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Old 04-20-2004, 11:34 AM   #1
silver04rs
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Default ecu flash or chip

i have on 04RS and was wondering if anybody makes a chip for my car or if i should have the ecu reflashed, and who does this. also what kind of power gains should i expect.

thanks for the help

Travis- The Gravel Crew
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Old 04-20-2004, 01:23 PM   #2
Section 8
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No. No "chips" or reflashing.

There is a "Torque Chip" that is wired in as a piggy back device. I don't know much about it, but it is not god's gift to 2.5 liters.


cheeRS,

Greg
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:42 AM   #3
ttboy19
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Cobb's got one coming out...sometime.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:06 PM   #4
Section 8
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Put it on the list with the Greedy header.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:11 PM   #5
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vaporware
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:28 PM   #6
Kevin Thomas
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Quote:
Originally posted by silver04rs
i have on 04RS and was wondering if anybody makes a chip for my car or if i should have the ecu reflashed, and who does this. also what kind of power gains should i expect.

thanks for the help

Travis- The Gravel Crew
www.gravelcrew.com
Travis,

ProECM Powerchip may have a chip for your car. ProECM.com
Expect 5-7hp gain. It's pretty linear and you probably won't feel it or notice it until you remove the chip. Don't expect the gain to be had until after a week or two after installation (or after a tank fuel of gas or two).
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Old 04-21-2004, 02:27 PM   #7
obyone
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Thomas
Travis,

ProECM Powerchip may have a chip for your car. ProECM.com
Expect 5-7hp gain. It's pretty linear and you probably won't feel it or notice it until you remove the chip. Don't expect the gain to be had until after a week or two after installation (or after a tank fuel of gas or two).

I've had one on my car...twice, and did not notice any gains, HP or fuel mileage. Your money would be better spent on other mods.

Last edited by obyone; 04-21-2004 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:53 AM   #8
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No gains? Did you do dyno runs? I've installed the chip and would very much like to see some dyno runs that proves or disproves the chip. But so far...all I hear are just butt dyno results. However, I did notice a slight jump in mpg.


Ben
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Old 04-22-2004, 05:45 AM   #9
Kevin Thomas
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Quote:
Originally posted by obyone
I've had one on my car...twice, and did not notice any gains, HP or fuel mileage. Your money would be better spent on other mods.
I didn't notice any power gains as well. I didn't believe there were any power gains so I took the chip off thinking it was a waste of money. It wasn't!

asusimpreza,

If you search the N/A forum for 'ProECM Powerchip', you'll come up with this thread started by me.
ProECM Powerchip Dyno Result

The dyno was the result of me removing the chip and redynoing my car. I actually thought I may have gained some hp/torque because I thought the chip wasn't doing anything. I was wrong. And I dyno'd my XT6 a LOT testing little things and the dyno's were pretty consistent. They didn't vary much week by week as much as the gain/loss that you see in the ProECM dyno chart.

I then tested what the chip was doing immediately after I put it back on. I reinstalled it and drove straight to the dyno shop. This was the result!
ProECM Dyno'd Reinstalled

As you can see, I lost some power but was slowly gaining some back run after run. I never actually got back the hp/torque that I had originally. That's not a fluke because I did some dyno runs before testing out the chip and they were consistantly high. It was only until I removed the chip that I noticed the big torque drop in my lower WOT rpm range. It was only AFTER I took the chip off after having it on for 2 years straight that I noticed a difference in my low end torque. Just putting the chip back on the car and driving, I didn't notice any difference. And there wasn't as it shows on the dyno. So that's why I say you have to drive it for a tank full or two (I say preferrably after 3 tank fulls) so the chip can 'teach' the ECU.

I don't know what the chip actually does. That's debatable! I do know after testing what the result I got was. I wasn't testing this to prove anything. I wanted to know myself what was up with the chip if anything. And these were the results I got. I can say that with the chip installed, my XT6 ran leaner (13.5:1 - 14.0:1) vs 12.5:1 without it.

Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 04-22-2004 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 11:18 AM   #10
Patrick L
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Quote:
Originally posted by Section 8
No. No "chips" or reflashing.

There is a "Torque Chip" that is wired in as a piggy back device. I don't know much about it, but it is not god's gift to 2.5 liters.


cheeRS,

Greg
Yes there is a reflash but it's not cheap.
http://www.japanese-auto.com/

I'll wait for Cobb's.
Be cool if they came out with an Accessport for the RS.

Last edited by Patrick L; 04-22-2004 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 04:26 PM   #11
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I looked at that link and didn't find anything. I even tried to e-mail them and you have to call them. Does anyone know what kind of gains they are getting with the flash and how much it is?

Yeah I'm tired of waiting for someone to develop a reflash for our car. I'm sure it wouldn't take that long to figure out or even just do.
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Old 04-22-2004, 04:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Thomas
I didn't notice any power gains as well. I didn't believe there were any power gains so I took the chip off thinking it was a waste of money. It wasn't!

asusimpreza,

If you search the N/A forum for 'ProECM Powerchip', you'll come up with this thread started by me.
ProECM Powerchip Dyno Result

The dyno was the result of me removing the chip and redynoing my car. I actually thought I may have gained some hp/torque because I thought the chip wasn't doing anything. I was wrong. And I dyno'd my XT6 a LOT testing little things and the dyno's were pretty consistent. They didn't vary much week by week as much as the gain/loss that you see in the ProECM dyno chart.

