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Old 04-22-2000, 02:24 PM   #1
8Complex

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Post Rear Sway Bar Endlink Comparison

I recently had the chance to do this and during recent discussion, noone seemed too informed on the topic (except Greg and everyone who had his endlinks).

I've got comparison pics up as well as text describing what I saw in the links. I tried to stay as non-biased as I could but it was tough considering what I had to work with.

<a href="http://8complex.mwic.org/endlinks.html">My review.</a>

Enjoy.
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Old 04-22-2000, 02:51 PM   #2
Dave Read
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Nice pics and comparison. Driving impressions would make it complete...

_Dave_
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Old 04-22-2000, 03:01 PM   #3
8Complex

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Next time I catch Greg with his car I will make sure to get a feel for it, unfortunately unless I borrow the MRT links from him and test them on my own car, I won't be able to feel those since I don't know a single person that has them.
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Old 04-22-2000, 06:44 PM   #4
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Very nice, thank you for posting this. It's nice to see someone who doesn't have an axe to grind offer information.
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Old 04-22-2000, 06:49 PM   #5
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I just bought front and rear end links from mrt. I have not put them on yet but I will let you know when I get around to it.
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Old 04-23-2000, 08:56 AM   #6
8Complex

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Cool... I have front links coming from MRT as well from PK's group buy... I hope they make a difference because I was playing around with the front end and it's handling last night and it is rather pathetic. It is no wonder we need to 'Scandanavian Flick' these cars around corners... LOL
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Old 04-24-2000, 02:45 PM   #7
greg
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Thumbs up

8complex nice pics!!!!!! I just found this post!!!

Ok so how about this Ill give you the Mrt links for a comprehensive street test cough cough.And then you can drive my car to see the difference between the MRT links and mine.

While i have your attention how about some opinions from those who have bought these?

Also how about suggestions would you like to see a set of front ones made (it will motivate me to make some if i know a bunch of you want them).How about anodizing i can do that too the price will be slightly more but not much, so what colors do you guys want to see.

Any interst in spherical bearings i am putting those in for myself but if anyone is intersested let me know. The more suggestions you guys have the better the product i can produce for everyone.
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Old 04-24-2000, 03:09 PM   #8
Sammy
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Lightbulb

After looking at the endlink pics I got to thinking.. What if you twisted heavy gauge steel or copper wire around the OEM endlinks, that would stiffen them up some, wouldn't it? Another thing you might try doing is have them "bronzed" (like they do with baby shoes). Don't know where you would get this done though...
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Old 04-24-2000, 03:11 PM   #9
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Greg's Rear end links are the best! MRT's front links are the only ones available
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Old 04-24-2000, 03:17 PM   #10
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Here is something for you guys to think about. If "stiffer the better" phylosophy really applies to sway bar links, why even have them? Why all cars have them and sway bars are not directly attached to the control arms? No links will mean 0 flex, no?

Just a though...
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Old 04-24-2000, 03:31 PM   #11
ColinL
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I believe the stock nylon links are that way to minimize NVH.

A very rigid link plus a large diameter bar does limit the effectiveness of the independent suspension though.
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Old 04-24-2000, 03:33 PM   #12
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Alex,
I was just thinking that. The flexability is probably for some "slack" in the sway bar response. So if you have a stock sway bar - versus a 21 mm, you will still get roll (from links) up to a point. Once the links are tweaked enough, you start to "bend" the sway bar. So the artermarket links will give you more accurate responce, but will be much less forgiving than stock. Like anything, it is a trade-off. Of course, this is just a guess.

