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Old 04-13-2004, 12:11 AM   #1
uuarex
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Default Hoosier R-compounds Questions

I have decided to buy a set of 245/40/17 Hoosier tires for my STi to autocross with. My questions are: What is the actual difference between the R3S03 and the A3S03. Also what is the difference between the A3S03's and the A3S04's. Should I buy heat cycled tires?
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Old 04-13-2004, 01:25 AM   #2
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If you are only going to AutoX get the a203. They heat up really quick. If you take them on a track though you will kill them really fast. The r203 take longer to heat up but last longer on a track. The a204 are just the newer tire but from what I hear they are about the same.
The following is my opinion:
Hoosiers ware extremely quick even just autoXing can kill them quick. If you are just starting out I would recommend the Kumho Victoracers they last a lot longer and are more forgiving. The Hoosiers are better but unless you are squeezing that last tenth of a second out they are not that much better than the longer lasting and cheaper Kumho.

Heatcycling is a matter of taste really. Everyone has a different way of doing it and some say theirs is best even better than the Tireracks. I run a new set really hard at a 1-1.5 minute autoX then take them off for two days. If you just don't want to deal with it get them cycled already.
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:12 AM   #3
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Since you have an STi I'll quickly assume tire cost isn't an issue. I will also go with your decision to buy the Hoosier instead of pointing you toward anything else. As posted earlier, the difference between the A3S03 and R3S03 are in rubber compounds. The A is for autocross, and will come up to temp quicker, but not last as long. The R is for roadracing and will take (a little) longer to come up to temp, but last (a little) longer. The A and R3S04 is a new tire with steel belts instead of fiberglass. So they are heavier. Durability is the main difference according to Hoosier. Compounding is supposed to be the same, but folks still prefer the S03 over the S04. As supply of the S03 diminishes for a given size, only the S04 will be available, so some are buying up the S03 while they can. If that's what you'd rather have, get em soon. They are slightly faster from most accounts I've seen, heard and read.

You can autocross on the roadrace compound, the difference will be negligable unless you're actually using every ounce of performance from the tires. If you co-drive, it may be better to have the R3S03(4) for longevity. If you do any trackdays, you'll be glad you have R3S03(4), but will still likely burn through a set in a day. That's what...$900 roundabouts..... If you autocross them only, you'll need a set a season unless you're competitive, then you'll need 2 sets. If you co-drive and are competitive, you'll need a steady supply.

Hoosiers are to autocrossers as CRACK is to junkies!

If you have any doubts about other tires, do more research before buying. Until the recent trouble with the Kumho V710, there was actually a choice in top tires for once (that I can remember). There are other options that may or may not be more suited to your needs.

Hope this helps,
Jay Storm
....looking for the next Hoosier fix....
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:57 AM   #4
Luke@tirerack
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R3S03 = road race compound
A3S03 = AutoX compound

A3S04 = steel belted which offers better steering response and faster transitions. the previous A3S03's were not steel belted tires they used fiberglass belting material ...... and are soon to be discontinued because the A3S04 is a replacement tire for them
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Old 04-14-2004, 11:10 AM   #5
uuarex
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Luke I would like to order some A3S03 or A3S04's. I need them ASAP however, and I would like them heat cycled. On the website the A3S03's seem to be out of stock. And I can't order the A3S04's heat cycled. I also can't call, and I don't have an email that I have ready/guaranteed access too. I'm on a secluded tropical Island, where phone calls are very expensive, and all webbased emails are blocked.
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Old 04-14-2004, 03:16 PM   #6
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Ah, just ship 'em to him....you're good for it, right?

Jay Storm
www.sourcemotorsports.com
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Old 04-14-2004, 03:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by uuarex
Luke I would like to order some A3S03 or A3S04's. I need them ASAP however, and I would like them heat cycled. On the website the A3S03's seem to be out of stock. And I can't order the A3S04's heat cycled. I also can't call, and I don't have an email that I have ready/guaranteed access too. I'm on a secluded tropical Island, where phone calls are very expensive, and all webbased emails are blocked.
place your order on the tire rack website for non-heat cycled A3S04's and let me knwo what the order number is and I will add the heat cyclig to it after the fact ...
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:04 PM   #8
uuarex
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Luke, Order 7844296
Thanks
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Old 04-14-2004, 10:27 PM   #9
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Well guys, you've just given a guy in the 9th step and keg !!

