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Old 05-09-2000, 08:52 AM   #1
Mr. Gasket
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Post Broken Borla Header

Just FYI; I have a Borla header that broke before the last collector, I auto-X it and push it hard, I guess that if you do that, the vibration of this pipe makes it break. i suggest to weld a small brace 3 inches before the collector.
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Old 05-09-2000, 09:19 AM   #2
8Complex

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Hey, how long did you have it on the car? And how many autocrosses did you have on it (roughly)? I'm assuming this is an RS, correct?
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Old 05-09-2000, 09:29 AM   #3
Mr. Gasket
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I have a 99RS with Koni-Eibach suspension, Toyo Proxes T1-s (by the way they suck for auto-X, they are even close on grip to the t1 plus), header, highflow cat, 2.25 exhast and a Dynomax muffler, fuelpress. regulator (41PSI) and a cone filter with the stock air box.
I have race it 5 times and 2 with the Borla. I had a Corolla GTS before with a TRD header that had also to be welded for racing as they would break under stress, so I guess this Borla also needs a brace welded.
Remember that that last pipe is very long and may be vibrating at a different pace than the rest...

Jose
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Old 05-09-2000, 10:41 AM   #4
8Complex

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Above: Borla headers.

Very true... I do wonder if the SPD one would be different.


Above: SPD Headers.

Not sure if those are for sale yet or not, though. Checked their page and couldn't find a thing about them.

[This message has been edited by 8Complex (edited May 09, 2000).]
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Old 05-09-2000, 10:51 AM   #5
ColinL
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That second header pic, wherever you got it, better not exist in real life.

That's a horrible design, just plumbing the R bank into the left with no merge collector.
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Old 05-09-2000, 11:15 AM   #6
Catfish
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Exclamation

This brings up my point from several days ago. The Borla headers seems like a very poor design from my viewpoint. It doesn't have equal length runners and no merge collector to speak of. What's the point of installing a header, if it's not tuned? Equal length primaries are the way to go, on any header design. Anything less is just a waste of time.

Just look at the routing for the passenger side cylinder bank on the Borla. That's an awful long way for those gasses to travel, and then 'merge' at the very end right into the CAT. I'd REALLY like to see some verified hp increase #'s from actual dyno tests on this to see just how well it performs. I've seen lots of headers, and I'm very sceptical that the Borla actually improves performance.

Colin...
The SPD looks MUCH better than the Borla IMO. It has much more equal length primaries, and somewhat of a merge collector. It can use some more work, but it's a good start. It's a pretty bad pic, so it's hard to see all the details, but I agree that dumping the right side into the left primary isn't the way to go, maybe that's why he's redesigning it?

Skeptical about Borla headers Dave
'00 2.5RS Sedan
'72 Datsun 240Z with proper headers.


[This message has been edited by Catfish (edited May 09, 2000).]
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Old 05-09-2000, 11:41 AM   #7
8Complex

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ColinL - If you check out the <a href="http://208.9.184.67/">Impreza-RS.com</a> aftermarket section and check out Engine --&gt; Headers, you'll see it right there. I don't know if they are in existence or not, or even being tested, but you're right, they look like they can use some work.

To me, it looks like they would be very hot in the section that it doubles back, and that the backpressure is a little high because of that union between left and right sides. However, I do think that they would be decent in the way of equal-length since the left and the right sides are about the same up to the joining of them and the front to rear join is further down the chain, less likely to cause air collision (term? I have no clue).

Now why that first port closest to us goes out and then back in, I have no idea. Is there something there like the oil filter?
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Old 05-09-2000, 11:55 AM   #8
boxerman
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Primary tubes in a header don't flow exhaust like a hairdrier blows air. Exhaust comes out in pulses. I would think that the SPD design is taking advantage of the timing between the left and right pulses to scavenge the other side.

It is very difficult to judge a header by casual visual inspection and generalizations like equal legnth headers are always better are not useful. Sometimes equal legnth is best sometimes 4 into one, sometimes 4 into 2 into one etc.

Think about the differences between dual exhaust setups; one with a balance pipe and one without. The balance pipe design will give better low end torque because of the scavenging effect yet, will still produce good high RPM power.

I can't tell just by looking at them if the SPD headers are a good design.

Just my .02
Tim
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Old 05-09-2000, 11:57 AM   #9
ColinL
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Post

Catfish, I agree... if I had to pick from one of those two designs, I'd pick the second one. Lesser of two evils and all that.

