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Old 05-10-2000, 01:37 PM   #1
cOz
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Post Foaming an Impreza?

In the latest issue of SCC (p236)the project 300ZX was foamed. I had never heard of such a thing but it looks really cool. The product is called foamseal, it is basically a special structural foam that is injected into the main members of the chassis (they injected it into the rocker panels and frame rails). The article said there are many choices of foam stiffness and they choose mild degree of stiffening (2 pound per cubic foot)foam which increased stiffness by 40% and it can make your chassis up 300% stiffer by using a higher density 10 pound foam. They go on to say if you are a slalom racer, road racer, have a lowered car, or just want a smoother ride foaming is an easy worthwhile mod.

Has anyone ever tried this? Are there substabtial draw backs in accidents etc? This sounds too good. Lower road noise, smoother ride, minimal weight added, better suspension response, less creaks, etc, etc.

Maybe this is a cure for our sqeeeeky sun roofs. J/J

cOz

[This message has been edited by cOz (edited May 10, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by cOz (edited May 10, 2000).]
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Old 05-10-2000, 02:05 PM   #2
OBSS
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Question

If someone does have an answer to this good question, please include in your post:
The "weight" of the foam. For example "10lbs".

and

The correct locations to inject.

Thanks in advance

Adam
97OBS


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Old 05-10-2000, 06:06 PM   #3
cOz
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I think I should have named this thread "Make your chassis 300% stiffer" That would get more attention.

cOz
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Old 05-10-2000, 11:17 PM   #4
thepas
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Well, the only Foam I have used in a car is for audio reasons. it made the car a lot quieter inside and less rattles to. . .


Kyle
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Old 05-11-2000, 12:05 AM   #5
rrsettgast
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WTF?...300% stiffer....from foam? If you believe that, then I have a pretty red bridge to sell you. It used to be known as the "Golden Gate Bridge" but it is now known as Randy's Bridge. For the small price of say......a turbo kit, it can be yours!!

But seriously. I guess anything is possible, and filling in holes with weaker material has a much larger effect than one would think. BUt 300%??? That is a little too much for me to believe.

Randy
The Proud owner of a big red bridge
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Old 05-11-2000, 07:10 AM   #6
RallyGuy2k
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Hey Shiv...
What do ya think?
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Old 05-11-2000, 08:20 AM   #7
CNC84
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Cool

I have seen it done for car audio reasons and if the person knows what he/she is doing I could see the benefits. But if too much foam is sprayed in between the panels it will expand alot and the panel will look warped and bloated don't know if anyone wants to risk that. Maybe instead of getting the 22B fender flares you can just spray tons of foam in the front fenders and into the rear quarter panels
Chris
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Old 05-11-2000, 08:37 PM   #8
cOz
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This foam is stuctural foam and Im sure is very different than the foam used in the audio world for sound insulation.

The article said that some manufactures like Infinity use it in their flagship models. It also said the foam used in the project was recomended for repair to these cars.

Did anyone else read this article and find it very interesting? I really think this should be explored a little more.

cOz

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Old 05-11-2000, 10:01 PM   #9
Patrick Olsen
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I found the idea to be very interesting. My other car is an '89 Mustang GT convertible, which is FAR from a sturdy chassis. I've added some chassis stiffening braces (made a noticeable difference), and will soon install a 6 point rollbar (should make a huge difference I think). I'd be interested in finding out more about this procedure for the Mustang. I'm sure my Legacy could benefit as well, but not as much as the flexi-flyer convertible would.

I didn't pick up the magazine, just browsed through it on the newsstand - did they say how much the stuff cost? I saw that they used 5 kits (as I recall) for the 300Z, so if the stuff is expensive that would add up pretty fast.

Pat Olsen
'99 Legacy 2.5GT 5 speed sedan, '89 blown and intercooled Mustang GT convertible
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Old 05-11-2000, 10:06 PM   #10
shiv
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I'm skeptical but anything is possible. Our tech editor, Dave Coleman, plans to put structural foam to the test in the near future. Real measurements and stuff.

Shiv
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Old 05-12-2000, 07:11 AM   #11
Opie
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Keep us informed Shiv, I have been watching this post with interest all week. I am interested on cost, improvement to the torsional stiffness of the chassis, ease of application, etc. Any review good or bad would be very helpful.
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Old 05-12-2000, 07:57 AM   #12
Tim K.
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Shiv,

Is it safe to let Mr. Coleman loose with any type of foaming substance? While I don't harbor any doubts about his technical expertise, I do remain skeptical of his "judgement" in some situations.

I can almost envision office chairs made less flexible with applications of foam, coffee cups made rigid (and useless), computers rendered impervious to vibration, office drawers filled to max capacity, and worse - much worse.

Just a word of caution. Be prepared to retaliate if any questionable "foamings" occur at the office.

Keep us posted,

Tim
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Old 05-12-2000, 08:10 AM   #13
ColinL
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FYI, some cars have the frame already foam-filled. Usually this is aluminum spaceframe / monocoque designs like the Audi A8.

IMO, engineers aren't stupid and foam isn't expensive. Most likely if big gains were to be realized (with no risks) the foam would already be there. But I'm curious about his results anyway.
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Old 05-12-2000, 08:42 AM   #14
8Complex

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ColinL - I've met some prtty dumb engineering in my time.... LOL, No really - I think that it might transfer more road vibration and they wouldn't want this, plus foam DOES cost something and since they went so far as to cut the cost of the f**king trunk light and switch, I'd expect every teeny tiny corner cut that they could.

In truth, what Subaru needs is a plant in the US making Impreza's... talk about cost reduction, they wouldn't have to import them anymore and al lof a sudden they'd be priced like Civic's. Honestly, there is very little difference in the engineering of our cars to Hondas, except the fact that ours are made out of the country and have to be imported. The materials are the same, if not cheaper in the Impreza (soft plastics, cheap tires) so I'd expect it to cost a lot less then it does now, personally. *shrug*
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Old 05-12-2000, 08:51 AM   #15
Thug
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Road Race Engineering did this to one of their cars, but they said the added weight was probably not worth the added stiffness.
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Old 05-12-2000, 09:12 AM   #16
Tyrmeltr
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I think they should just make everything out of NERF! NERF cars, NERF guard rails, NERF telephone poles, NERF trees, NERF deer etc. you get the idea. Forget stifness, let's make everyhting nice and soft to crash into! Canyon runs would be so much more enjoyable.HEHE

Seriously though, once they start putting foam in race cars, then I'll be a believer. Until then it's all aobut seam welding and caging. I believe Prodrive spends some 400+ manhours on a 22b shell to make it 3 times stiffer than stock. Then they bolt on all the unobtainium parts that make it a WRC.
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Old 05-12-2000, 10:33 AM   #17
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The foam used in stereo may not as different from this foam as you think. The stuff I used was EXTREMELY rigid and did an excellent job of ending rattles.

You did, however, have to watch how much of you put into the space you were occupying as it does expand.
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