Randy
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Old 04-24-2000, 04:36 PM   #13
8Complex

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Imprezer - Greg and I had talked about this when we were looking at them and he had mentioned that he'd try flipping the control arm over to attach them directly, but the end towards the inside of the car was elliptical/oval and was for camber adjustment. He wasn't sure if it was possible but it would do the trick if it could be done. All you'd need then is a bolt and some bushings. It seems a little more risky then running a good set of beefy links to me, personally.
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Old 04-24-2000, 05:58 PM   #14
Revision
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You also lose a lot of "comfort" when you go with stiffer links. And we all know how much "comfort" is important to 99% of the american peoples.
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Old 04-25-2000, 06:34 AM   #15
Bud-Man
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Question

Hey guys, what about the control arm moving through an arc.....as it lifts up the mounting point will get farther away and pull the bar. I'm not sure what effect it has on the suspension performance or handling, but it seems as though it would make it a bitch to keep the bar aligned at the mounting point. I'd bet that you would develop a ton stress in the mounting components.
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Old 04-25-2000, 07:10 AM   #16
greg
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revision i think thats a false statment about loosing comfort with the links. For instance there is less body roll is that less comfort? there is more road feel is that less comfort?
Its a small trade off between plush and sport both are good just in the correct proportions for each indiviual. For those who have upgraded springs and shocks the stiffer links will compliment their suspension even more with better energy transfer and more precision and feel for the road. Basically comfort is a very relative term and we should not let subaru or others dictate what we should and should not feel as far as comfort. It should be used as a refernce but with a grain of salt. So lets not make these statement unless we all have numbers or equal comparisons to back these statments up. Its hard to explain suspension with out saying this is how stiff springs feel and having the physical car there to test drive. Thats why we should be much choosier with how we quantify our opinons. sorry for rambling and 9 am.
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Old 04-25-2000, 07:36 AM   #17
8Complex

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Bud-Man - That is the reason for the urethane bushings. If we connected them directly with a shohulder bolt and hit a good bump on one side of the car, it'd most likely snap the bolt.

Andrew - Ride may transfer a little more road noise and vibration but honestly, I prefer that to control.
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Old 04-26-2000, 10:29 PM   #18
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Question

How can I contact Greg about getting a set of his links? Does he have a website?

Thanks for the help! John
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Old 04-26-2000, 11:09 PM   #19
8Complex

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Sorry, my bad... Forgetting contact information, what is next? I updated the site with contact information just below the review. http://8complex.mwic.org/endlinks.html

Just as a side note, I will be getting together with Greg this weekend to do an actual driving comparison of the links on our cars, including a review of the MRT links (will be put onto my car in place of stock ones). I will post another thread if this one gets down too low (people lose interest in threads that they know what they are already, even if someone else responds).
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Old 04-27-2000, 06:40 AM   #20
greg
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Rova just email me if you are interested in the links. THanks
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Old 04-27-2000, 08:10 AM   #21
ravent
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Cool

I was just reading (I wish I could read it)a
Japanese Subaru magazine that has another set of links...The rears are similar to gregs
only a better finish...the fronts were heim joints (adjustable)so you could have any front swaybar you wanted.
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Old 04-27-2000, 08:18 AM   #22
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the endlink and swaybar are tied on to the lateral link. i bent mine one day after hoppin' over a dip. ouch! cusco has lateral link upgrade. $550 a piece i believe :d
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Old 04-27-2000, 09:10 AM   #23
greg
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hey ravent if you were looking at the PRova ones i can make an exact replica except the price will be and exact replica as well. LOL!!
Actually they are awesome but to machine something like that with such small quantaties would cost and arm and a leg. Thats why i try to stick to a very basic design. After all you wont really see them so thats where i cut costs...asthetics. I thought it would be better than cutting costs elsewhere. But i can anodize the links woth any color the only problem is that i need to do at least 6 at a time.
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Old 04-27-2000, 09:44 AM   #24
Fish
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has anyone observed any increased noise after installing the stiffer endlinks...
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Old 05-10-2000, 03:08 PM   #25
CM
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After taking out the stock links and looking at them, they seemed quite stiff already...
The Whiteline ones are only 20% stiffer. I think to actually feel a difference you need to get something completely solid like greg's.
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