Now that you're gonna have Hoosiers, you're farther gone than you realize,..but have fun and figure out tire temp, maybe find someone using them,it'll save you some money . Also go to hoosiers website and they should still have the guide telling you this weight car, this tire size, needs this much camber when tire temp is cold, and when tire temp is hot,...thats very helpful when you first get married to Hoosiers,..maybe not so much with the Auto-x tires. I use the roadrace tires, and with a 285-18 front and 305-18 rear, it took me 2 sets to figure out why we kept seeing cords, after a day. I know alot of people who still go through that with a 2300 lbs car ( 944 turbo racecar) and big tires,..prob is you cant get temp all the way across the tire. So we upped the pressure to 47hot front and 46 hot rear, and ran 3.5 negative front and .5 negative rear, and ...BOOM......lap time dropped 1.5 seconds on a 2.1 mile track. So if you cant find it, I'll search through all my stuff,...

Luke might be able to supply the chart from Hoosier.

944 turbo guy

Myles Williams
Racecomp Engineering LLC
www.racecompengineering.com

2720 Sisson st .
Baltimore, Md 21211
410-366-RACE (7223)
410-707-0108 cell
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Old 04-15-2004, 09:18 AM   #10
Luke@tirerack
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Proper break-in will not affect initial performance but will increase the competitive life of the tire.

The procedure can be broken down onto phases.

1st phase: The initial run
2nd phase: The length of the time the tire is allowed to "cure"
The initial run

The first laps for the tire are critical for setting up the durability and competitive life. The first session should consist of 10-15 minutes of running. The early part of the session should be run at an easy pace, with the speed gradually increased until the end of the session. The final lap should be run at the fastest possible speed. The intent is to achieve maximum tire temp on the last lap. At this point the car should be brought in and the tires allowed to cool at a normal rate. Optimally, the tires should be removed or have the car jacked up during this cooling.

During this process, the inflation pressure should be 3-5 psi higher than you would normally use. The best progression would have the driver taking 4-7 laps to accomplish this break-in. Each lap should be approximately 7-10 seconds a lap faster than the previous lap. The goal is to have the tire temp as high as possible on the last lap without "shocking" the tire during the warm up laps. In essence, no wheelspin, late braking, or sliding. The last lap should be at, or very close, the maximum possible.

"Cure" Time

After completing the above, the length of time the tire is allowed to set is possibly more important. The barest minimum for this process to be beneficial is 24 hours. (Not "the next day"). Any less than this is a waste of time. The best situation would allow a week before using the tire again.

Proper tire management is a difficult process. To accomplish this almost always requires a second set of wheels. The payoff is greatly increased competitive tire life.

Tire Pressure recommendations

Hoosier Tire typically require higher pressures than other brands.

Reference the following chart for suggested pressures:

Vehicle size recommended hot pressure / cold pressure

1800-2200 lbs 39-42 / 31-36
2200-2600 lbs 40-43 / 32-37
2600-3000 lbs 42-46 / 32-37
over 3000 lbs 43-48 / 32-38

+ Higher pressures will improve the performance capability but will require a more sensitive feel to take advantage of the increase.

One characteristic of the tires is the tendency to "skate" initially (when inflation pressures are correct). It is important to resist lowering the pressure to attempt to eliminate this feeling. Dropping the pressure may improve the "feel" of the tire however it will also lower the performance and increase the wear on the tire.

Tire temperature recommendations

For best performance the expected temperature range will vary from track to track. Generally, optimum traction will be generated when the pit lane temps show 180-200 degrees. Check with the tire technicians at the event for the recommendations for that particular track and car combination. Take advantage of the temperature checking station that will be set up during the practice session. Use of Hoosier technicians measurements eliminates variables in instruments and procedure which can influence the data.