I then tested what the chip was doing immediately after I put it back on. I reinstalled it and drove straight to the dyno shop. This was the result!
ProECM Dyno'd Reinstalled

As you can see, I lost some power but was slowly gaining some back run after run. I never actually got back the hp/torque that I had originally. That's not a fluke because I did some dyno runs before testing out the chip and they were consistantly high. It was only until I removed the chip that I noticed the big torque drop in my lower WOT rpm range. It was only AFTER I took the chip off after having it on for 2 years straight that I noticed a difference in my low end torque. Just putting the chip back on the car and driving, I didn't notice any difference. And there wasn't as it shows on the dyno. So that's why I say you have to drive it for a tank full or two (I say preferrably after 3 tank fulls) so the chip can 'teach' the ECU.

I don't know what the chip actually does. That's debatable! I do know after testing what the result I got was. I wasn't testing this to prove anything. I wanted to know myself what was up with the chip if anything. And these were the results I got. I can say that with the chip installed, my XT6 ran leaner (13.5:1 - 14.0:1) vs 12.5:1 without it.
Your car is also an obd1, an obd2 you may see a slight gain but the ecu will learn it fast.
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Old 04-22-2004, 04:41 PM   #13
Pat L.I.
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worth noting at this point, i-speed is working on something aswell. I cannot remember where i saw it though. either rs25.com or i-club.com

Cobb was telling us that the rs reflash would be finished at the time the access port was released for the wrx. Well we obviously got the back burner on that one!

i have an apexi ITC (not installed) and a Safc2(installed but not tuned). I have played with the Safc2 slightly but i am shooting in the dark with a narrow band autometer a/f ratio gauge.

once i get cams installed i will have the itc and an egt guauge installed. then finally have the safc2 and itc tuned together.
while this is not an optimal solution it is essentially what a reflash or a chip does anyway adjusting timing and fuel. I truly hope cobb will release a reflash for us soon! that way i wont have to battle the stock ecu with piggybacks.

i think i just hit specialist today... please disregard that!! I am the furthest thing from a specialist!

Last edited by Pat L.I.; 04-22-2004 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 04:54 PM   #14
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Hi Pat,


I am going the exact same route as you; Installed an Injen CAI and a full exhaust (Borla headers and catback, Random Tech cat) to make the engine "breathe" easier, installing Cobb street cams to take advantage of the less restrictive intake and exhaust, and using an Apexi S-AFC to optimize the air/fuel ratio for performance. I will be installing the cams next month or so and then I am left with 3 choices:
1- Have the car dyno tuned with just the S-AFC and wait untill a reflash comes out, then probably re-tune...
2- Install an ITC and dyno tune that and the S-AFC and call it done.
3- Install a Unichip and dyno tune that and the S-AFC and call it done.
I have no idea which route I'll go as of now. I e-mailed Cobb about the cams and the reflash but no reply... What do you think of the ITC; think it'd be as good/better than a reflash?
Anyone have any experience with the Unichip? I know Dcoty had one, and said it was supposedly good with a mildly modded engine, but don't those things cost over a grand? I'd be better off with a complete engine management system for that price...
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Old 04-22-2004, 05:00 PM   #15
Pat L.I.
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PowerLabs - in number 3 you use the unichip in place of the Safc. I have no experience with the unichip but im pretty sure thats the case. I believe it allows you to play with timing and fuel.

i cannot give any impressions of the itc yet because it is sitting on my dresser at home. It looks nice though!!!!

like i mentioned earlier this is a far from optimal approach for me because of my odbII ecu. I will constantly be fighting against its learning capabilities. I am hoping that i will be able to tune Open loop (WOT) as i am not so much concerned with closed loop for agressive driving.

the cobb reflash would certainly be my best bet so that the target values can be re-mapped. but for now i will play with the piggy backs.
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pat L.I.
PowerLabs - in number 3 you use the unichip in place of the Safc. I have no experience with the unichip but im pretty sure thats the case. I believe it allows you to play with timing and fuel.
You can still use a SAFC with a unichip. Its just another piggybank altering maf or map voltage to the ecu. It might actually be nice for fine tuning.

Powerlabs-
You might want to look into a emanage as well, it will allow fuel and ignition tuning all from one box and gives you the ability to do data logging as well wich can be very useful. I would reccomend a link, but the price increase has made them too expensive IMO.
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Old 04-22-2004, 09:37 PM   #17
Kevin Thomas
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Quote:
Originally posted by Supraru
Your car is also an obd1, an obd2 you may see a slight gain but the ecu will learn it fast.
Learn it fast! Do you mean an OBDII ECU will learn around the ProECM Powerchip faster than an OBDI ECU? Remember, my chip had been on for 2 years (March 2002 - March 2004). Even if it's slow at learning, 2 years should've been sufficient time to have learned around the chip. Instead, I simply lost hp/torque when I removed it. If it learned around it, hp/torque after removal should've been the same or even worse.

I dunno! Best thing to do is try and test these things yourself. If you have a 1/4 mile dragstrip or dyno near you at your disposal, use it.
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Old 04-23-2004, 09:38 AM   #18
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Quote:
You can still use a SAFC with a unichip. Its just another piggybank altering maf or map voltage to the ecu. It might actually be nice for fine tuning.
Yup, that's the idea. I would set correction points at different RPMs from the Unichip and use the S-AFC for fine tuning in those ranges...
However with $300 spent on the S-AFC, and probably anothing $175 going into dyno tuning it with a wideband O2 sensor, I don't want to spend more than $500 on the ignition timing control (Unichip, ITC, Reflash, whatever)... I just don't see that great gains comming from it in a naturally aspirated engine to justify the big bucks...
In times like this I wish I had a turbo My friend "chipped" his Audi A-4 1.8LT and went from 150 to 195HP just like that... To make this kind of gains on an N/A car you need intake, exhaust, cams, etc etc...
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