so the low freq sound was closer to the mid and high sound which was also custom-fabbed into the dash. But that's too much work for you and me...

OK, so do you have optimum speaker distance and angle to the listener? Not unless the listen sits in the dead center of the car and has a dash that's about 4 or 5 feet long.

You see, you give up a lot in the car audio experience. You have to accept that it will never be as good as it can be. But with all the road noise that a car picks up as it drives, it doesn't really matter. You pick a few important things and make the system as good as you can with as few variables as possible. This way you can keep as many of these "stereo rules" as possible. I suggest you try to keep the focus and also try your best to work on another I didn't mention yet - good frequency response.

If you can find a set of two-way components that can play a really even freq response from 20k down to about 90hz, well, then all you need is a good 12" or a pair of 10" subs and you are ready to go. And you will probably need a good eq, since even a really good set of spkrs will need some tweeking since the car itself will actually affect the sound as well.

Anyway, there are SOOO many variables that affect car audio sound quality that I could talk for hours and hours. Just focus on the above and try to get rid of as much road noise as possible. All that stuff will keep you busy for a LONG time on your pursuit for the perfect car stereo system...
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:44 AM   #8
bdoss123
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Janik, I thank you for your input regarding imaging and sound qality in the vehicle. For me however, this information is somewhat old news. I've been doing this car audio thing for a while, and have done setups with hi-end 3 Ways, 2 Ways, decent co-ax, and on down the line. I've got this 3 Way component set lying around, and don't want to buy a 2-way set.

Also, don't discount 3-Way components due to the difficulty of installation. Personally I've always had awesome results once a 3 way setup is complete, the depth it adds to the music is something hard to produce with one less speaker (makes since when you think about dedicating drivers to specific frequency ranges). Regardless of my opinion, or yours, I will be sticking with the 3 ways on a financial basis alone. If I use the stock location for the 6.5 and can fit the 4 in just above it, I can still angle both speakers with brackets. The tweeter will be in the sail-panel (I would like to do kicks, but can't afford this, plus I like how having the tweeters up high brings the soundstage up a bit).

The EQ info you gave is good also, I think anyone getting into the SQ side of car stereo would benefit from reading that post.

Back to my original question though, would it be OK to cut through some of the metal on the inside of where the window rolls down, just enough to create space for that 4 inch?

Thanks,
BD
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:35 AM   #9
janikphoto
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Money is ALWAYS the main factor in stereo. You have to go with what your wallet says...

I've cut into the metal on other cars, but not the legacy yet. The key is to look at the door with the window rolled down. Here is another, uhh, crazy option...

I have been playing around with this idea for as long as I've had my outback. A lowered gt may not work though. I have a set of components in the doors (tweets are down by the mids and the soundstage still seems to be up high thanks to good eq setting and good tweet angle) and have a good matching 6 1/2" midbass spkr that I was thinking about mounting along with it.

I actually thought about cutting out the floor and building a very small (maybe a .4 cubic foot is what the spkr calls for) box out of diamond plate (know anyone with basic welding skills?) and having the midbass face directly up. The spkr would still be off axis to the listener about the same as the other mid, just on a different plane but still located very close to the other spkrs to help keep focus.

Since I studied where my feet normally rest, I figured it would work and I'd just have to remove some of the rubber on the bottom of the floormat. The idea is a little more complex than I mention here, but you get the basic idea...
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