Chassis setup recommendations

For optimum performance the tires will require around 3 degrees of camber. There will be a trade off in Max Performance to maximize wear. Generally 1/2 degrees less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees can result in excessive wear on the shoulder junction.

The tires should offer better performance with spring/shock rates higher than previous brands you may have run.

Things to consider

These tires are molded to their designed tread depth. They do not require shaving to be prepared for competition use. Shave the tire further will not improve performance. It is not recommended that they be altered in this manner.

Due to extremely light construction, the Hoosier tires have a much lower polar moment than other radial tires. This translates to a very low rotational mass, which is a good thing for performance applications. The down side to this feature is that the tires don't resist "spikes" in braking force as well as a heavier tire might. As a result, there is a tendency for drivers to "flatspot" a tire the first time really getting to the limit. Vehicles equipped with ABS will benefit from its use. If you do not use ABS it is recommended that you make an effort to minimize stabbing the brakes until you have some experience with the feel of the tire under hard braking.

The light construction also provides less protection from impact damage and punctures. Off course excursions or running over debris on the track will likely result in tire damage.

Tire tires are not directional, however the tread is asymmetrical in design. A new tire should be mounted with the two grooves on the inboard side. Once some wear has occurred it may be desirable to flip the tire on the wheel in order to even out the wear and maximize tire life.

Following the recommended break-in procedure will require a lot of planning to make it work. The benefits to doing it right include greatly increased tire life as well as more consistent performance and durability under stress. Please make an effort to educate your team on the importance of this. It can save you a lot of money.

The Hoosier D.O.T. Radial tires are extremely good in dry conditions, however they don't make very good wet weather tires. Having dedicated rain tires available will be necessary for your team to be properly prepared. Hoosier makes a D.O.T. approved bias-ply tire called a "Dirt Stocker" that has been proven to be far superior to any competitors tire as long as it is a steady "wet" condition. Check with your Hoosier representative for size availability.
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Old 04-15-2004, 09:23 AM   #11
Luke@tirerack
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Quote:
Originally posted by uuarex
Luke, Order 7844296
Thanks
done .... but, since when has Wisconsin been a tropical island ???
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Old 04-15-2004, 09:29 AM   #12
RaceComp Engineering
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ASK ABOUT NEW RCE
SWAY BARS FOR STI

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
Proper break-in will not affect initial performance but will increase the competitive life of the tire.

The procedure can be broken down onto phases.

1st phase: The initial run
2nd phase: The length of the time the tire is allowed to "cure"
The initial run

The first laps for the tire are critical for setting up the durability and competitive life. The first session should consist of 10-15 minutes of running. The early part of the session should be run at an easy pace, with the speed gradually increased until the end of the session. The final lap should be run at the fastest possible speed. The intent is to achieve maximum tire temp on the last lap. At this point the car should be brought in and the tires allowed to cool at a normal rate. Optimally, the tires should be removed or have the car jacked up during this cooling.

During this process, the inflation pressure should be 3-5 psi higher than you would normally use. The best progression would have the driver taking 4-7 laps to accomplish this break-in. Each lap should be approximately 7-10 seconds a lap faster than the previous lap. The goal is to have the tire temp as high as possible on the last lap without "shocking" the tire during the warm up laps. In essence, no wheelspin, late braking, or sliding. The last lap should be at, or very close, the maximum possible.

"Cure" Time

After completing the above, the length of time the tire is allowed to set is possibly more important. The barest minimum for this process to be beneficial is 24 hours. (Not "the next day"). Any less than this is a waste of time. The best situation would allow a week before using the tire again.

Proper tire management is a difficult process. To accomplish this almost always requires a second set of wheels. The payoff is greatly increased competitive tire life.

Tire Pressure recommendations

Hoosier Tire typically require higher pressures than other brands.

Reference the following chart for suggested pressures:

Vehicle size recommended hot pressure / cold pressure

1800-2200 lbs 39-42 / 31-36
2200-2600 lbs 40-43 / 32-37
2600-3000 lbs 42-46 / 32-37
over 3000 lbs 43-48 / 32-38

+ Higher pressures will improve the performance capability but will require a more sensitive feel to take advantage of the increase.

