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Old 04-13-2004, 07:33 PM   #1
Jonnathan
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Default What is Wrong with my car ?

2000 RS, T3/T4 turbo, injectors, TEC2, 3" pipes, 8psi, cone filter, top mnt IC, boost controller. 30k miles on the car (10k turbod),
car has been running fine turbo'd for a couple years.

Several symptoms, there may be more than 1 problem, any ideas ?

symptom 1)
car runs pretty well when cold.
But once it warms up, it runs super-rough when cruising at constant revs, or very light throttle, bucking like a rodeo bull
Though it still idles, ok, and runs ok when at low revs/zero boost. when full on the gas, car seems smooth.

symptom 2)
Several times, the car just cut out while driving.... normal driving conditions, not driving fast, usually coming to stop, or easing off gas coming round a corner, it seemed like loose wires, would often start again after letting it sit for a minute or 2 and checking cables/connections under hood. Quite possibly flooded with gas, hence stalled.

symptom 3)
took it into tuner, who says, car running very rich. (explains stalling maybe)
after re-programming tec, seems much better, turn car off, and trying it shortly later, it was running super-rich again.
They inspected all the usual things, checked wiring, changed air sensor, checked all TEC sensors yet still the same tuning/reset issue.
So they concluded the TEC was faulty, sent it to electromotive.
Electromotive tested the TEC..for a looong time, said the TEC seems to be fine.

so has anyone else had any problem like this ?
or can suggest any likely causes ?

any suggestions appreciated
thanks
Jon
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:06 PM   #2
cRayZee
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do you have gauges?

EGT, air/fuel, or some datalog runs?
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:17 PM   #3
MeshmeZ
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im just going to take some guesses here but im thinking maybe:
1) Spark plugs arent firing or are weak
2) injectors are having issues.

if one of your cylinders isnt firing it would cause rough running and the unburnt fuel would cause it to show rich. I assume they were already checked but i figured i would throw it in just in case. thats the only thing i can really think of considering it is running rich. if it were lean we have a whole list of reasons to go through

hope you figure it out.

BTW are you running stock internals on your engine/tranny? im trying to get info about reliability of stock turboed rs's
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Old 04-14-2004, 02:14 AM   #4
kaos200
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bring it down to me and pay me to tune it
edit, check ur injectors, injector wiring harness (make sure its not grounding out)
spark plug wires
spark plugs!
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Old 04-22-2004, 05:52 PM   #5
Jonnathan
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sorry it took me a while to get back to you guys, been busy... though not with car : (

yes I have EGT gauge and can plug Laptop into TEC2 to tune and monitor engine functions as its driven / dyno'd.
Aparently it runs fine for periods of time, then goes rich again, for no clear reason. The tuner reported no weird readings except for rich.

they say they have checked wiring for grounding, all related sensors.

yes, my initial feelings were wiring. Most likely the spark wires from the TEC2 to the sparks.

Yes everything is stock internals

Kaos, do you run a shop ? or just tune for fun ?

thanks for comments, much appreciated
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:19 PM   #6
MeshmeZ
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have the injectors themselves been checked though?
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:50 PM   #7
Jonnathan
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I'm just trying to get in contact with them to get a definitive list of things they checked...

Wouldn't clogged injectors make it go lean though ? how can faulty injectors make it go rich ?

I don't suppose anyone has a TEC2 lying around that I could borrow for a day so we can swap with mine to confirm or deny for sure wether its the TEC computer or not ?

Last edited by Jonnathan; 04-22-2004 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:32 PM   #8
boysetsfire
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Would a faulty o2 sensor cause something like this? Since you say it runs fine when cold you would be running in open loop and then once the o2 sensor warmed up closed loop.

-Marc
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:55 PM   #9
yamarocket630
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Checked compression lately?
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:11 PM   #10
Jonnathan
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I know for sure, they have checked all TEC2 related sensors (O2, EGT, Intake temp), and replaced MAP/MAF sensor just in case (as I had previously blown 2)

I think they allready checked wiring, for grounding/shorts and bad connections to/from the tec.

Assumed they have checked sparks, and spark wires. but I'm not 100% sure on that, or injectors though.

how about fuel pump ? (guessing game)

I dont know if they checked compression, but they are compiling a full list of things they have checked for me today. Should hopefully get to post it here tonight, or tomorrow morning.
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Old 04-22-2004, 11:34 PM   #11
Pi7467mp
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faulty O2 sensor?
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:31 AM   #12
Jonnathan
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This is what they checked since the TEC came back

Wiring and continuity
Grounds
MAP sensor
Idle control valve
Boost control solenoid
Boost leaks

Though I think they checked more items before they sent the TEC off.... but will have to wait till tomorrow to ask them again about that.
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Old 04-27-2004, 03:29 PM   #13
Jonnathan
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well they are gonna try replacing the Tec with a Link next week.
(they say links are on back order till next week)
anyone know where can get hold of one today, in LA ?

also gonna replace sparks, although they seem to look OK.

