Best cams for 2.5RS

[powerlabs]

I have a '99 2.5 RS with full exhaust and CAI and I'm looking for more power; I know Cobb and Rallitek both make cams for my car; are there any differences between the cams they make? What is the best streetable cam in your opinion? I did a search and saw that a lot of people use the Cobb spicy cam; is it that much better than their street cam, which I could keep if I decided to go turbo later?

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[nySulli]

dont forget TWE

[kastkc]

From what Ive heard, the cobb cams arent the best choice if you plan to go turbo later. Not sure about the TWE's. Also Cobb cams wont be CARB legal if your concerned about that. Iam also thinking of getting the cobb cams.

[Section 8]

Any "stage 1" type cam you can use for turbo. TWE regrinds the cam to a smaller base crcle, and takes advantage of the valve adjustment to make up the difference. Cobb welds extra material onto their cams and regrinds them to a factory base circle.

People will tell you that you cannot use a Cobb spicy cam for turbo applications. There are the same type people who say that raising the redline on a NA 2.5 is pointless. With the proper modifications, BOTH are viable modifications.

I was going to use Spicy cams for a turbo build. I wanted a high RPM car with lots of HP while sacrificing torque. Spicy cams would be good for an 7,500 RPM redline or more, with 16 on up psi of boost. The Spicy cam is not a "radical" NA cam. It still runs on the stock ECU, and idles at 500 RPM with a 9.5 pound flywheel. I wanted this to limit torque transfer to the transmission to aid the longevity of the gears. THe Spicy cams would provide power at 3,000 RPM and really get going at 4,000, so a large turbo would also be viable (because putting boost to it less than 3,000 wouldn't work so hot with the valve overlap).

I have read so many times that Spicy cams are BAD for turboing. In a stock engined car, yes, they are, but if you are really doing a turbo build and not adding a turbo to a stock engine, then Spicy cams are a legitimate choice.

For all the wankers out there who regurgitate other asshat's posts, I recomend that you call cobb and ask them about a high boost, high RPM application of spicy cams. For all the putzes stuck inside of the box, and can't or won't research things themselves (these are the same people who worship everything Cobb), this came out of Trey's own mouth after I spend significent time investigating the possibility myself.

It all depends what you want to have, and have money to build. You will not be able to use Spicy cams with a turbo kit before you build the block, and add real engine management.

cheeRS,

Greg

[powerlabs]

Thank you for the knowledgeable replies.
Neverminding the turbo for now, it seems to me as though the spicy cams shift the power band up higher; I definitely want more power, but I want this power to be able to accelerate the car faster, not to be able to hold a higher top speed; I.E. The low end torque is important to me. As such would spicy cams be a bad idea? Would Cobb street cams be my best bet on that or is there a better one?

[SubaruStu]

Ask at spda-online.ca. One of their sponsors is Japan Automotive who has done
custom cams for the RS/Legacy. I have a set and am very happy. Depending on
where in Vermont you are, you may want to make a long weekend
trip to Toronto. They are inbetween the Cobb mild and spicy cams and I
believe that at least one person (JoeT) at spda-online has turbo'd them,
but I am not 100% sure. Joe can give the details if you ask nice


Cheers...Stu

[Section 8]

If you have an automatic transmission, Spicy cams would not be such a hot idea. If you are inept with a stick shift, and can't keep your revs over 2000 RPM, get the street cams. Power is well on its way by 3000 RPM and roaring at 4000, with plenty of puttering torque available at 2,000 with the spicy cams. Below 2,000 RPMs they are anemic, you will still accelerate, it just feels like you are driving with your parking brake pulled up a notch or two.

A Cobb style intake, spicy cams, SYMS headers, and a 2.5 inch exhaust with 60 pounds less weight runs a 14.6 in the quarter mile. When accelerating hard, you shift at redline. Your revs never drop below 4,000 RPM. Low end torque is important to you if you slam the accelerator down at 1,500 RPMs and intend to go anywhere fast. Spicy cams have plenty of midrange torque for day to day driving.

If you can't live with a CEL, then get the Street cams.

Low end torque is also a bit of overblown importance. If you divide the power band into three segments, low, mid, and hig, low end is 2,083 RPM and below. Video tape your instrament panel sometime and see how much low end acceleration you actually need on a daily basis. You will find that the trade off for torque from 5,000 RPM to redline is worth the trade for the off idle grunt. If you take off fast you slip the clutch a bit, and your RPMs will be above 2,000 RPM. Every time.

The time that you miss is is in bumper to bumper traffic. I happen to have a lightweight flywheel (9 pounds) and it makes it even worse to inch forward in traffic. If you spend a good portion of your day in lousy traffic, also concider the street cams.

cheeRS,

Greg

[powerlabs]

Wow, so much useful information! Thanks a lot! I saw a post at SPDA about getting the cams for $350 dollars. Now that is a deal! No info about what company sells them though; where did you get yours from SubaruStu?
Section 8: I have a manual transmission; the only reason I rate low end torque as being important is because my car gets pretty loud when I rev it high, and I don't like sounding like a honda getting the thing up to 6000RPM to have it accelerate decently :-/
The set up is Borla headers / high flow cat / borla catback (not too loud) with a Rallitek J tube intake (LOUD). I'm getting it changed into an Injen CAI. Hope the Injen is quieter; right now my intake is much louder then the exhaust past 4000RPM.