One characteristic of the tires is the tendency to "skate" initially (when inflation pressures are correct). It is important to resist lowering the pressure to attempt to eliminate this feeling. Dropping the pressure may improve the "feel" of the tire however it will also lower the performance and increase the wear on the tire.

Tire temperature recommendations

For best performance the expected temperature range will vary from track to track. Generally, optimum traction will be generated when the pit lane temps show 180-200 degrees. Check with the tire technicians at the event for the recommendations for that particular track and car combination. Take advantage of the temperature checking station that will be set up during the practice session. Use of Hoosier technicians measurements eliminates variables in instruments and procedure which can influence the data.

Chassis setup recommendations

For optimum performance the tires will require around 3 degrees of camber. There will be a trade off in Max Performance to maximize wear. Generally 1/2 degrees less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees can result in excessive wear on the shoulder junction.

The tires should offer better performance with spring/shock rates higher than previous brands you may have run.

Things to consider

These tires are molded to their designed tread depth. They do not require shaving to be prepared for competition use. Shave the tire further will not improve performance. It is not recommended that they be altered in this manner.

Due to extremely light construction, the Hoosier tires have a much lower polar moment than other radial tires. This translates to a very low rotational mass, which is a good thing for performance applications. The down side to this feature is that the tires don't resist "spikes" in braking force as well as a heavier tire might. As a result, there is a tendency for drivers to "flatspot" a tire the first time really getting to the limit. Vehicles equipped with ABS will benefit from its use. If you do not use ABS it is recommended that you make an effort to minimize stabbing the brakes until you have some experience with the feel of the tire under hard braking.

The light construction also provides less protection from impact damage and punctures. Off course excursions or running over debris on the track will likely result in tire damage.

Tire tires are not directional, however the tread is asymmetrical in design. A new tire should be mounted with the two grooves on the inboard side. Once some wear has occurred it may be desirable to flip the tire on the wheel in order to even out the wear and maximize tire life.

Following the recommended break-in procedure will require a lot of planning to make it work. The benefits to doing it right include greatly increased tire life as well as more consistent performance and durability under stress. Please make an effort to educate your team on the importance of this. It can save you a lot of money.

The Hoosier D.O.T. Radial tires are extremely good in dry conditions, however they don't make very good wet weather tires. Having dedicated rain tires available will be necessary for your team to be properly prepared. Hoosier makes a D.O.T. approved bias-ply tire called a "Dirt Stocker" that has been proven to be far superior to any competitors tire as long as it is a steady "wet" condition. Check with your Hoosier representative for size availability.


I take it Luke had that paper with all those specs on it,..?????

Thats what I'm talking about................

Myles Williams
Racecomp Engineering LLC
www.racecompengineering.com

2720 Sisson st .
Baltimore, Md 21211
410-366-RACE (7223)
410-707-0108 cell
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Old 04-15-2004, 09:33 AM   #13
RaceComp Engineering
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Default 19 inch Corsa.

Luke can you see when the 235-35-19 will be available from Pirelli for you guys..................Corsa that is.

944 turbo guy
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:22 AM   #14
Luke@tirerack
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?????
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:40 AM   #15
RaceComp Engineering
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
?????

?????????????????????????????????????????????
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:42 AM   #16
RaceComp Engineering
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ok what I am asking is, can you check to see if the Pirelli Corse is available in a 235-35-19, well actually I know its available, the question is, can you get it, and if not, will you ever be able to get it.

myles

944tg
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Old 04-15-2004, 11:26 AM   #17
Luke@tirerack
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I do not know if Pirelli is bring it into The US at this time
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Old 04-15-2004, 11:27 AM   #18
RaceComp Engineering
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thanks..Luke.

944tg
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Old 04-16-2004, 02:49 AM   #19
uuarex
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
done .... but, since when has Wisconsin been a tropical island ???
Wisconsin isn't the tropical Island, but I'm not in wisconsin right now. Right now I am going through my Subaru withdrawals on Diego Garcia. Should be home soon though.
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