They say car is running bad, when off-boost, slight vacuum, at cruising speeds/revs.
But is ok at idle.

They are also gonna try adding fuel pressure meter after the fuel pump.

but no real progress : (
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:08 PM   #14
kaos200
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why dont you try tuning the tec before selling it and moving onto the link, its like starting from scratch?
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:16 PM   #15
jetfan8178
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Fuel pump??
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:18 PM   #16
luvmyrs
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try replacing the coil packs and see if that helps. also, what is are your TPS/MAP acceleration Settings? I found that too aggressive of a acceleration/deceleration value will do what you are describing.
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Old 04-27-2004, 09:48 PM   #17
Jonnathan
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Quote:
why dont you try tuning the tec before selling it and moving onto the link, its like starting from scratch?
they have tuned the tec, occasionally it runs fine, but then later, it goes rich again, and starts playing up. Very inconsistent.
The tuner has tuned the tech for me many times before without such problems
yes I'd rather not replace the tec, unless proven to be broken.
and Electromotive say it was fine after they tested it.

Quote:
Fuel pump??
yes, I've suggested this too, and they are checking it with pressure meter, but I havn't got results yet.

Quote:
try replacing the coil packs and see if that helps. also, what is are your TPS/MAP acceleration Settings? I found that too aggressive of a acceleration/deceleration value will do what you are describing.
I'll suggest coil packs to them, thanks for the idea
if you have the wintec2 software, I'll send you the whole last engine map file. Though they might have tweaked it since last time.

I'll get the previous TPS/MAP settings, and try to get hold of the new ones they have tuned it to

thanks all
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:13 PM   #18
Jonnathan
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The car has only been tuned once since this date, so its probably similar settings to these, but it ran ok for the last year on these settings.
The car hesitation (& more recently jolting), got progressively worse over last couple of months

june 2003 tps/map accel
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Old 04-28-2004, 01:45 AM   #19
kaos200
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if you want to send me the tec Ill plug it into my car with my map and see if it runs ok?
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:16 AM   #20
Jonnathan
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pm'd ya
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Old 04-28-2004, 08:14 PM   #21
Jonnathan
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looks like they have possibly found problem, though not confirmed & isolated yet.

They say, that they have a bad reading coming from the crank sensor...
that if the car is revved under load on the dyno, when it gets to about 3000 revs or so, it suddenly starts giving readings of 5500+ revs !
(outside the map rev range)

So could be a bad sensor, bar wires, or interference/ induction/ shorts. Or an internal part of the TEC broken relating to that sensor connection.
Something related to after the car warms up. Maybe sensor gets hot, or TEC does.

The TEC setup works out timing, off of a disc, with cogs on the crank, behind the main pulley. Teh disc has teeth, and a sensor which detects the teeth as they move past.

I'll update, as I know more.
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Old 04-28-2004, 08:21 PM   #22
luvmyrs
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could the crank trigger be of center/loose from the crank pulley? That would explain your problem. Have you checked to make sure that the air gap between the wheel and the pickup are in tollerance?
When my pickup went, the car would'nt even start. hmmmmmm
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Old 04-28-2004, 08:32 PM   #23
Jonnathan
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Quote:
could the crank trigger be of center/loose from the crank pulley? That would explain your problem. Have you checked to make sure that the air gap between the wheel and the pickup are in tollerance?
that is entirely possible, I'll call them, and suggest checking those things

thanks
Jon
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Old 05-04-2004, 06:55 PM   #24
Jonnathan
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ok, I'm back with more news....
it looks like the problem is the TEC2 after all, now it only intermittently talks to the laptop when tuning

sigh....

I don't wanna buy another TEC2, or TEC3 for that matter
Electromotive took 3 weeks analysis to say there was nothing wrong with it.
so I may go for a Link this time

at least things are happening now, so hope to get car back in about a week (with any luck)

thanks for all the help and suggestions
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Old 05-04-2004, 07:36 PM   #25
luvmyrs
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that sucks man... I hear you about the Electromotive products though. Great product, but support is soo limited, that it offsets the value of the product.
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