[SubaruStu]

Originally posted by powerlabs
Wow, so much useful information! Thanks a lot! I saw a post at SPDA about getting the cams for $350 dollars. Now that is a deal! No info about what company sells them though; where did you get yours from SubaruStu?
Section 8: I have a manual transmission; the only reason I rate low end torque as being important is because my car gets pretty loud when I rev it high, and I don't like sounding like a honda getting the thing up to 6000RPM to have it accelerate decently :-/
The set up is Borla headers / high flow cat / borla catback (not too loud) with a Rallitek J tube intake (LOUD). I'm getting it changed into an Injen CAI. Hope the Injen is quieter; right now my intake is much louder then the exhaust past 4000RPM.

The company/tuner is Japanese Automotive (a.k.a. Yoshio) in Toronto. The
web (but not all that useful) is www.japanese-auto.com.You are best to post
on spda-online. One of the co-founders of the board was the one who prompted
the development of them through Yoshio (JoeT). He can give you all the info you
are looking for. They are reputed to be inbetween Cobb's mild and spicy cams,
in terms of their "aggresiveness". I also had my ECU reprogrammed (by Yoshio)
to take full advantage of all of my mods and the cams. My advice, is to do your
homework. While I endorse Yoshio and his work, there are others who haven't been
as pleased for various reasons. Everything worked out just fine in my case, and I
was pleased with the workmanship and results.

Cheers...Stu

[obyone]

I'm getting TWE street cams installed as we speak. I'll let you know how they turn out after I take my car in for emmissions testing.

[powerlabs]

I e-mailed COBB with the following question:

"I plan on using the car for auto-x mostly and I need it to accelerate faster; which cams do you recommend; the street cams or the spicy cams? The goal here is to get the car to accelerate faster but the full exhaust and intake make it quite loud, so if I have to rev it high all the time to get good performance I will be constantly running into trouble with the local police... I guess the real question is: Does the extra HP the spicy cams make come at the cost of a lot less low end torque?"

To which Noah replied:

"We recommend the Street Cams unless you are planning to have head work done."

I think I'll go with his advice. Head work is simply not worth the $3000+ it will cost me when I plan to sell the car in less than 2 years. So now it looks like my upgrade path will be CAI, Full exhaust, Street cams and some kind of ECU upgrade (reflash, AFC/ITC or Unichip".
Any comments?

[Scott F. Williams]

Approximately how many hours does it take to swap cams in our heads? I'm not about to port my heads for goo gobs of money, but... I could certainly swing $350 for a set of these Yoshio cams! That is... unless the installatino is going to cost me an arm and a leg.

Yeah, how much should this operation cost? -roundabouts?

Thanks,

[powerlabs]

I was quoted $600 from Stacy Subaru in Brattleboro VT. They do a great service but damn, $600?!?
I think I'll try a non Subaru mechanic, but I understand that doing cams is rather delicate and I definitely don't want someone screwing it up for me...
I think they said it would take an estimated 10 - 12 hours.
I also wonder if it would be worth replacing the head gaskets while I'm at it... Appearently the ones on the '99 are flawed and there is a redesign out there that is better.

[jasona]

Don't forget Paeco has cams for our cars at $210 with core exchange.

[subyrs555]

hope this helps... i have cobb street cams and love them.. they will be perfect for a later street turbo setup and you dont have to spend alot of money on other engine part when you decide to do the turbo.. got my cams installed at FIS in McKinney TX and when one of the cam bolts stripped and had to pull of the driver side head they were very fair in price and the install was perfect. Keep in mind after 1000-2000 miles after install you will need to have your valve lash reset and that may cost you more $$. Steve and Jason at FIS were very cool and worked with me alot to get this done. call them at 9723462401 or fi-systems.com

[powerlabs]

Well the problem is that I am in Upper Peninsula Michigan; the nearest part of civilization to me is Milwaukee, 6 hours away, Chicago is 7hours away, Detroit 8, etc... So going to California (23 hour drive) is most definitely not an option
I'm just hoping I can get it done locally or in Marquette...

[obyone]

Originally posted by powerlabs
Well the problem is that I am in Upper Peninsula Michigan; the nearest part of civilization to me is Milwaukee, 6 hours away, Chicago is 7hours away, Detroit 8, etc... So going to California (23 hour drive) is most definitely not an option
I'm just hoping I can get it done locally or in Marquette...

That's too bad. I know two experience techs, they work for dealer service shops, that can do the work for roughly $200. Oh yeah, it's supposed to be near to 8 hours worth of work. Plus, you'll have to take them back for valve lash adj. after 50miles because the cams break in.

[Tim Sanderson]

Bring it over. I can do it for you. I live @ 45 minutes north of Milwaukee. P.m. me if interrested.

[Matt Monson]

Originally posted by nySulli
dont forget TWE

The ones Rallitek sells are TWE's cams...



I wish I could provide some first hand experience but my Cobb stage II heads have been on order for 6 months and I was told last week it should be one more...