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Old 05-10-2000, 12:04 AM   #10
Mr. Gasket
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Exclamation

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm happy with my Borla header.
It's only the first design, i know that later someone will make a better one.
As for the skeptics, you do not need equal lenght primaries some times. As long as the design permits the exhaust pulses to get one behind the other (real reason) in order, then such design will work. keep in mind the speed and backpressure (pipe diameter) and you'll have a header that works.
Mine is given me a little torque, not as much as the catback though.

Jose
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Old 05-10-2000, 12:51 AM   #11
nativo
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Talking

For those of us that have been in the STI mailing list for over a year know that the SPD/Stromung Header (the second picture)was designed and after tested did showed any performance on the Dyno. For that reason SPD aborted the project and the header was never sold. After that SPD started their second project with Borla and pulled out of that one also.
Apperently did not performed as expected but Borla went ahead with the project anyway and we all bought their product. As far as we know their designed has been improved but not by much. It will now clear the crossmember and the secondary pipe from the passenger side will have a diferent shape.
The are also working on a Catback exclusively for the 2.5RS.
That's all we know so far,
Thanks,
Nativo

[This message has been edited by nativo (edited May 09, 2000).]
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Old 05-10-2000, 06:47 AM   #12
Bud-Man
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Have a Nice Day?

Mr Gasket, your not the only one thats had the Borla header fail. Mine broke in exactly the same place as yours!! Only I don't autocross. I don't feel that I really even push my car (hell I'm still running the stock RE92's, so I can be going that fast!!).
I wondered if the header was hitting the crossmember under throttle causing a stress point in that area. I contacted Borla who said they have never heard of this problem before, and they are sending me a new set free of charge. The only problem is that it's been 3 weeks already!! Like you I actually like the headers, I'm just disappointed that it's taking so long. I hope this problem isn't a cronic one.
Have you call Borla to complain?
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Old 05-10-2000, 02:08 PM   #13
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Jose,
Actually, I could have repaired them myself but I wanted to see what Borla had to say about the problem. They promptly told me not to screw with it, just put the broken item in the box the new system came in and ship it back. Besides, I'd heard that they had revised the system to allow for more clearance and a few other things. The way I see it, their warranty should cover it anyway, as I didn't do any thing that should cause the system to break.
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Old 05-10-2000, 10:02 PM   #14
ravent
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Cool

For three weeks Borla told me they were out of SS pipe for my headers but when they came
I would get the most up to date design...
that was a month ago. When I put them on they hit the suspension and were very low quality, but, the sound they give (w/ the borla cat back exhaust) is music to my ears.
DON'T BUY BORLA unless you have to and it seems now we have to:-)
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Old 05-11-2000, 12:45 AM   #15
Mr. Gasket
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Yes, the header was touching the crossmember but i fixed it right away, I don't think it was the cause for it to break.
I'm surprised that Borla offered you a new set just becasue yours broke...anyway maybe you should find a comfortable place to wait
The fix was easy and I know i'll not beak again.


Jose
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Old 05-11-2000, 01:35 AM   #16
NickSTi
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Post

When did you all get your headers? group buy from comp design like me too? I got mine in like mar and they have been in since then. I think they are working funny so I am not surprised if mine broke too. I am too scared to check! I wonder if that is why the check engine light is on for me. hmmmmmmmm.
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Old 05-11-2000, 06:57 AM   #17
Bud-Man
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Unhappy

Ravent, That's not encouraging news for me. How long ago did you order your headers??

NickSti, I got mine through Comp. Designs way back around the turn of the year. I never had a CE light, even after the header broke. I new when it happened because I started the car to go home from work and it sounded like someone disconnected the tail pipe!!! Way loud. Before that I thought I was leaking at the header/CAT junction and had just bought a new gasket that I was going to install that night. It's pretty obvious when the pipe breaks.
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Old 05-11-2000, 09:14 PM   #18
NickSTi
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hmm i think mine are fine then. i got mine like 2 months late from comp design! around mar when u all got yours in feb. I do not know about the CE light, i wonder if it only because I have a 2000 and its running really rich. I KNOW thats the reason actually
My gass mileage has plummeted )I would say like 10mile/gal bad!) but I am too lazy to install the afc to fix it right now.
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Old 05-12-2000, 09:43 PM   #19
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Have a Nice Day?

Boy! you must have a lot of gas money!! Can't wait until I graduate! five more weeks and I won't have to worry about gas. just which mods to add to my new scooby!
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